Propane, Burners and BTU's

[saphound]

This is an offshoot topic from my other thread. That thing covered a lot of topics and grew out of control so I thought I'd better start a new thread on this topic. Maybe it's been discussed in the past. but I'm up to page 74 now and haven't seen it yet. So anyway, some interesting facts you might find helpful it you use propane to boil with. Wish I knew this before I ordered a new 185,000 BTU burner.
I talked to my buddy at my local propane service that delivers to my house about what I would need to hook up my new burner to the house gas. Turns out you can't. House has a low pressure regulator. That can't be changed cuz the appliances require that. Ok, I'm back to using a portable tank. I ask him about running a 185k btu burner off a 20 lb tank and he chuckled and said no way, I would need a bigger tank...30 lb min and 40 would be better. He had some nice new ones but too much money for me right now. Then he says "figure about two gallons per hour at that rate and a 20 pounder holds a little over 4 gallons." :o
Anyway some interesting facts from a sheet he gave me.
A 20-pound propane tank has a 430,270 total Btu capacity when full
A 30-pound tank, 649,980 Btus
A 40-pound tank, 860,542 Btus
100-pound tank, 2.16 million Btus
To determine how many hours your propane tank will power your appliance at 100 percent, divide your propane tank's Btu capacity by the appliance's Btu rating.

So In my case with a 20 lb tank, 430,270 divided by 185,000 = 2.3 hours
30 lb tank = 3.5 hours, 40 lb tank = 4.6 hrs.
So, even if it could keep up with demand, you would suck a 20lb tank dry in 2.3 hrs at 185,000 btu's.
I don't think you'd be done with 20 gals in a single hotel pan or turkey fryer pot in 2.3 hrs.
So I'll be running my new Super Duper 185k burner at a much lower rate..prob around 65k. Glad it was only 40 bucks!
Just thought y'all might find this helpful.:)

[Sandersyrup]

This is actually very helpful! I'm looking for a finishing burner and wondered how much BTU really matters when boiling sap. Would evaporation rates change significantly with a 30k vs an 60k? Assuming both are on the same size pan and out of any breeze.


~ John 3/16th"

[mellondome]

Depends on the pan.... if it is a small pan that is only capable of absorbing 28k btu.. then no.. if it is a larger pan that can absorb 100k btu, yes.

[Run Forest Run!]

Thanks for the research saphound. This is really good reference info.

[saphound]

Hi John, I'm very new to all this, but I think it might matter, based on my last boil. I think just putting my tank in a tub of water increased btu's and a noticeably more vigorous boil and higher gph rate. But it comes with a propane price. I think I'd go with the 60k..but not much higher..the propane usage will kill ya. Now that is for your main workhorse boiler, for a finishing burner I bet 30k is plenty. Kinda depends on the size of your finish pan too tho maybe. I'll know more after I use mine..I plan to try different btu levels just to experiment a bit. I'll post my observations here..now I just need more sap, dang it. Still pretty slow here...forecast looks promising tho. :cool:

[Cedar Eater]

Your buddy at the local propane service probably could have found someone who could set you up with a second regulator off your big tank that would feed an outdoor location. It might be expensive and require outdoor tubing or piping changes, but a home can have multiple regulators off one tank. Some propane suppliers will do the work for free, because they'll be selling you much more propane. It might depend on whether you rent or own your tank. If it's below ground, you probably own it. If it's above ground, it might be rented. You would eventually pay it off with cheaper propane, but only if you use it enough.

Regarding using tanks, you can pipe them together with brass fittings to make a manifold with individual isolation valves that would let you change out empty tanks on the fly or empty from multiple tanks at a time. You wouldn't be saving a whole lot of money vs. buying larger tanks, but transporting larger tanks is more dangerous and a lot harder on the back.

