Leader clear check valves tip coming off?

[Marvel26]

I have had 3 check valve tips pop off in the last few weeks...has anyone had this happen to them? I pulled them out with needle nose pliers or in one circumstance I drilled it out as it was stuck in solid.

11239

[maple flats]

I put in 1320 of the CV2, had 1 break off, zero tips came off. How are you tapping them?

[Marvel26]

I use a Leader 5/16 tapping bit and gently tap them in just until the sound changes with a small rubber mallet

[maple flats]

Yours must be from a different batch than mine.

[Russell Lampron]

I put in 700 of the CV2's and had the heads break off of 5 of them when tapping them into the trees. I was using linesman's pliers to drive them in at first and then switched to a small hammer after breaking off the first 3. I'm thinking it was a defect in the spout. I haven't had any of the tips break off.

[Marvel26]

The tips aren't "breaking" really, the small end that holds the stop ball in detaches and stays in the tree....it would slide right back in place if I could get it out of the tree without damaging it.

from what I'm hearing on this thread I may just have a bad batch.

[adironmaple]

Was at Leader last week to pick up a few little things and couldnt help but see a large quantity of boxes full of cv2 spouts on the floor next to check out . The boxes were all banged up, some taped some not. I made a comment to the person at the counter about the boxes of spouts looking like returns. The counter person said they were returns(5 boxes of 3500ea) . We have used cv2 for 2 years, last year we put in 3750 and thete were issues with some having pin holes in the corner of the cross. This year we put in 13000. Dont have the exact count but we had many quality issues. Tips coming off, tip being much larger outside dia then tappered part, ball stuck in spout, tip hole closed from molding. Add to that the spouts that break and even worse the ones that crack and dont break that you have to track down later.
When you pay 30-40 cents( depending on discount) each you expect not to have issues with quality that cost you time ans sap!! We will be switching out next year to a different companies spout.

[spud]

Last year I had no issues with my 6000 CV2 spouts. I know many others did have issues with pin holes in the head of the spout. LEADER was FULLY AWARE of the problem and I and others assumed they fixed the problem. Turns out leader had the problem fixed with the pin holes but there was still a problem. Instead of Leader recalling all spouts that were still on the shelves they decided to just keep selling what was in stock. Other maple dealers also sell these spouts but they come from LEADER. The other company's should have sent every CV2 spout they had back to Leader AND DEMANDED QUALITY. Some company's like D&G did not send them back and just kept on selling the CV2 spouts knowing that they could have a problem. I can assure you that the returned CV2 spouts that are brought back to the dealers by angry customers will be resold to someone else. Leader already has a bad reputation of selling over priced junk and their reputation just keeps getting worse. There will always be some who want to buy American Made only and I understand that. But if the American maple company cannot make quality (And they cannot) then we have to go North of the border.

Spud

[adironmaple]

So Spud what did use this year?

[brookledge]

I guess I'm lucky. I bought this years supply last year during the spring sale. Didn't have a single one fail. I have had more issues with cv1 with the prongs being misformed causing the check ball to come out. I still use more cv1 than cv2 but as I replace drops I have been switching to cv2. It will be interesting to see how leader responds to this
Keith

[Russell Lampron]

Other than the 5 that broke I haven't had any problems with the CV2's. This is the first season that I have used them in 100% of my orchard. They are performing well and I feel that I have fewer micro leaks with them compared to the CV1's and stubbies. Because I can maintain higher vacuum levels this season I think the additional sap that I am getting will more than cover the $2.00 worth of spouts that broke. I do feel that the ones that broke on installation were a defect and not user error and shouldn't have happened.

[Jim Brown]

Due to the problem you guys are describing I only us the standard black check valves. I spoke with a particular leader dealer and they will not use the clear only the black due to the tip coming off when they pull taps as well as install! Leader needs to go back to the drawing board!

jim

[adk1]

I agree, I onlu use the cv1 spouts. I will however switch over to the cv2 when I start replacing my lateral lines since I will not have to by the stubby as well. I have a few years yet so I hope they get it figured out

[GeneralStark]

I used 400 of these this year as I have been curious to try them out. Only broke 2 due to over driving the spout, and no leakers. I did notice that the tip on a few seemed loose, and did have one pop off. The whole tip of the spout was slightly deformed.

So far I am happy with their performance but I am somewhat concerned about the tip coming off in the tree when pulling spouts...

