Disinfection of tap holes

[Brad W Wi]

I've heard a bit of spraying the tap holes with a disinfection spray. News to me!!! I assume its before putting the tap in and a bleach and water mixture. I'm wondering how many do that and what are the advantages of doing it? Also what is the mixture ratio? I just keep picking up more and more info from everyone on this site. Thank you all, as I feel I'm still learning.

[mountainvan]

I used to use a 2% bleach solution, but switched to isopropyl alcohol, regular rubbing alcohol, after I got my ro( bleach is not good for the membranes). I think that dipping every spile, and the drill bit at every tree works better than the bleach.

[Pete33Vt]

Rubbing alcohol is what is used around here.Dimmion Grimmsells denatured alcohol and a handy dipper to. Just about the same as farmers use to dip cows teats. Although acording to Glen Goodrich at the maple school you are not supposed to use anything that you can't drink. Good old fashion 100+ proof wiskey is what should be used.
I would have a had time tapping. ( A dip for the spouts a shot for me) LOL.

[Russell Lampron]

A bottle of 151 Rum would do the trick. The squirrels would love that.

Russ

[802maple]

That 151 would certainly work on something

[Fred Henderson]

Tapping will take a little longer using that rum on every hole, just another added step.

[Russell Lampron]

After a while the steps will turn to staggers and the trees will have holes drilled all over the place.

Russ

[ibby458]

I used a 50/50 mix of water and peroxide last year. I think it helped a lot.

[royalmaple]

I knew we had some rules for cleaning tap holes in Maine. This comes from the States maple syrup manual.

They do say a 5% solution of household bleach is fine to use. For cleaning tubing, spiles and buckets. But this was taken from the manual:

Warning: Don’t use paraformaldehyde pellets. In the past, paraformaldehyde pellets were recommended for use in tap holes; some out-of-date sugaring manuals still suggest their use. Research shows that the use of paraformaldehyde pellets can damage the trees, so they are now illegal. Similarly, the use of denatured alcohol as a disinfectant for tapholes is also illegal in Maine.

Is Iso-alcohol considered, denatured alcohol as stated above?

[super sappy]

I purchased some Everclear grain based alcohol in NH a few years back for some homemade medicine. That stuff makes you see stars in the middle of the day but I think it was 190 proof. Also makes a good paint stripper and fire starter.I do not think that you can get it in some states. I had to show Id to buy it. Super sappy

[mountainvan]

denatured alcohol has methanol in it that makes it poisonous!! If you drink it, it can kill you. Isopropyl alcohol, rubbing alcohol, has nothing added to it and you, if your a moron, can drink it. I know we use deadly chemicals in syrup production, bleach( if your stupid enough to drink it) and ro chemicals(if you don't rinse the membranes well), but I would never use denatured.

[royalmaple]

Van-

Thanks, I may try the iso alcohol, isn't that what you use on your taps?

[mountainvan]

Yes I do use that.

[Pete33Vt]

Van I thought that also about denatured alcohol, its just funny that a maple supplier would sell it. I guess they are just looking to make there money and not worry about the syrup quality.

[HanginAround]

A note on alcohols...

Denatured alcohol contains ethanol and some methanol (wood alcohol), as was said, and is poisonous. In the tiny amounts that are used, probably isn't an issue, but I don't think I would use it.

Isopropynol is sometimes called rubbing alcohol, but rubbing alcohol U.S.P is not isopropyl alcohol. It can be poisonous too, but probably not near so as much as denatured alcolhol. From Wikipedia: "Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized by the liver into acetone. Symptoms of isopropyl alcohol poisoning include flushing, headache, dizziness, CNS depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma. Use in well-ventilated areas and use protective gloves while using. Poisoning can occur from ingestion, inhalation, or absorption."

Rubbing Alcohol U.S.P: (Standarized product made of ethynol (drinking alcohol) and other ingredients). From Wikipedia: "8 parts by volume of acetone, 1.5 parts by volume of methyl isobutyl ketone, and 100 parts by volume of ethyl alcohol. It contains 68.5-71.5% by volume of absolute ethyl alcohol, the remainder consisting of water and the denaturants, with or without colour additives, and perfume oils. Rubbing Alcohol contains in each 100 mL not less than 355 mg of sucrose octaacetate or not less than 1.40 mg of denatonium benzoate." It can be poisonous too, but I doubt small quantities would hurt you.

