sugar in syrup

[kitkat]

Can I reboil my syrup with more sap? Looks like I over cooked it and have sugar in bottom of jars. Hygrometer was right on when I bottled it.

[Run Forest Run!]

Kitkat, that's what I'm doing right now. If your syrup filtered nicely and is clear, don't reboil the syrup with sap or you'll create new niter and have to refilter. If you use distilled water to thin down your heavy syrup and heat everything up slowly to 190F (without having your syrup boil) then you can rebottle into clean jars.

[kitkat]

Thanks I'll try that. It looked good on the hygrometer, but I must have over cooked it. My 1st batch came out perfect.

[Run Forest Run!]

I did the same thing, except with both my first and second batches. The density looked great when I originally bottled it, but then little crystals started to appear. The telltale sign that I somehow screwed up, and I've no idea how. :confused: The good news is that it's an easy fix.

[bawplank]

I had the same thing happen, the hydrometer was good but its too thick. I was thing that the temp was off so that made the hydrometer off. I didn't convert it I just went to the line.

[bigschuss]

Can I reboil my syrup with more sap? Looks like I over cooked it and have sugar in bottom of jars. Hygrometer was right on when I bottled it.

Are you sure that's not just niter? If the hydrometer was spot on I think you might be fine.

[saphound]

Maybe it's because you used a hygrometer instead of a hydrometer, ha. ;)
Now I don't feel so bad...I've overcooked both my batches so far. I thinned mine with sap. The first time I used heated sap after the syrup had been filtered, the second time cold sap before filtering. Worked great both times.

[wiam]

If the "sugar" was there like the next morning it's probably niter that settled out. Sugar crystals take a while to show up.

[buckeye gold]

It depends on how long you are keeping it hot while filtering and bottling. If you extend that process under say 185 degrees for long enough you will actually lose more water content and make your syrup heavier. I actually run mine through the filters just a tad light and by the time I've bottled it's good. I checked it several times this year and once I was heavy on a batch that was slow to filter and I had reheated it for a second run through the filters. I checked it cold just before bottling and had to thin it. Cold testing your syrup with a hydrometer is the best check for true density as the temp is steady and not changing as you test.

[jrm]

I did the same thing, except with both my first and second batches. The density looked great when I originally bottled it, but then little crystals started to appear. The telltale sign that I somehow screwed up, and I've no idea how. :confused: The good news is that it's an easy fix.

So this happened to me this morning... No problems on my first boil last weekend. Evaporated yesterday and filtered, after reaching syrup per hydrometer. Refrigerated it and heated to 190 this morning. First four jars, 4 oz mason jars are clear. 3 8 oz syrup bottles all have crystals. I'm guessing it got too hot while waiting to bottle those, but my thermometer never read higher than195.


Maybe it's because you used a hygrometer instead of a hydrometer, ha. ;)
Now I don't feel so bad...I've overcooked both my batches so far. I thinned mine with sap. The first time I used heated sap after the syrup had been filtered, the second time cold sap before filtering. Worked great both times.

I have sap that I could add - no distilled water as Karen has used -. Saphound how hot did you heat the sap before adding to the heated syrup?

Other than "my syrup has crystals" is it problematic to leave the bottles as they are? Are they likely to crystallize even further as they cool?

Also, two of the four jelly jars have popped. The remaining two have not -- I only bottled a couple hours ago. I've canned, but haven't used the mason jars for syrup before. What shall I do if they don't pop. And, could I just add these two jars, and bottles back to reheat and rebottle if I wanted?

Janet

[michiganphil]

Refrigerated it and heated to 190 this morning. First four jars, 4 oz mason jars are clear. 3 8 oz syrup bottles all have crystals. I'm guessing it got too hot while waiting to bottle those, but my thermometer never read higher than195.




Also, two of the four jelly jars have popped. The remaining two have not -- I only bottled a couple hours ago. I've canned, but haven't used the mason jars for syrup before. What shall I do if they don't pop. And, could I just add these two jars, and bottles back to reheat and rebottle if I wanted?

Janet

4oz jars are quite small. With smaller jars or bottles (8oz or less) the glass cools the syrup before it has a chance to sterilize the cap and get a good seal. Did you preheat the jars before filling? If the syrup was 190 deg. and the jar was warm, the lid should have sealed. I would store these in the freezer, or reheat and refill the jars.

