Can't believe 28 inches of vacuum 3/16

[5050racing]

Just ran what I wanted to do earlier,3/16 450' run maybe 35' elevation drop and this is what happened!!!11321. I know I will be retubing some of my system but I will compare my other 5/16 line I installed a gauge on it but the little flow slowed that started as I was running the 3/16 and some critter needed to chew on something n was a good thing I went to install the gauge and fond the break missing 7 taps running on the ground n the tubing was under some snow at least from Friday maybe longer,will post what I find on the gauge later.

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

Crazy stuff. Ran 10 taps Sunday on a 20' elevation drop had 14" half hr after installing the gauge be curious to see how high it goes. Have 25+ taps on 5/16 and saw about the same flow and bubble movement. Going to install a gauge on the 5/16" and compare the vac. I have 13 taps on a 5/16 line and another 10 tap 3/16 both lines are side by side want to compare them too. Oh and when I had two 10 tap 3/16 runs flowing I saw different bubbles on one and walked the line and on the 3rd tap back from bottom I had a spout leaking and believe it or not I could hear the tap whistling tapped it a few times more and bubbles slowed down.

[Starting Small]

Can you guys post a video of your collection tank as the 3/16 is flowing in? I am curious at the drip rate, thanks,
-Dave

[5050racing]

So new to vac,should there no bubbles at all?

[psparr]

There will be bubbles in the line. Shouldn't be moving fast though.

[GeneralStark]

There will be bubbles with vac. as the trees give off gases. They should move slowly however...if moving rapidly you likely have a leak upstream.

[psparr]

https://vimeo.com/123042870 http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/23/253ec041c96e9b1854f9adb5d524f81f.jpg

[5050racing]

I was going to video it but need to delete no room but will do,that sap only started to flow at 5:30 when I was doing it trees were tapped already so as I started it started n I tried to stay ahead of it it was fun only 7 taps n it was rippin

[5050racing]

Yeah they were just moving with the sap should be good! Thanks!

[psparr]

And with 28" you probably don't have any leaks. Don't you just love free vac. It's a God send for us cheapos.

[5050racing]

Thanks for the help!!

[Starting Small]

https://vimeo.com/123042870 http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/23/253ec041c96e9b1854f9adb5d524f81f.jpg
Holy God that is great, I underestimated what 3/16 can do. How much of a drop do you need to get that kind of vacuum?
-Dave

[jimsudz]

That is amazing. I plan on setting up a small bush for next season. Planned to do it this year but haven't closed on the land yet.Looks like the volume of sap from 30 taps is impressive.

[psparr]

30' drop is the max vacuum you can achieve. More doesn't hurt, but it won't increase.

[Starting Small]

30' drop is the max vacuum you can achieve. More doesn't hurt, but it won't increase.
So is it one inch of vac for each foot of drop?

[psparr]

I believe it's .88 something so maybe a little more than 30'

[Paul VT]

I believe it's .88 something so maybe a little more than 30'
.88 per foot of drop is correct.

[killingworthmaple]

I keep thinking about the vac pump amd releaser companies what are they gonna do?:cry:

[cbmapleguy]

I keep thinking about the vac pump amd releaser companies what are they gonna do?:cry:

3/16 won't help anything if you don't have the slope.

[lpakiz]

They're gonna keep selling equipment to those of us that don't have 30 feet of drop. Like 7 feet of drop in 600 feet of mainline. Very envious of some of you guys......

[5050racing]

The best part is it gets me out of climbing up to collect the buckets and gain more sap n streamline operation,so if I work late at everyday job someone can pump tanks or I will increase size of tanks as to not overflow! And installing it's like stringing fishing line just about!

[Clinkis]

Amazing, I sure wish I had a bush with that much slope to try it.

[Daveg]

Was the tap "whistling Dixie", because they don't do much sugaring down South?

[5050racing]

This place is to help everyone the little guy the big guy and I guess your neither, coment somewhere else please! Daveg!

[Diesel Pro]

I understand 30" HG at the upper end of the line, but what do the ones that are say 10-20' lower run at? I'll assume it drops off as the elevation drop declines where a vac would pull same at all?
I'm hoping to get a call and a visit from local expert to start planning for next season.

