How to find leaks ? Serious question

[TerryEspo]

Someone may think I am kidding, but seriously asking how to find the tricky leaks, not the ones you can hear from 2 ft away. I am reading that some people complain the leak is at their spile, their saddle, the Tee, etc.

What am I looking for to detect leaks ?
I see tiny bubbles sometimes on my spile where the tubing meets, it that a leak ?
Right after a Tee from a drop sometimes I see many rapid bubbles, not sure it is always like that, but sometimes for sure.

I do not have vacuum gauges at the end of all my laterals.

Seeking advice on how to detect air leaks please.
Anything at all to help me find the gremlins !!

Thanks.

Terry

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

I have clear reducers and run stubbys. If the sap is flowing fast on vacuum you have a leak. I bend my lats down at the loop next to the saddle on the main lines they should not be moving that fast it saves from walking every line/spout. If it is moving fast walk the line up and look for the squirrel hole, loose spout or what is creating the leak. The ones you hear a big ones. You have to look at the sap flow in your lines to detect small leaks. Bubbles are in lines no matter how tight gases from the trees cause some of them. It is all in the speed they travel. I try to compare spouts to the others and look for the faster moving bubbles and I have some three ways and four ways so I can compare three or four lines at once.

[VT_K9]

My hearing is not that great. I have vac. gauges on just a few laterals. I walk/drive around the bush looking for fast moving sap in the line (maybe it's the air moving fast). I follow that until I see it slow down. I found while using a new tap this year I had to use a little more effort to seat them than previous taps. I also found a T leaking. Small bubbles were forming near the barbs and upon flexing the tubing I was able to get them to stop. I let the tubing relax and they came back. I am going to replace the T. Maybe the cooler temps allowed this to happen and when it warms up it will be gone. I will have to find it again as I did not have a T or tool to replace the T with me at the time. I also found 2 leaky saddles. I replaced them and there is no further leak. Follow the fast moving sap and look for the bubbles. They are good indicators.

Mike

[Russell Lampron]

The tiny bubbles that you see at the fittings are micro leaks. If you look at where the air is leaking into the tubing you will probably find that the barbs were misaligned when the fitting was manufactured. You want to change that fitting and get rid of the leak. I have been finding several of that type of leak in my woods. Now that I'm not using Lapierre stubbies the number of leaks that I am finding is far less than it used to be. My biggest leakers this season are Lapierre T's. I am now using Leader CV2's and Leader cup T's. The build quality is much better.

Look for fast moving sap and air bubbles in the laterals as that will indicate a lateral with a leak. Follow the bubbles to the place where they stop or slow down and start looking there. Another thing that you can do is run your hand along the lateral line and feel for sticky spots. Squirrels and other animals will chew into the tubing and create a micro leak or worse. You can find manifold leaks the same way. If the temps are right you can also see frost at a leak or frozen sap in a lateral or drop.

Just fixing a handful of micro leaks will bring your vacuum level up. Happy hunting and good luck.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Isolating a leak is a pain. But what others have described should do the trick. The only thing I can add is in how to really isolate that stubborn leak.

As others indicated, walk the main line stopping at each saddle. Create a loop where the sap fills the bottom of the loop and must travel uphill to get into the saddle. If that lateral line is leaking, sap will whip through the loop and into the saddle. If no leak, it will slowly chug its way up the loop you made and into the saddle. Chugging sap good, whipping sap bad.

Now that you have figured out which lateral is leaking, the task of figuring out which tap/fitting is leaking is often harder. But by using the loop method, you can isolate it every time. Start walking up the lateral and like others said, drag you hand along it to feel for squirrel/other animal marks. This will work most of the time. But if it doesn't, stop at each tap and create the "loop" after each tap. More specifically on the uphill side of the tap you are standing in front of. If the sap chugs above the tap you are standing at, then you know the leak is in front of you. If the sap whips then you know the leak is further up the lateral line.

This is complicated to explain, I hope this makes some sense to people.

Ben

[TerryEspo]

Everyone Thanks for those replies, very helpful.

Should my sap be flowing at the same speed on all laterals, even at the farthest away laterals?