[n8hutch]

I have been avoiding Leader stuff all together. I think its over priced & I have heard too many stories, I use Lapierre & CDL tubing & Fittings. Never had a problem with fittings breaking, granted I don't run high vac either. I would like to in the future. Anyone use the Lap clear CV spouts?

[spud]

So Spud what did use this year?

I used the clear CV2 spouts again this year because I was assured the pin hole problem had been fixed (and it was). I believe in the research from PMRC on these spouts. I believe higher yields can happen by using the CV2 spouts. Although what I do know for certain is that Leader and D&G continue to sell CV2 spouts with pin holes in them. I have already pulled countless spouts out of my woods this season because of this. The right thing for Leader and all other maple company's that sell the CV2 spout is to throw away every CV2 spout that was made last fall when the problem started. They should have told all dealers to stop selling them and get them off the shelf. Kraft Mac and cheese pulled all their product off the shelves last week due to some problems they had. They did the right thing and I respect that. LEADER and D&G knew since last year that there was a major problem with their CV2 spouts. They continued to sell every CV2 spout they had knowing there would be some people that are going to get pin hole spouts. Thats wrong and thats bad business. Please don't get me wrong because there are some great people working for Leader and D&G. The sales people take the heat for the corporates bad business tactics. The countless spouts that you saw returned back to Leader will most likely be sold to someone else. We will hear of people having the same problem next season for sure. Last year Leader made no effort to go public about the bad spouts they were selling. What they did do is replace the bad spouts that a customer would bring in with good spouts. It did not matter if you had lost production or not. It was the customers problem to go back into the woods and track down all the pin hole leakers at the customers expense.

Spud

[GeneralStark]

I have been avoiding Leader stuff all together. I think its over priced & I have heard too many stories, I use Lapierre & CDL tubing & Fittings. Never had a problem with fittings breaking, granted I don't run high vac either. I would like to in the future. Anyone use the Lap clear CV spouts?

Leader is the only company that makes a Check-Valve spout. Other companies do sell it as Spud has said, but I don't believe LaPierre does.

[madmapler]

Of the several spouts that broke on me this year(not my real concern) all of the tips stayed in the tree and had to be drilled out so I'm wondering about pulling taps this year also. Not to go completely off topic, I have to question their business practices over not publishing in their catalog that their new quick seal saddles aren't intended for black pipe. I found out after installing over 100 of them. They could have notified the dealers not to sell them for that purpose but failed to do so. My dealer had to ask them about it. I decided to give them a try seeing as how they were already installed and I'm hoping for the best but I'm definitely not impressed with Leader.

[WESTMAPLES]

haven`t had any problems with leader cv2 pinholes, breakers and other problems ive used leader products with no issues yes they are priced higher but cheap isn`t always better either so ill stick with them since i have great luck and im no rich farmer with no need for flashiness either!!! everyone is different tho i just want to make great syrup and grow/ double production every season and the CV2 helps me do that good luck and hope others don`t run away from the challenge

[n8hutch]

Well I guess I had a moment of catalog fogg. I swore that I saw some in there. Turns out if was something else. I have some 3/16 runs I was thinking about putting CV spouts on next year. I guess it makes sense that leader would have some type of patent on them.

[collinsmapleman2012]

i put in 2500 of them this year, no problem. I ran the clear lapierre taps last year and they were a nightmare. check valves are the way to go. if you can make even as little as 5% more sap with them, they will pay for themselves. most people see even higher gains than this, and I have seen it first hand. when the check valve originally was introduced, we set up a couple collection vessels to track the difference between taps, and the check valves yielded at least twice the amount of sap consistently, for at least 3 years in a row.

[DrTimPerkins]

We put in close to 3,500 of the CV2 this year. Had a handful break, which is pretty much average for any polycarb spout we've used from any manufacturer. Nearly all were broken by one tapping crew member who will only use the same framing hammer (not a tapping hammer) that he has used for 20+ yrs. Of the bunch I put in for some experiments, I broke one. It was near the end of the day, I was tired and hit it poorly and broke it.

We do have a small number of tips and balls come out and stay in the tree when the spouts are pulled. If that happens, just leave them there. They won't hurt anything and you'll likely do more damage when you try to dig or drill them out again.