[saphound]

Cedar, yes it's possible to do, but why would I want to? Just to waste money on propane? 2 gals/hr at 185k no matter how you hook it up. Let me know how I can get 10 gph off a single burner and I'll consider it. I did a 20 gal batch on one 20 lb tank with what I had. Less even..that same tank lasted 2 hours on my second batch. Not sure I would want a harder boil than I had last time either, sap was jumping out and made a heck of a mess of the pot. It's soaking in my lye bath now.


Edit: I just noticed your post, Karen.. your welcome!

[Clinkis]

I tied into one of my home propane tanks. It's actually very simple and didn't cost me much. I don't know if I save much on propane cost but I save on the hassle of moving and filling propane bottles. My evaporator has three 65000btu burners so it can suck the propane back. If I didn't have an RO it wouldn't be cost effective but I figure I can make syrup for around $2 a litre.

A tip for everyone who uses the smaller propane bottles. Get a pigtail that allows you to tie 2 bottles together. It will allow you to completely empty your bottles while keeping a good boil going. This is a lot easier then trying to float your tanks in a tub of hot water.

[saphound]

Interesting Clinkis. What do you mean by "it can suck the propane back"? I wanted to save on the hassle of the small tanks too but it didn't work out with this new burner I got. Your setup must run with a low pressure regulator I assume? Also, to clarify, I didn't use hot water, It wouldn't stay hot very long with a -44 degree F ice cube in it, anyway. And it wasn't deep enough to float the tank, even when it was empty...just a couple inches up the sides seemed to work well. I used one of those round plastic totes with the rope handles you can get at Lowes or Walmart for a couple bucks. It wasn't all that hard to do. I know it's not always wise to judge things after just one use, but it really did seem to work well keeping the pressure up until it ran dry. Will it do that with the higher demand of my new burner?..we'll see.

[Cedar Eater]

Cedar, yes it's possible to do, but why would I want to?

If your goal is to burn cheaper propane, finding a way to burn your home propane is the way to go, regardless of which burner you use, and it's way more convenient, after the initial investment of time to get the propane to the burn zone. This is probably the safest option, because you aren't messing with portable tanks at all. If your goal is to minimize the hassle of using 20 pounders while using 20 pounders, a manifold and three 20 pounders is the way to go, regardless of the burner, because you'll be taking two at a time to refill at Costco and you won't need a water bath or other tank heater. If your goal is to minimize up front investment, a single 20 pounder with a waterbath and more trips to Costco is the way to go. The third option is probably the most expensive long term, unless you walk to Costco with your 20 pounder and your time is free. It's just economics.

I have two burners and a gas grill on my back deck just outside my back door and under a tarp awning. 11402

I've been increasing the efficiency and tidying up since the photo was taken (and I can still do more to increase the efficiency, but I've been working on a woodburning evaporator made from an old laundry dryer). These burners are connected to my home propane. Out of the combination, I can get almost 3 gph when the outdoor temps are in the thirties. It ain't purty, but it's cheap. I had all the parts except for some copper tubing and fittings, and the propane that I'm burning cost me $1.79 per gallon last Summer. I just got a new delivery of propane at $2.04/gal. There isn't a Costco within a four hour drive from me (I live in the sticks). A hundred pounder refill costs more than $80 and they only add 80#. That works out to over $4/gal and 20 pounders are worse. For me, it was economically a no brainer to get propane out of my house and out to my deck.

[liljohn]

My new propane rig this year. I have 2 - 212k burners that I run for about 10-13 hours on 2-20# tanks, boils about 6-7 gph

[saphound]

I don't go to Costco, I go to Warners Gas 3 miles away. 10 bucks even which is $2.32 per gallon for 4.3 gallons. A little more than home delivery price but not a huge difference. My goal is to increase gph without increasing propane usage..hence the hotter burner which can also now hold my hotel pan, whereas I couldn't use it with the turkey fryer base. The new burner will suck propane at a higher rate, depending where I set it, but maybe a couple hours off boil time will make up for it. No idea what the results will be, I haven't tried it yet... but I'll let you know. At least my preheater is using house gas...my kitchen stove.

Edit: I had my numbers wrong on the price..10 bucks for 4.8 gallons =2.08 a gallon....even better!