[5050racing]

Not a expert but read every foot of drop = .88 of inch of vacuum so u can figure it out that way or subtract it,so as you move down every foot of drop subtract 1" of vacuum my set up I have 4 trees close in elevation n one just below it then run 350' to collection drum n get 28",so most taps r in the 25-22" the total drop is about 30' a d 25 of it after the last tap.

[killingworthmaple]

Ya your right I guess I was thinking most people have slope.

[log cabin luke]

The 3/16 tubing is great. I have about 650 on it this year and I also run 1550 on vacuum. My vacuum set up is running at 21". I figure that my natural vacuum set up is running some where around 16" on average for every tap. The 3/16 is amazing in what it can do when it is all leak free. It has run at the more or less same pace for 3 straight days with out a freeze. If I had no leaks my 3/16 would be pulling on average about 24". Even with a vacuum gauge I can walk a 700 foot line 4 times and run my hand down the whole length of tubing and look at it very close and hit all taps with a hammer and I can not find the leak. A line that should be doing 25" is only pulling 4". It can drive a guy nuts. I have about 17 lines out. I think 3 lines are only pulling about 4" and the rest are about 18" to 28". So all and all I am very impressed but I just want to let people know that if they don't have all the time in the world to find leaks because they're a one man show and they have 3000 gallons of sap to boil do not plan on having every line at 28". I plan on never buying another 5/16 line for the rest of my life only 3/16. I am interested to see peoples results with the 3/16 and a small vacuum pump. I think that is the answer for a larger system. If I were to set up a 3000 tap bush which is likely some day I am planning on setting it all up on 3/16 and using a lot smaller than average vacuum pump on it just to over come those small pesky micro leaks.

[DrTimPerkins]

I understand 30" HG at the upper end of the line, but what do the ones that are say 10-20' lower run at? I'll assume it drops off as the elevation drop declines where a vac would pull same at all?

On 3/16" tubing, the larger the drop the greater the vacuum. So a tree that has only 10' drop to the tank (or mainline) will only have a max of 0.88" Hg/ft x 10' = 8.8" Hg, whereas a tree higher up on the same line at 30' drop to the mainline could have a max of 0.88" Hg/ft x 30' = 26.4" Hg.

Pumped vacuum (if not on 3/16" and with little appreciable natural vacuum on 5/16") will not show the same pattern, but will tend to get progressively lower as you get further from the mainline regardless of the drop in elevation.

Natural vacuum works just the opposite way that pumped vacuum does. Natural vacuum will be higher (better) the further one gets from the mainline or tank. Pumped vacuum will get progressively less as one gets further from the mainline. Hybrid systems (natural vacuum set up on pumped vacuum) will show varying levels of vacuum from the mainline to the tap, but will generally get better as one goes from the mainline out (assuming they are set up correctly).

[5050racing]

Thanks Dr for the comments it's great to have a expert keep a eye on us!!! The 3/16 is unreal just collected most buckets I have 10 buckets were 1 -3 gal the 3/16 run 5 trees 8 taps 20 gal or more drum overflowing !!!

[coyote]

Log cabin luke,
If you do find any leaks, what are the causes? Are they animal damage, bad connections to fittings, loose spiles, etc.?

[theguywiththename]

having 2 sets of lines with 30' or more drop, the number one source of leaks for me is the leader clear polycarbonate spouts. I've had probably 6-7 of them blow the faces off for some reason (no human intervention), another 7-8 that have had smaller leaks where the tubing meets up with them. So far this year they have caused me a lot of grieve, enough to make me consider changing to a different spile altogether mid season. Other then that I had a couple of leaks from when I first put mine together which only took running boiling water over them to fix.

[log cabin luke]

Coyote,
I think the leaks are mainly caused by the tap hole. I am running both D and G 3/16 taps and CDL 3/16 taps. It would appear that the 12 or so lines that are all D and G are running well with no leaks. The 5 lines that are CDl and some D and G are not doing so well. The CDL taps seem to get loose easier and flex alot more. It also would appear that care in drilling the hole is alot more important than with a vac set up. The 3/16 does not have the CFM's to over come even the smallest leak. On the lines that are working well it is amazing. I highly recommend it.

[5050racing]

I'm using the check valves 2-3 years ago I bought them n no trouble I only install 50-60
A
Year I use a plastic hammer gently?? I don't reuse them