We have consistently seen higher levels of production from CV spouts (of either version). We buy our spouts off the shelves at Leader Evaporator Co. like anyone else....they aren't any special "hand-picked" version for us. We had no leakers last year or this year. Our woods are currently at 28" Hg vacuum.

UVM holds the patent for the CV spout; Leader is the sole licensee. They use the concept to design and manufacture the spout. They can sell through other dealers if both parties wish, or can sub-license to other parties if they wish. I know nothing about reselling of old product that was pulled last year. To my knowledge, the stock was pulled and destroyed and a new quality control program put in place to check for production issues. Polycarbonate is definitely a more challenging material to mold these parts from due to air inclusions....you can spot them in almost any type of clear spout.

[GeneralStark]

Dr Tim - About what percentage of the tips have stayed in the tree in your experience? I can see your point that they will likely not harm the tree, but I do feel this is an unnecessary trait of these particular spouts. I see why it happens and certainly think it could be fixed.

[spud]

UVM holds the patent for the CV spout; Leader is the sole licensee. They use the concept to design and manufacture the spout. They can sell through other dealers if both parties wish, or can sub-license to other parties if they wish. I know nothing about reselling of old product that was pulled last year. To my knowledge, the stock was pulled and destroyed and a new quality control program put in place to check for production issues. Polycarbonate is definitely a more challenging material to mold these parts from due to air inclusions....you can spot them in almost any type of clear spout.[/QUOTE]

Dr.Tim- The defected CV2 spouts could not have been pulled last year. I just bought mine this year and many have pin holes in them. Last year Leader said they fixed the pin hole problem and it was something in the mold. I believe they did fix the problem but they sure did not throw away all the spouts that were in question. Leader had a very good idea as to when or what batch number the defected CV2 spouts started having problems with pin holes. From that batch to where the problem was fixed they should have thrown all of them out. Leader also should have notified other dealers that are selling CV2 spouts and told them to send all CV2 spouts in question back for an exchange. The batch numbers are on the boxes so it would have been a quick thing to do. I am glad PMRC did not get any bad spouts because this could have affected the research being done. There is a reason CDL doubled it's sales last year to 26 million dollars and continues to grow. Although their not perfect they sell quality product and they have very good service. These are two things Leader is lacking. I can assure you if you had your own sugar woods and had to use your own money you would not shop at Leader.

Spud

[DrTimPerkins]

Last year Leader said they fixed the pin hole problem and it was something in the mold. I believe they did fix the problem but they sure did not throw away all the spouts that were in question. Leader had a very good idea as to when or what batch number the defected CV2 spouts started having problems with pin holes. From that batch to where the problem was fixed they should have thrown all of them out. Leader also should have notified other dealers that are selling CV2 spouts and told them to send all CV2 spouts in question back for an exchange.

I have no more info than you have (and probably actually less), so I have no idea where the issue is coming from or why it continues to be a problem.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr Tim - About what percentage of the tips have stayed in the tree in your experience? I can see your point that they will likely not harm the tree, but I do feel this is an unnecessary trait of these particular spouts. I see why it happens and certainly think it could be fixed.

I've not quantified it in our woods (I will this year), but I'd say it is less than 5%. It might have something to do with when they are pulled, now they are pulled, and/or the condition of the tree (actively growing, dry/wet) at the time, but can't say for sure since we haven't personally seen a lot of it happening.

[PARKER MAPLE]

11313

This is just a small amount of the tips that I saved. I feel like there's 100s in the woods that came apart and not really impressed about what's going to happen when I pull taps. Leader needs to do something to reimburse the consumer on this. I bought check valves not a clear seasonal spout?

[village idiot]

Yep, thats what happened to mine too. When pulling them out of the tree last year I had many tips stay in the tree. I would estimate about 5% of them. I did break 1 tap when placing it, the rest failed when removing them. I got several bags of 100 taps each from Bascoms and it seemed like some bags would have a lot of failures, others wouldn't have any. I think it is either a design or quality control issue in that the tip is not really attached to the spout, it is only pressed in place. I only tap 750 trees so I remove all of them in one afternoon (I don't think it is a problem due to a tree characteristic since they are all in a 15 acre clump). When I cleared and walked the lines in Feb I made sure to cut out the bad ones and replace them. I'm interested to see what happens to the failure rate this year (stay at 5%, or are the taps out there now proven to be good ones.)