[mellondome]

For point of reference, a 2x6 raised flue requires about 500k - 550k btu.

[saphound]

My new propane rig this year. I have 2 - 212k burners that I run for about 10-13 hours on 2-20# tanks, boils about 6-7 gph

That's a nice setup, liljohn. Can you tell me how long a tank lasts? Thanks.

Edit..That's a good reference point to know, thanks mellondome.

[dogpatch]

Great looking rig. Where did you find the burners? Do you have an adjustable regulator?

[dogpatch]

If I would have looked closer I see you do.

[Rangdale]

I use 2 cast iron triple burner stoves with each burner outputting 15k BTU's on high. The tanks last about 12 hours and will make roughly 2 gallons of syrup (with sap at or close to 3%). Adding the pre-heater made a HUGE difference as it comes out of the tube dam near boiling. Thought about getting a 100 pounder to dedicate to it but not sure it would be worth the $.

11411

[Clinkis]

"
Interesting Clinkis. What do you mean by "it can suck the propane back"? I wanted to save on the hassle of the small tanks too but it didn't work out with this new burner I got. Your setup must run with a low pressure regulator I assume?

I mean it uses a lot of propane so if I was using 20lbs I'd be changing them way too often. I use high pressure regulators (industrial adjustable). I am tied directly into tank before low pressure regulator.

I'm paying $.55 a litre for propane. Not sure what it's going for if you are filling 20lbs bottles. I'm guessing I'm saving some.

[liljohn]

That's a nice setup, liljohn. Can you tell me how long a tank lasts? Thanks.

I run two 20# tanks simultaneous and they last 10-13 hours.

The burners are from ars supply and are 10" banjo style. Correction 210k btu.
http://www.agrisupply.com/banjo-burner-and-stand/p/83715/

Hth.

[saphound]

I run two 20# tanks simultaneous and they last 10-13 hours.
lijohn,
210,000 btu/ hr would suck a 20 lb tank dry in 2 hrs. I think you're actually running around 40k each to last 10 hrs. But that's a pretty good gph rate...I'd be happy with that.

[liljohn]

Yeah Saphound I dont really know the how to figure the btu's I am just going off the burners description. If you think its wrong please call up agris supply and discuss it with them. All I do know is I am very happy with my GPH this very versus last year. 😁

[saphound]

liljohn, no, there's nothing wrong with the burners description. I'm saying you aren't running it at 100% of what it's capable of. This information is readily available..just google it. If you want to know exactly the btu's/hour you're burners are using, that can be done also. Start with full tanks, run them at a constant rate until empty, and time how long that took. But as an example, just rounding the numbers...
433,000 BTU (20# tank capacity) / 40,000 BTU/hour = 10.8 hours.
433,000 BTU / 210,000 BTU/hr = 2.06 hours
Now, if your tanks frost up and cause your flame to go down some, the burn rate is no longer constant and you will end up with an average rate. I wish I had seen your setup before I ordered my 185k burner. Your setup shows what you can do with two 40-50k burners and a nice evap pan like that. All good information other people can use. One other question...are you running with the valves wide open, or do you turn them down some?

[liljohn]

My tanks do frost up quite a bit and I have actually moved them closer to the opening to help keep them warm. I run with all 4 valves wide open. Another thing the fire brick helps alot to retain the heat. The system will bring the pan (9-14g) up to boil in about 40 minutes.

[saphound]

Yeah I like what you did with the brick, I'll bet that helps a lot. Don't know if I'll ever have a pan like that but I'm going to copy that idea to work with steam pans. I'll tell you what, set those tanks in a tub of water and you'll see how well that works. Doesn't sound like you need to tho...it's workin just fine like it is.

[saphound]

Your buddy at the local propane service probably could have found someone who could set you up with a second regulator off your big tank that would feed an outdoor location. It might be expensive and require outdoor tubing or piping changes, but a home can have multiple regulators off one tank. Some propane suppliers will do the work for free, because they'll be selling you much more propane. It might depend on whether you rent or own your tank. If it's below ground, you probably own it. If it's above ground, it might be rented. You would eventually pay it off with cheaper propane, but only if you use it enough.