When I pull a spile, sap really moves thought the line. Is that the speed I am looking for to detect leaks? Or will the sap in lines still move slower that a pulled spile and still have a leak?

Off topic, my laterals are too tight to make loops, I must have done my saddle connections wrong, my lines run straight to the mainline and are tight to the saddles. Kinda pulling on the saddle to keep laterals tight.

I hope to see temps today that should give me a bit of a flow.

Thank-you again.

Terry

[spud]

Everyone Thanks for those replies, very helpful.

Should my sap be flowing at the same speed on all laterals, even at the farthest away laterals?

When I pull a spile, sap really moves thought the line. Is that the speed I am looking for to detect leaks? Or will the sap in lines still move slower that a pulled spile and still have a leak?

Off topic, my laterals are too tight to make loops, I must have done my saddle connections wrong, my lines run straight to the mainline and are tight to the saddles. Kinda pulling on the saddle to keep laterals tight.

I hope to see temps today that should give me a bit of a flow.

Thank-you again.

Terry

Yes all your sap should be running a nice steady flow with no back and forth or racing action. When you pull a spout you are introducing air into your system and this will cause your sap to race to the saddle. Each saddle should have a loop. When you install a saddle it should be pointed away from the lateral line and not towards it. Your lateral line gets hooked to the mainline wire with a hook connector or a slide fitting. From there about 12-16 inches of tubing will loop around and connect into the saddle. This allows for easy leak detection and less stress on the saddle. If your saddles are put on backwards I would wait till the end of the season and then turn them around.

Spud

[Russell Lampron]

When there is a leak the sap will move fast but not as fast as a pulled spile. The speed of the movement will be an indicator of the size of the leak. A small leak will be slower than a large one. Another thing to be aware of is that the trees will produce gas that will look like a leak. The gassing will be a little more sporadic where the sap flow will slow down or even stop at times.

When you attach your lateral to the mainline you should use a straight connector with a hook on it and hook that onto the mainline wire. You can also use hollow core rope and tie that to the mainline wire. In either case make a loop about a foot long to then connect to the manifold/saddle. You don't want any tension on the manifold and the loop that you make makes a good spot to see the speed of the sap going into the mainline.

[PerryW]

When the sap is flowing hard in the laterals, the percentage of air bubbles should be around 50%. If there is a leak, the will be significantly more air bubbles than sap (and it will be traveling much faster than normal).

[sapman]

One method I use to make a loop in tight laterals is to open my two handed tool and put one side over the uphill side and the other under the downhill side and slightly turn it to create that "low spot needed. Nothing revolutionary.

[PerryW]

One method I use to make a loop in tight laterals is to open my two handed tool and put one side over the uphill side and the other under the downhill side and slightly turn it to create that "low spot needed. Nothing revolutionary.

Yup, I do the same thing with my fingers; i.e. create a "low spot" or sag in the tubing. It allows you to verify that the sap is actually flowing on lines where there are only a few taps above. You watch carefully and you can see the sag slowly filling up with sap.

[adk1]

Funny thing is u gotta be getting sap to use these techniques! I have very little,sap flow,right now, but when I have any sap flow I turn my pump on.

[Maplesapper]

Terry-
Are you on natural gravity vacuum or electric ?
Bubbles in the lines, assembled like peas in a pod , usually indicate where the leak is- imho
Vacuum gauges at the ends of the laterals are cheap and cheerful.
That's how we were able to finally determine we in fact had leaks and not just gas-sy trees.

[TerryEspo]

MapleSapper, I have a new shurflo pump this year, dying to use it.

Yesterday forecast said maybe a wee run but turned into a full blown snowstorm, my yard looks like a Christmas Postcard, so disappointing. As I am typing this I am looking at overcast and 40MPH winds right now, isn't spring wonderful !

I will for sure next year get vacuum gauges for my laterals but too late this year to get them.

This week I hope for a run and can check for leaks soon.

Thanks.

Terry

[eagle lake sugar]

Some trees will leak through a crack or knot hole. I carry a spare drop or piece of tubing with me when checking for leaks. Just remove the drop from the tap, put the piece of tubing on the tap, and suck on it. You can easily tell if it's a leaker. Just look around and make sure nobody is watching first!