Sodium hypochlorite (laundry bleach): Very strong acid, but not "poisonous" per se in small quantities. Widely used for disinfection of municipal drinking water and pool water.

Hydrogen Peroxide: Harmless in small quantities, can be used as a toothpaste when mixed with soda, it's even fed to pigs. But most OTC blends are not food grade and likely contain additives not fit for ingestion, but doubt there would be enough of anything to hurt you in minute quantities. Also fire hazard if spilled on clothing or leather. Spontanious ignition chances go up as vapour evaporates and concentration of remaining liquid increases. Cured leather contains metal ions and can ignite immediately. HP vapours can create explosive substances when in contact with many things, even grease and alcohols.

One more thing I just thought of.... the boiling points of isopropynol, methanol, and ethanol are all lower that water, so these are all going to evaporate very rapidly. I can't say about the other additives they put in them, or the products that are created as they react with other things.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post deleted

[JasonS]

What ratio of peroxide to water is recomended to disinfect tapholes and taps? I have used a 5% bleach solution but I'm thinking of changing. Household peroxide is already diluted how much more water (if any) is neccesary?
Thanks,
Jason

[HanginAround]

Do you know the starting concentration of the household stuff? I think I can find the end concentration you want in the NAMP Manual.

[maple flats]

You should not use the household stuff, it contains heavy metals as a preservative. Use food grade, available on line or in bulk from some full line water treatment/ water softener etc companies. Food grade peroxide has no additives, it comes in 35% concentration. For cleaning tubing with a longer exposure time you use 1 gal of 35% conc/300 water. For taps I would think you would use it a little more concentrated. When not in use this peroxide should be kept in the dark because light breaks it down, while using it don't worry it does not break down that fast. I will be using it at double this concentration and will dip the spout for 10 seconds. My math says:1 tbs/100 oz is the same as 1 gal/300 gal. Nearly double concentration, I am using 2 tbs/ gal water or 1 tbs/2 qts. I will mix a batch and keep the batch in a well cleaned milk jug inside a cardboard box for darkness and use from that filling a thermos or such for in the bush. Keep it from freezing. Back to the peroxide, water treatment companies use it to kill bacteria by metered direct injection into water systems. They sell it for about $150-200 for a 15 gal drum. As far as I know they do not have smaller sizes unless they will sell from a drum. I have gotten some by getting their empty drums which typically still have about a pint or so that their equipment didn't suck out. These are also very good 15 gal bbls for small sap collection on small tubing set ups or mini systems, maybe 5-10 or so taps. I cut a 5" x 8" rect. opening in the side, use it laying down and make aluminum covers held on by a makeshift bungee (twine and a rubberband made from innertube) to hold it on. This gives an outlet for heat if in the sun which keeps it cooler and I can quickly insert my sap pump hose to pump out and into a tank on my tractor or truck.

[Fred Henderson]

I googled this site for 35% food grade peroxide www.dfwx.com/goewebsite.htm. 1 quart 16.86 plus 8.63 s&h.

[SUGARSMITH]

I was reading the new manual last night and it stated that disenfecting the tapholes will prolong hole closure. Has anyone tried to prove/disprove that theory or noticed longer healing times for the tree ?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I quit disinfecting tap holes a couple of years ago and went to disinfecting the spouts instead and came up with a great method. I used one of the 1/2 litre Sugarhill plastic sugarhouses and it works great. Just grab the drop line 3 or 4 inches above the spout and stick it into it and pull it out. Takes about 2 seconds and with the design of the container, spillage is minimal and you can do about about 150 to 200 taps without adding more liquid. Stick the spout in at a 45 degree angle and pull it back out the same.

For disinfecting, I used the pool chlorine in a dry state and mixed 1 heaped teaspoon with 1 gallon water. I can't remember the technical name for it, but I use it because it doesn't contain sodium to prevent animals from chewing on it.