Regarding using tanks, you can pipe them together with brass fittings to make a manifold with individual isolation valves that would let you change out empty tanks on the fly or empty from multiple tanks at a time. You wouldn't be saving a whole lot of money vs. buying larger tanks, but transporting larger tanks is more dangerous and a lot harder on the back.

Just wanted to mention that you'd better check with your propane dealer if you are considering doing this. It all made sense until I asked the difference in price other day when I was getting a refill. My home delivery price is 50 cents higher than the price at the pump, not cheaper. I said "You're kidding me!". He points to a couple parked delivery trucks and says, "You think buying those, fueling and maintaining them and paying the drivers to deliver gas would be cheaper than you driving here to get it?" I said "Wellllll, I just always thought it was..but I see your point." So, I don't know how it could be cheaper for you Cedar, but if it is, you're lucky. Natural gas could possibly be cheaper, I don't know.

[Cedar Eater]

Just wanted to mention that you'd better check with your propane dealer if you are considering doing this. It all made sense until I asked the difference in price other day when I was getting a refill. My home delivery price is 50 cents higher than the price at the pump, not cheaper. I said "You're kidding me!". He points to a couple parked delivery trucks and says, "You think buying those, fueling and maintaining them and paying the drivers to deliver gas would be cheaper than you driving here to get it?" I said "Wellllll, I just always thought it was..but I see your point." So, I don't know how it could be cheaper for you Cedar, but if it is, you're lucky. Natural gas could possibly be cheaper, I don't know.

I guess it's all a matter of local economics. The same truck and driver that would bring the bulk propane to my house brings it to the local refill stores. That truck travels 50 miles from the propane dealer to get to me, and the closest refill store to me is very close. He often delivers to them on the same day he delivers to me. But he's smart enough to fill the truck and make multiple deliveries when he comes into my area. He will top off his subscription customers when he delivers to his "will call" customers, so the cost of the truck and driver is shared among every customer of any particular truckload. So the local refill store pays a delivery fee embedded in the price per gallon just like I do, and they might get a preferred rate, but then they have to add a markup. They have to maintain their refill facilities, pay for a state license, pay for insurance, make a profit, etc.

There is only one refill store within a 10 mile radius of my home, probably only 3 or four within a 20 mile radius. I'm sure that lack of competition has something to do with the high retail refill price here. Otoh, there's good competition for local bulk delivery here, so that keeps the price down. I see trucks from 3-4 different companies on the nearby roads and they all have subscription and will call customers. But then, to make a true apples to apples comparison, you have to factor your costs of getting the propane into the equation. Your gasoline for your vehicle isn't free. The wear and tear on your vehicle isn't free. The wear and tear on your body from hauling the twenty pounders around isn't free. 100 pounders are cheaper on a per gallon basis, but they're not easy to deal with for anyone unable to lift their weight. It might be easy to ignore those costs if you don't make special trips for propane and if your time and effort aren't that expensive to you, but not everyone can say that.

But on a pure price per gallon basis for just the propane, not even taking into account the other factors, it just happens to be cheaper (by a lot) for me to get 200 gallons delivered than to purchase 200 gallons in +-4 gallon increments. If I were to go with portable tanks, I would use 100 pounders, because I have the ability to handle them and the economics favor them vs 20 pounders (for me). But the delivered propane is still the cheaper option for me, even though the nearest refill station is within 1/4 mile of the end of my driveway and I could conveniently drop off and pick up tanks as I go about my other business.

But you are right that each person should do their own economic analysis. I suspect that, if you can count five retail refill stores within a ten mile radius and you are close to a place that rolls bulk delivery trucks, you could find it cheaper to buy small tank refills, as long as you exclude your personal transportation costs, which is legitimate to do if you aren't making special trips to get refills.