From your pictures that looks more like niter than crystals. Did you leave the burner on while filling the jars? If those were the last 2 bottles you filled, and the burner was on, I would guess that niter was formed in the syrup at the bottom of the pan as you were filling the jars/bottles. It is fine to leave these bottles, as long as the appearance (cloudy syrup) doesn't bother you.

[jrm]

4oz jars are quite small. With smaller jars or bottles (8oz or less) the glass cools the syrup before it has a chance to sterilize the cap and get a good seal. Did you preheat the jars before filling? If the syrup was 190 deg. and the jar was warm, the lid should have sealed. I would store these in the freezer, or reheat and refill the jars.

From your pictures that looks more like niter than crystals. Did you leave the burner on while filling the jars? If those were the last 2 bottles you filled, and the burner was on, I would guess that niter was formed in the syrup at the bottom of the pan as you were filling the jars/bottles. It is fine to leave these bottles, as long as the appearance (cloudy syrup) doesn't bother you.

i sterilized the jars and bottles first in boiling water and left them in at a low boil until I bottled, as I do when canning. A third of the four oz jars finally popped. The fourth still hasn't and the jar is completely cool, so I did as you suggested and just put it in the fridge. (It'll become my local sister's taster.) Given my small scale, so far ~2.5 quarts, I decided 4oz is the right size jar to give away, but I think in the future I'm going to stick with the 8 and 12 oz bottles. (Yes, I kept the burner on under the finished syrup as I was bottling.)

Last year during my first attempt I had niter in the bottles. I ultimately heated and filtered and bottled anew. I suspected sugar crystals for two reasons... The first is when I first filled and capped, the syrup was clear. When I turned back it almost looked as though I had snow flakes floating in the bottle. Second, when I went to clean the pot with my tasting spoon, the remaining syrup was very thick and sticky, almost like honey. There was no niter build-up in my pan.

I'm including additional pictures, now that the bottles have sat for a few hours. There is some suspended particles, but as you can see, much of it is similar to a plug at the bottles neck. It is not solid, however.

As long as it is not problematic, I'm thinking I will keep as is.11593

Thanks.

[Cedar Eater]

There is some suspended particles, but as you can see, much of it is similar to a plug at the bottles neck. It is not solid, however.

As long as it is not problematic, I'm thinking I will keep as is.11593

Thanks.

I've never seen anything like that when bottling mine. Do you strain the foam off during the evap? I use a very fine mesh SS strainer and take the foam off to maximize the surface area. I think it decreases the evap time, but it also seems to minimize the floating stuff during bottling.

[jrm]

I've never seen anything like that when bottling mine. Do you strain the foam off during the evap? I use a very fine mesh SS strainer and take the foam off to maximize the surface area. I think it decreases the evap time, but it also seems to minimize the floating stuff during bottling.
Yes, I too use a fine mesh strainer to skim the foam. The syrup was nice and clear after filtering, and in the first (smaller) jars that I bottled.

My son put the labels on that he designed and so far we are keeping as is. However, we have about a gallon of sap since Sunday's boil and I think we might be done... Looked at the ten day forecast and we have no prediction for freezing, in the low 40s it seems. I may add some of this sap, get back to proper density, filter, and bottle again.

[saphound]

I have sap that I could add - no distilled water as Karen has used -. Saphound how hot did you heat the sap before adding to the heated syrup?

Janet, I brought it to a boil for a couple minutes to: A) kill any possible bacteria and B) to rinse out the bottle with to dissolve some sugar crystals that were stuck to the bottom. Then poured it all back into the pot of warmed up syrup, stirred in and re-bottled. This was refrigerated for immediate use, not canned for later use.

[michiganphil]

Jrm,

I feel your pain about the small scale, and your choice of bottle size. When I started, I almost didn't want to filter my syrup because of the amount retained in the filter. Now that I've learned a little, and my operation is bigger, I don't have that problem (I rinse the filter and run that syrup/water back through the evap with the next batch). I can tell you the small bottles are a pain to get right.

From your last picture that does look more like crystallization. I think leaving the burner on made your last couple bottles a little heavy. Hot syrup holds its temp pretty well. When I bottled small batches, I got it up to temperature, turned off the heat, and bottled as fast as I could to avoid over heating it.

I wouldn't say that you did anything wrong, just keep trying to find what works best for your operation. You'll get it.

