looking to set up on vacuum

[boondocker]

I just have a couple questions about the setup on a vac. system. First off can I put my vacuum pump in my sugar house and have my releaser 200 ft. away at the end of my pipe line. I'm looking at using a 5cfm pump. Next question is how do I stop my releaser from freezing up at night or is that just normal that they do? I have done some research and from what I gather it is 1cfm per 100 taps???? I'm only looking to do about 125 on vac for now. Any pointers or suggestions good and bad would be appreciated. Thanks.

[maple flats]

The vac pump and the releaser do not need to be together. Many shut off the vacuum a while after things freeze up but some run the vacuum all thru the cold to catch the first drips when it thaws. They do however shut down for extended freezes. My vacuums run by gas engine, I try to judge the fuel to run out 2-3 hrs after the freeze is forecast. Then I restart just as the temp goes above freezing the next time. Freezing will not harm the releaser.
The 1 cfm per 100 taps is only good if you keep the system leakfree. A safer ratio is 1/50 taps. Even then you still need to stay on top of fixing leaks, but it does give a little leeway.

[Fiddlehead]

And try to use a larger size pipe to carry the vacuum from the pump to the releaser. Use 1.5 inch pipe or at least 1.25. You would otherwise loose cfm if you went with 3/4 or 1 inch pipe.
Good luck!

[VT_K9]

This is our first year on vacuum. We have a 30 cfm pump in the sugar shack. We ran about 750' of 1 1/2" poly pipe to the releaser located in the sap shack in the woods. It seems leak free as the vacuum stays steady for the 2-3 minutes I can stand and watch. My concern would be that you are using a 5 CFM pump. I am not the one to ask about what you will end up with at the end of your lines, but I think you might come up a little shy. However some vac. is better than no vac.

Mike

[BreezyHill]

Anything can be done it is just a mater of design to get the most of your pump.

Since you are talking a relatively small pump (5) CFm you don't need to go super sized on the vac feeder line from the pump to the releaser but the distance you are talking is a factor that increases the size required. I.25 will do the job on 200' for the reason of frictional losses. 1.5" will supply more balance tank size....5.5 gallons so this could be a benefit to get the releaser back to desired vac level much quicker.

This length will also acts as a balance tank to bring the releaser back to desired vac level quicker after each release of sap.
Quicker cycle means less surges of sap in the line = better vac transfer = more sap.

Releasers do freeze...Mine is a glass dairy releaser so I am very cautious of it and try to keep the sugar house warm when it is having to run. I manually turn on my pumps when the temp is near freezing depending on the amount of sun....bright sun and see goes on at 28-29 degrees over cast and I wet to at least 30 and even 31. the sun warms the tubing to start the thaw. When it starts I want vac levels to get things rolling faster, since moving sap will thaw the ice quicker than stagnant sap.

I have a rotary dairy pump that tests at just under 6 cfm at 28". I have several ladders and the unit this year has been running 800 taps. My system is checked for leaks on run days and the ladders only add about 0.3 cfms of injected air on 10 ladders; but my releaser is electric and makes vac when it dumps. Mechanical releasers consume CFMs on each dump.

I still use the 100 taps per cfm rule as a standard. If your system is tight and checked often you can go higher. If your system is layed out for maximum flow and vac transfer you can go higher yet.

If your system is prone to leaks due to poor connections, tees rather than Y connectors, undersized mains, then I suggest you stay below 100 T / cfm.

125 on a 5 cfm is very doable as long as the releaser is not a pig and you have swing checks on the mains off the releaser. This will keep vac in the main while the releaser dumps and a priority circuit to the mains is a great way to negate the interruption of vac to the mains while dumping.

The biggest suggestion is to visit other producers and to have a memory file or pic file of what they did that worked well and draw on those designs to build your system for your operation.

I have to do things different than many due to the slope of my property, the brook that runs past the sugar house and freezes lines before the bush freezes, the style of releaser and pumps I use. Yes my system is unique but it works well, I am already past 30% of last seasons production. Will it work every where...parts will while other parts are not needed. I don't have time to go and pickup sap along our road and the vandalism is an annual issue, just repaired a sap ladder that was shot by a shot gun, all but one line of six risers was damaged and two spouts had drops pulled off. I was able to tell there was an issue as the vac levels dropped; so off to the bush to check for an issue.

I run a stand by pump so that when vac levels drop more than 2" The second pump is started and the issue is searched out as soon as possible. If I am the only one boiling then I have to wait for a relief boiler which is often one of my two school age sons( 17 & 18), 22 is back to college from spring break.

Most important thing on adding vac is you will get more sap...much more so be ready for it with added storage and boiling capacity or hours. If it isn't fun you wont want to do it.

I had to boil last nigh to clear out all the storage tanks. It was not fun having to thaw valves and lines with temps in the low 20's and I quit at midnight with two hours of boiling left; but when everything is working well things go smoothly and we can boil off ROed sap in a matter of 4-6 hours.

Ask any questions you want and I have pics and can get more if you wish.

There are no stupid questions...just stupid answers...but we all need a laugh now and then!

Ben

[Cider Hill Maple Farm]

11494

Hi folks,

I'm going to post with a similar question here on this thread. The attached photo shows one of our sugarbushes which contains 545 taps with the potential of several hundred more. I'm roughly 2000' down a discontiued road from a power source, where on the left of the road I have one 300 gallon collection tank that could run downhill back towards the Vac. pump. On the right side, the terrain is up and down, I have another 300 gallon tank approx. 200' down over a knoll from the road with a 20' elevation change. Looking at several ladders to get back to a booster which will tie the left and right side of the road together 1200' from the electric releaser and Vac. pump. I forgot to mention a third area that will need to be collected, this is just off the left side of the road with the same up and down terrain as the right. I collect this section now with four 55 gallon drums in the low areas, would I use ladders at these low points and jump across the road to the main line to the right?

Here are the questions.

1) At 1200' from the releaser and Vac. pump, there will be a booster tieing the left and right side together, at some point either the left or right side will need to jump over the road, is 1-1/2" pipe ok or 2" ?

2) Would a 15 CFM Vacuum pump be large enough?

3) Really don't want a wet/dry, should I?

Any replys would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Shawn

[Cider Hill Maple Farm]

Sorry Folks guess the pic isn't going to open.