[saphound]

CE, when you say retail refill stores, do you mean those exchange places where you swap an empty tank for a full one? Those are more expensive for sure. My guy did say the more gas one uses, the price goes down some..but at the rate we use it that's what we pay. I'm sure there are others on the route to my house that get gas the same day, I don't get my own special trip to top off my 200 lb tank, ha.
But anyway, that was my point...check your home delivery price and compare to see if it's worth doing. For me it wouldn't be. I have to go the 3 miles to town nearly everyday for something..so I do combine my trips running various errands.

[Cedar Eater]

CE, when you say retail refill stores, do you mean those exchange places where you swap an empty tank for a full one? Those are more expensive for sure. My guy did say the more gas one uses, the price goes down some..but at the rate we use it that's what we pay. I'm sure there are others on the route to my house that get gas the same day, I don't get my own special trip to top off my 200 lb tank, ha.
But anyway, that was my point...check your home delivery price and compare to see if it's worth doing. For me it wouldn't be. I have to go the 3 miles to town nearly everyday for something..so I do combine my trips running various errands.

No, I'm not talking exchange places. I'm talking drop off your tank, they refill it, and then you pick it up later. They have to have a state license for that, and they probably buy 1600 gallons at a time. The exchange retailers don't need a license, because their tanks get delivered full and picked up empty, but they can't deal in 100 pounders. There are places that will refill your dropoff right away, but only when the right guy is there, and they're not within 10 miles of me. And there are exchange places at about the 20 mile distance. It would cost me more than two gallons of gas for that kind of convenience.

But for the bulk delivery option, the will call customers don't get to lock in a rate. The subscription customers do. But if I get 200 gallons on will call and live 50 miles from the dealer, I pay the same price per gallon as the guy who gets 800 gallons on will call and lives five miles away. I'm just a stop on a flexible route, same as he is. We both buy at local market price, which can occasionally be cheaper than state and national market price. If we both buy in the middle of winter when the price is at its annual peak, he gets bit a lot harder. The subscribers lock in in the summer, when the price is typically at its lowest, but that helps the supplier get commitments from his supplier. I have to make sure that I go into winter with a full tank so that I don't have to call in January or February. I bought this year at the end of March, but only because I started this hobby. I'm seriously looking at the 3 gph e-Vaporator. I've got a welder outlet in my garage that I could plug it into, so I could make one of those by just dipping the heating element in a 33 qt enamel canning pot.

[saphound]

I see...I don't know of any stores like that around me. Never heard of that bulk delivery deal either...maybe it's a state thing. That e-vaporator sounds interesting, I'll have to take a look at it.

[liljohn]

My local price at the refill place is $2.92 per gallon for a 20# (4.2 gallons) equals $12. This is the best price at a refill place most are $15-$18 per 20#. Its $18-$28 to do an exchange. If you get the home refill subscription price with prebuy of 200 gallons its $1.99 per gallon. You usually lock this in around Aug-Sept. This is from a local refiller, Amerigas etc are all a lot pricier.

Hth, j

[saphound]

Where I get mine filled it's 10 bucks even for a 20 pounder. I've read that should be 4.7 gals but who knows what they actually put in..I'm sure it varies. If 4.7 that makes it 2.12/ gal. I can live with that.

[Cedar Eater]

A few years back, 20 pounders had to be fitted with overfill prevention valves. It became illegal to refill them otherwise. Tanks need headspace to keep from spewing liquid or popping their pressure relief valves when they warm up. I've heard that 90% full is the max, but that was just heresay.

[Clinkis]

I know my 420 tanks they only fill 80% max.

[kayakingphotos]

According to the Propane Education & Research Council, the proper way to determine the capacity and weight of a propane cylinder is as follows.

the full weight of propane in the cylinder is 42% of the WC (water capacity) that is stamped on every cylinder. The weight of the empty tank and valve is stamped as the TW (tare weight).

the "20 pound" cylinder I have in the garage is stamped "WC 47.1 TW 18" 47.1 X 0.42 = 19.8 pounds of propane and add that to the TW of 18 and the full weight ends up being 37.8 for the full cylinder of propane.