[mellondome]

What size bits are people with problems using? 5/16, 19/64 or 9/32?

[Marvel26]

I freshened 103 taps this morning....another 8 or 9 of them came out tipless.

I use the Leader 5/16 tapping bit that was suggested for the CV2's.

[mellondome]

Freshened?

[Marvel26]

I may have used the wrong term....pulled the tap, ran the drill in the hole a bit and put the tap back in. This was an effort to get sap flowing. in the 103 taps I have out since the first of march I have only collected 80 gallons of sap.

[WESTMAPLES]

im just going to point out that the CV2 is a 1 year use and replace them the next season, my point being that if they worked without any other issues than coming apart after being removed wouldn`t that be minor issue since they are used, you sap yield has been determined, and just have to plug into the tee till replacement??? ive bought bags of CV2 from bascom for myself and 2 other small time guys without serious problems yet just seems everyone is beating on leader over already comfirmed issues, like anything there will be drawbacks with a new spout that has 3 pieces instead on 1

[GeneralStark]

I personally feel that if you pay $.40 for a seasonal spout it should not come apart in the tree. Regardless of whether or not it "hurts" the tree, it is just bad business to produce something that doesn't do what it is supposed to do. A spout is supposed to come out of the tree. Period.

In terms of the leak issue, I fortunately got lucky in that department but I can see why others would be frustrated.

[village idiot]

I was not under the impression they were a seasonal tap. To my eyes, most of the benefit of cv's is that the sap flow stays high on years 2-?

[CampHamp]

My experience last year is that if I pull them out straight and fast, they do not break. If I ever wiggle it or need a couple of tries pulling it, then it weakens the head and the tip will come off.

[GeneralStark]

My experience last year is that if I pull them out straight and fast, they do not break. If I ever wiggle it or need a couple of tries pulling it, then it weakens the head and the tip will come off.

I think you are right on the money. I started pulling taps this morning and I use a LOAC spout puller that I got last season and it really works well. Pulls the spout out quick and straight and so far I have not had a tip come off in the tree. I pull the taps with vac. on to rinse the lines and it's amazing how much sap I am still getting. Shut the vac. off and nothing. This always impresses me during spout pulling time. Too bad the trees have budded.

[unc23win]

I have noticed the same thing as General and CampHamp I bent my puller handle at more of an angle because I noticed they required a little bit longer stroke to get them out in one shot. Once I modified my puller I never had another one come off last season.

I however did have tips come off in the T-Cups this year when I was pulling them out to cut them off before installing new not really a big problem until pulling taps because the tip is stuck in there so in order to use the cup you have to get the tip out. I am using small needle nose pliers to pull it out. I am guessing they come off because of the wiggling required to get them out of the cup and the glue is breaking down over the off season (I had heard they were glued maybe not true). I would say about 1 in 5 came off in the cup so far. Doesn't bother me nearly as much as it would if they came off in the tree.

[Russell Lampron]

I pulled 500 taps this afternoon and none of the tips broke off. My son in law did have a couple break off when it was still cold out while he was making repairs. Maybe it's a temperature issue.

[WESTMAPLES]

pulled 387 leader CV2`s with a 20 oz estwing framing hammer with no breaking had a couple laterals broke loose like a bear or moose ran thru and the tubing pulled off the T`s luckily

[heus]

About 50-75 out of my 825 cv2's broke off in the tree this time when removing them. This happened randomly sometimes when pulled strait out sometimes when twisting them out. I don't recall having this problem last year.

[sapmaple]

I use CV 1 W/stubby and pulling taps yesterday under vac sap was running quite well hole stills looks nice and fresh And by the way I turn my vac off each night when its freezing up and turn it on in the morning when the temps up to 35 or 36 degree's I do this because I have 4 double mechanical releasers and they don't like ice So I've said the jury still out on my feelings about the CV but the jury is in and I'm convinced that they work and are worth the money Can't speak to the CV2 but I think they will get the bugs worked out, I still prefer the CV1 not interested in cutting of drop line and trying to install a new spot in cold weather
Oh as a side note I still have all my balls :lol:

[Marvel26]

I pulled 80ish taps yesterday evening using a longer claw hammer in one stroke/pull....no issues. I think Russell is dead on, when I did my repairs the temp was well below freezing. If the tips are frozen in there obviously would be more stress on the joint.