[bcarpenter]

The last two years I was also having difficulty with syrup that was too heavy and having less than clear syrup. In my system I never had enough to do an actual "draw off" so I would do a batch over a weekend boil and end up with 5 gallons of concentrate that I would then take to 219F on a propane burner. When I hit 219F I would start checking density. When I got the right density on the hydrometers (i have 2 of these) I found my temp to be above 219F, (Somewhere around 220 or 221) I would remove the syrup. Anyhow this season I was not able to filter and can the same day that I brought the syrup to density, and on a whim I decided to check the density of what I thought was perfect syrup at 100F as it was warming up for filtering/canning and I found that my previously "perfect syrup" was now 4-5 brix heavier after correcting for temperature on the hydrometer!

Naturally I was shocked, but I corrected for density using distilled water, filtered it, and canned several batches so hopefully this year I will not have any issues. My only explanation is that the syrup, once I reached density and removed it from the heat source still continued to simmer and boil long enough to lose enough moisture that raised the brix of the syrup. So for us smaller guys who are doing smaller volumes I wonder if the cooling off period impacts us more?

Next year I will run some tests stopping a couple brix lighter than finished syrup to see if I can get closer to the correct density. I must say it was not that hard to adjust using distilled water much easier than the additional boiling. In one case the amount of water added translated to one 8oz bottle of syrup too!

Anyhow that's my experience this year. We are sitting right around 6.5 gallons of syrup produced this year thanks to the additional sap gallonage we got from our shurflo 4048 pump set-up. Things are becoming easier to understand and predict with more syrup.

Bill C.

[saphound]

Another thing I found that could affect things when going by the thermometer...if you are using one of those clips that hold the thermometer in one spot, other areas of the pot can read hotter. My last batch I held it in my hand and checked all around the pot as I was stirring with my other hand hoping it that would help keep it all the same temp. I was shooting for 220. 219 here, 219 there, and it shot to 222 under where the flame was in like 2 seconds. I had my hydro ready, but things happen so fast at that critical stage above 117 there was no time to fill the cup to heat it, dump it out and fill it again, wait for the hydro to stop bobbing to get an accurate reading, wait for my so called "instant read" digital thermometer (which actually takes about 10 secs to read), and all the while the syrup is boiling hotter and hotter. I don't know how anyone does it...especially with small batches.

[Hannah]

We have the same issues. Usually we boil down 50-100 gallons at a time and finish on the propane stove. I use a large turkey fryer pot to finish it off and can get some funny readings. I basically just say to hell with it and pick a spot in the middle for my instant read thermometer, 220 is the magic number for us, filter it, warm it back up and bottle immediately. This last batch gave me a bit more syrup than I wanted to handle in my large pot so I transferred some to a smaller stock pot and the temperature differences around that small pot were terrible, anything form 218-222. So far no sugar in our bottles and honestly, not worried about it if we do get some.

[jrm]

Another thing I found that could affect things when going by the thermometer...if you are using one of those clips that hold the thermometer in one spot, other areas of the pot can read hotter. My last batch I held it in my hand and checked all around the pot as I was stirring with my other hand hoping it that would help keep it all the same temp. I was shooting for 220. 219 here, 219 there, and it shot to 222 under where the flame was in like 2 seconds. I had my hydro ready, but things happen so fast at that critical stage above 117 there was no time to fill the cup to heat it, dump it out and fill it again, wait for the hydro to stop bobbing to get an accurate reading, wait for my so called "instant read" digital thermometer (which actually takes about 10 secs to read), and all the while the syrup is boiling hotter and hotter. I don't know how anyone does it...especially with small batches.

This is funny, only in that I can relate so well. Add in the fact that the hydro cup is too tall to actually tip and fill in my finishing pot, so I need to ladle and pour, and the comedy of errors can grow.

So, to finish up my saga, I decided after various reading more of the responses here, and talking with my son, to reheat, dilute with (boiled) fresh sap, check density & temp, re filter and rebottle. Filtering started out smoothly enough. Before I know it, I watch in slow motion as my filter begins to tip and before I can catch it, I have syrup spilling down my stove, cabinets and onto the floor. :mad: I secure my loops to my cabinet knobs, as I've done in the past, work around my sticky floor and get the rest of the syrup going through the filter. Clean the floor, cabinets, and stove. Finish filtering, boil my jars, reheat my syrup, bottle two jars, pouring the last of the syrup into the 3rd jar and realize that I put the used caps on the first two jars, instead of new. Hoping they seal ok. Lost about 4 oz of syrup in my spill. But, for the effort, back to clear. I decided I case the bottles weren't fully sealed due to the used lids, that I'd keep those in the fridge.
Crazy.