Patrick

[Cedar Eater]

According to the Propane Education & Research Council, the proper way to determine the capacity and weight of a propane cylinder is as follows.

the full weight of propane in the cylinder is 42% of the WC (water capacity) that is stamped on every cylinder. The weight of the empty tank and valve is stamped as the TW (tare weight).

the "20 pound" cylinder I have in the garage is stamped "WC 47.1 TW 18" 47.1 X 0.42 = 19.8 pounds of propane and add that to the TW of 18 and the full weight ends up being 37.8 for the full cylinder of propane.

Patrick

While that's great to know, the amount the refiller puts in is the number you have to be concerned with when calculating the price per gallon. If they only add 15 pounds, it doesn't really matter what the capacity of the tank is, you're only going to get 15 pounds worth of BTUs. Knowing the weight of a "full" tank will tell you how much they actually put in. Just weigh the tank, subtract the TW, and divide by 4.24 lbs/gal. That gives you the number of gallons in the tank. Divide the price you paid for the "full" tank by that number and you get the price per gallon.

[saphound]

Yep, I agree with that...they put the tank on a scale (like at a doctors office).. when the bar comes up to the center line, they stop the pump. I'm sure tare is all figured in to where they have the scale set. It's not an exact science, and could vary by a few ounces (or more), depending on who and where is doing the filling. You might not know how many pounds they put in, unless you weigh it yourself before and after, (kinda anal)..but they should be able to tell you the price per gallon on any given day. Specs are good to know for reference, but there are variables involved...maybe the tank wasn't completely empty, maybe the guy was slow or fast on the trigger, maybe the scale is rigged , in their favor or your favor. I don't know, I just pay my 10 bucks and go. Close enough. *shrug*

[Soggy Syrup]

I have another Propane Question. I am planning to buy a new 2'x3' flat pan with a preheater. I plan to use propane to boil. I am looking at putting two sets of 3 burners under it, giving me 6 burners. Mr. Heater makes an angle iron 3 burner stove where each burner puts out 15,000 btu. With 6 burners, this would give me 90,000 btu. Is that enough? Or should I look into two of the more expensive sets of burners that put out 50-60,000 btu per burner, giving me a total of 300-400,000 btu? I would save a lot of money by going with the Mr. heater, but want to know if it will put out enough heat. My total cost into burners with the 2 sets of 3 on Mr. Heater 15,000 burners would be just under $200. My total cost on the larger burners would be $300-$350.

[Run Forest Run!]

Hi Soggy. I don't think the 15s are going to cut it. While you might save $100-150 dollars, you'll soon be wishing you'd gone hotter when you are spending forever looking at simmering sap. Your time is worth way more than that! I use two 65,000 units and I need every bit of that power to keep up with the sap when it's really pumping out of the trees.

Welcome to sugaring!

[saphound]

Or should I look into two of the more expensive sets of burners that put out 50-60,000 btu per burner, giving me a total of 300-400,000 btu?

I think you could get away with just one of those for that size pan...which is pretty close to three steam table pans side by side. Have you read this entire thread, Soggy? 400,000 btu's would suck a 20 lb tank dry in just over an hour.

Edit: Check out Rangdale's set-up (pg 2, post #17) He's using 2 triple burner stoves at 15k each. LilJohn has a nice setup also.( post #11)

[mellondome]

Just make sure the burner frame is not bigger than your pans and protect the burner knobs from the heat... as most of them are plastic

[Cedar Eater]

I think the 6 15K btu burners would be enough, but you might have to operate at a very shallow depth and that could get pretty uncomfortable if you don't have a very good level controller feeding sap in.