This container would work great for any liquid disinfectant and you should be able to pick up one from Bascoms or some other sugarhill dealer for around a buck!

[brookledge]

I think what Brandon is using is Calcium Hypoclorite, it is available at pool suppy stores. And it has no sodium so there is no salt residue left to attract those varmits
Keith

[mountainvan]

I have found that my tapholes, 5/16", close up in a year or less with or without a disinfectant. The only thing that has kept my tapholes open for two years was forest tent caterpiller damage. I do think that sterilizing the spile before putting it in the hole not only prolongs sapflow, but also increases sapflow for the year.

[maple flats]

I only sanitise the tap not the hole. I also sanitise the bit after each few holes with the same peroxide mix mentioned above.

[hydrogeo]

151...now we're getting somewhere. As an aside, I know in municipal water treatment there is a reaction that occurs between chlorine used for disinfection and disovled organic carbon in the water that results in the formation of a suite of compounds call trihalomethanes. They are carcinogenic and USEPA has recently been raising concern about this issue. Not sure of the organic carbon concentration in sap, how the whole heat thing would come into play, or if there is any relation to the use of chlorine bleach in tap holes. Just figured I throw one more thing into the mix.

[themapleking]

Just clean your drill bit in clean water. The 2 problems with using chemicals in the tap hole, 1 they are all poison, 2 the hole dosen't heal -close. I'm sure you have notice this when tapping. That alot of last seasons holes are still open.
Rembering we are just tapping trees not doing surgury. There is a thing as beening too clean don't screw with natuare too much.

[Dave Y]

I used bleach solution before and it has taken three years for some of the holes to heal. I stop sanitizing last year. It is jut one more thing to drag around with you. I agree w/mapleking it not surgery.

[HanginAround]

They don't recommend doing the tapholes, but they do recommend disinfecting drill bits if they come into contact with the ground, or you drill into rotten wood. I think doing spiles is a good idea too, but wouldn't dip them and stick them in the tree wet.

[H. Walker]

Of all the disinfectiants Hydrogen Peroxide Is the best. If you look at the chemical compound, it is H2-O2. As you can see it only has 1 more oxygen than water (H2-O). As I found out on Google the extra oxygen is quickly absorbed in water and becomes nontoxic (30miniutes). We actually have a small amount in our bodies. The reason for the poison label is not to drink a pint or more, remember the court case with McDonalds, some people have to be told that coffee is HOT!!
Hydrogen Peroxide is also used as a fertillizer for plants.

I found all this on Google in 10 minutes.

I think for me the clorine is gone and Peroxide will be used this year for all disinfection on everything non-metal because the extra oxygen molicule does aid in rust.

[southfork]

I boil drill bits and taps in water. No chemicals applied in the tap hole.

[sapman]

H Walker,

I noticed in your sig line that you use all buckets, correct? I do the same. Do you disinfect your spouts with peroxide? If so, are you using plastic spouts, as you said the peroxide would attack metal. I use all aluminum 5/16 spouts, and assume using peroxide on them would be a bad idea. I've always boiled them before use.

Thanks for you thoughts,
Tim

[H. Walker]

Sapman

I have plastic and aluminum spiles. I have never used peroxide before but plan on it this year. I plan on disinfecting the hole and by the time the rest of the crew get there to put the spile in, the sap will have run enough to disperse & deoxidise the peroxide. I don't know???

But, "The person that always does things, the way they always did, will always get what they always got" , I'm always trying to improve!!!

[Gary in NH]

I'm new here but work in the water treatment field so I can add something to the discussion of disinfectants. 35% peroxide is nasty stuff. True, it is only an oxygen atom away from water but @ 35% it can be dangerous to handle. I would recommend buying a 7% solution if you can find it instead of a 35% solution. By going to 7% you can save yourself from some serious burns and avoid DOT issues when transporting. It is a good choice for disinfection since it does break down to just water. It does degrade rather quickly once open and exposed to light. I think it is a better choice over chlorine for sugaring.
Technically, chlorine is a registered pesticide.

Gary in NH
Backyard hobbyist - 15 taps

[HanginAround]

Hi Gary, thanks and welcome! There is an "introduce yourself" thread if you feel like posting something there.