[DrTimPerkins]

About 50-75 out of my 825 cv2's broke off in the tree this time when removing them.

When you say "broke off", do you mean that the stem actually broke, or that the tips came out? How are you removing them?

[Russell Lampron]

I finished removing my 700 cv2 taps this morning and none of the tips broke off. I had the heads break off of 5 of them while tapping and 2 tips break off when doing repairs but other than that I had no problems. The sap was still flowing strong until the end and because of the lack of the micro leaks that I had with the cv1's and stubbies I got more sap. I am sold on the cv2's and will be using them again next year.

[Marvel26]

When you say "broke off", do you mean that the stem actually broke, or that the tips came out? How are you removing them?

My experience is that the tip which holds the ball in separates from the main spile. Not really a 'break' more of a parting of the two pieces.

[Homestead Maple]

Quite a few of the CV2's that I used this year didn't have the tip pushed all the way into the spout body. I haven't pulled any of them yet but the tip is a smaller diameter than the body so I don't expect to leave any of the tips in the tree. We'll see.

[Amber Gold]

I'm done pulling taps, and I installed 300 CV2's this season. I had say 5 of them break where the stem meets the head of the spout and probably another 5 where the stem broke at the bark line. Only a couple of these could I get the rest of it out of the tree...the others wouldn't give and are still there. I used a spout puller for the initial try and a pair of pliers to get the leftovers. Overall, I'm happy with the spouts...less in-season maintenance than the CV1, but not a big fan of them breaking off in the tree.

[heus]

Dr. Perkins the tips came off and stayed in the tree. Like I said I used various ways to remove them and had failures with both pulling and twisting them out. The ones I used this year definitely werent as durable as last year's, using the same pulling methods.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Perkins the tips came off and stayed in the tree. Like I said I used various ways to remove them and had failures with both pulling and twisting them out. The ones I used this year definitely werent as durable as last year's, using the same pulling methods.

We are just starting to pull spouts today, so I can't comment on the difference between last year and this year since I don't know yet. We did have a few come out last year, but as I recall it wasn't very many. The tips are NOT glued in place, they are simply a press-fit. I don't know anything about the manufacturing end, so can't tell you whether the process changed in any way.

We use a couple of different spout pullers (mostly Lapierre with a 36" handle)....never hammers or pliers. In general, any spout should be pulled straight out, without being bent or twisted. Less damage to the tree that way. Polycarbonate spouts definitely grip the tree better, so sometimes it really takes a sharp snap to pop them out.

It would be better to just leave the tips in place than trying to remove them...

[markct]

Dr Tim im just curious but why is it ok to leave the tip in when traditionaly I have always heard plugging tap holes with a cork, dowel etc was a bad practice? Not that I ever have as its enough work to pull 1300 taps I sure don't wana start having to stick a cork in etc lol just was curious how this can be ok for the tree when they say plugging the hole is bad?

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr Tim im just curious but why is it ok to leave the tip in when traditionaly I have always heard plugging tap holes with a cork, dowel etc was a bad practice?

Two things. First, the tip is all the way inside the taphole where it is not near the cambium (zone of growth) where it might interfere with ring growth like a dowel or cork inserted in the taphole would if it were put in the taphole. This would result in delayed wound closure at best or infection at worst. Second, since the CV tip is plastic it will not soak up water and rot to form as a source of infection like cork or a wooden dowel would do.

[lakeview maple]

Out of 500 I used this year I had 1 break while putting them in , user error there I hit it at an angle. When I pulled them I had 2 leave the tip inside . I didn't have an issue other wise and plan on using them again next season.

[turnpike]

Put in 600 of these spouts in my 850 tap woods. Had zero break and didn't detect any leaks. Had only one tip come off when pulling them. One issue I did have, however, was many of them, at least 1/3, had a small piece of wood chip stuck in next to the check valve ball which didn't allow the ball to close. I didn't notice this until partway through pulling spouts, but I got alerted to it after pulling one spout that had sap in the dropline and the sap ran back out through the spout after it was pulled and hanging down. Then I started looking closer and sure enough a lot of them had a tiny piece of wood chip in them. If you sucked on the tip of the spout you could pull air through it. Wasn't real happy to see this.

Now, I try to be as careful as I can in drilling holes. I used a brand new tapping bit, 1.5 inch holes, and tried to make as clean of a hole as possible, but as it only takes the smallest piece of debris to clog the check valve I'm not sure if I'll keep using the clear check valves in the future. Anyone else noticing this? Am I doing something wrong, is there a way to get a debris-free taphole 100% of the time?