[maple flats]

You are not going to run that much off a 20# tank if the air temp. is very cold. The propane needs to vaporize to fuel the burners. Vaporization is directly related to the temp. of the propane and as it vaporizes it is cooled too. In addition to temperature vaporization is related to the surface area in the tank. A few years ago, I tried with no luck (correction, only bad luck) to run a propane heater on a 20# tank. It would not run at all, later I connected it to a bulk tank (I think mine is called a 50 gal. tank, but not sure) and it ran fine. The surface area was the issue. Did you ever notice how a propane fork lift carries it's tank? They are laid flat, that is to have a bigger surface area.
When you use propane from a 20# tank too fast, it loses it's ability to maintain enough vaporization to support a larger fuel demand as the fuel cools. One option is to connect 2 or 3 tanks all to the same fuel line, another is to get a bigger tank, with more surface area.
As far as price, I run my 2x6 finisher, my 16" x 24" canner and my 2.65 GPM tankless hot water heater (heating to 130 degrees) all off one 50 gal. (?) tank and it never lacks fuel pressure for all to work at the same time. The tank has a high pressure regulator and that feeds a 1" black iron pipe (manifold). The 1" black is 16' long and along it's length I have takeoffs for the canner, a 500,000 BTU torch (to light the arch), my finisher, my tankless water heater and an aux. burner at 180,000 BTU. While I have never tried to run all of those at the same time, I have run the canner, finisher and HW heater at the same time. I use this all maple season and I have never used over $100 worth of propane, in a maple season, and I never run out. In the unlikely event I did run out, I also have another tank connected to my 5th wheel RV on site and I could move that to the sugarhouse, slung from the bucket on my tractor in about 15 minutes it could be connected to the sugarhouse.
I realize that most of those who use propane to fire an "evaporator" do not need this much, but some using propane and multiple burners would benifit from a larger tank. Besides, I just call the propane co. and they come fill the tank. I actually have the option to get an emeggency delivery, but I doubt that will ever be needed.

[saphound]

You are not going to run that much off a 20# tank if the air temp. is very cold. From everything I've read, I agree, Dave,...and said so earlier. And even if you could, the propane cost would kill ya. That's why I asked him if he read this whole thread. Now, putting the tank in a tub of water really helps, but more btu's = faster consumption...no way around that no matter what size the tank is. Still learning, but reading what others are doing with low pressure burners, I'm thinking that's the way to go to get the most out your propane buck. I don't think you will benefit with anything more than the double 65k burner that Karen uses, imo...unless you don't care about the cost of the gas.

[maple flats]

agreed, but if one thinks they must use propane, the high cost can be controlled by buying propane right and using every means they can to lower their costs. Such as pre heater, freezing the sap, until 1/3 is ice and toss it, and other tricks.
Sometimes it is just for the enjoyment of making syrup. We all know the aroma of the rapidly boiling "almost syrup" and it's addictive effects, after all, this is why most if not all of us make syrup.

[saphound]

Yep, you got that right. I sure didn't save any money making my own...I could have bought 4 or 5 gallons with what I spent making 1.5, ha... but I'll do it again next year. But it might be with electric instead of propane. Have you seen the E-Vaporator thread? That thing really has caught my interest.

[liljohn]

http://www.agrisupply.com/banjo-burner-and-stand/p/83715/
I forget if I posted a link or not, above is the burner I use two of them. I did 7.5 +/- gallons of syrup this year. I use as many tricks as possible pitching ice, etc. Next year I am building a small RO. I think it should cost less than $300 and this should reduce my fuel by 75% so it will pay off in s year or two. I plan to only produce 10 gallons a year.

[Soggy Syrup]

Hey Rangdale, what are your pan dimensions/capacity? Do you find your burners to have plenty of power or do you want for more? I am interested in using a setup similar to yours. (Post17)

[Rangdale]

My pan is roughly 2x3 (I think the actual dimensions are 25x37) and holds about 15+ gallons if I fill it to the rim but usually run it with about 4 gallons. I think the amount of heat is fine but I wish it were more dispersed. It boils like crazy directly over the 6 burners but not as much in the spaces in between. I've tested the evaporation rate and it's 6+ gallons an hour so I haven't worried too much about where it isn't boiling. It's definitely not super fast but I added an RO this year which made it so much better.