[PARKER MAPLE]

We put in almost 700 of these this spring. I think personally there are way over priced for what you are getting and here is why. When you drill your hole and set your tap, you had better make sure like mentioned before that it is clear of any and all debris. Or it will find its way to the check ball and either plug it up and stop flow( 2 did this all season) or stop the ball from operating ( like mentioned before). While setting the spout we found best not to be tapping when cold low 20s or you can almost bet that you will put a hair line fracture in the striking surface that will cause a leak. When you pull the taps from the bag, better make sure the tips are snapped on all the way, or they could come off in the tree (apprx 20-25) still inside in my woods. I'm not all that impressed with these spouts, I'm sure they gave a little more, which is what I was looking for. But the headaches along the way I can do with out. I'm going with the simple operation of the straight spout again next year. Nothing to obstruct the flow or crack when tapping. Here is why. I still maintain a full time job and strictly do this after my work is done in the evenings or when time allows. I don't have lots of time to devote to chasing leak, and defenatly don't have time to back through and change our brand new leaking spouts. Keep in mind fellow sugar-makers sometimes simple is your best choice. Well for me anyways.
Just my option and 2cents
PM

[GeneralStark]

Of the 397 CV2s I installed this season, 8 tips stayed in trees. After examining them more closely, it seems that most of the tips in the batch I got are well secured in the spout body and can only be removed with serious effort. But, quite a few are loose, and either stayed in the tree, or when pulled they were half way out of the spout body. How you pull them certainly appears to be a factor, but how they were manufactured or assembled seems to be a larger factor. It seems strange to me that some are loose and some are tight. Hopefully Leader will get this issue sorted out.

One other manufacturing issue I noticed is about 10 of the 400 I purchased (3 broke due to over tapping) had deformed tips prior to installing them. The ball still seemed to function so I used them but the tips were oddly deformed. I'm not sure if these were the ones that were more likely to have the tip separate.

I didn't run into an issue with wood chips affecting the ball but I did have a few that were clogged with bio-slime. I suspect this formed recently due to the on/off of the vac. pump since the season ended. I do pull spouts on vac. to rinse the lines. So, I don't think this affected overall productivity of those tapholes but not totally sure.

Overall I do think these spouts did what they are supposed to do. I used them side by side with CDL smart spouts on new drops, and even after I stopped boiling due to off flavored syrup, I was still getting impressive quantities of sap from both spouts. The tapholes in both situations are still as crisp and clean as day one.

I am not super impressed with the manufacturing issues and defects with these spouts especially given the price. I may use them again in the future but I will generally be sticking with new drops and seasonal spouts for my taphole sanitation methodology. I have about 200 taps I installed this season so I may use them in that section next season, but everything else is getting a new drop. I will also be adding more taps for next season.

[turnpike]

I'm going to try and keep using the CV spouts as I do think they are a proven method of getting increased production, when they are working properly. Also I set my woods up with long droplines in order to accommodate 10 years of cutting off disposable spouts and my plan was to use the CV's and not replace the drops every 3 years. I am discouraged after seeing that it only takes just the smallest piece of wood chip from the taphole to bind in next to the check valve ball and not allow it to move. Doesn't seem like too many others are having this issue so hopefully I can adjust something to make super clean tapholes. Hopefully the manufacturing process will improve year next as well, and we'll hear about fewer problems with the CVs through the course of next season.

[turnpike]

I should clarify, the wood chip debris that I saw in the spout sometimes clogged the works enough to not allow the ball to move at all, but more often it just didn't allow the check valve ball to seat properly and sap would, it seems, be able to leak around it back into the taphole. Not sure if there would be some kind of partial benefit to a leaky valve.....probably not.

[Homestead Maple]

We put in almost 700 of these this spring. I think personally there are way over priced for what you are getting and here is why. When you drill your hole and set your tap, you had better make sure like mentioned before that it is clear of any and all debris. Or it will find its way to the check ball and either plug it up and stop flow( 2 did this all season) or stop the ball from operating ( like mentioned before). While setting the spout we found best not to be tapping when cold low 20s or you can almost bet that you will put a hair line fracture in the striking surface that will cause a leak. When you pull the taps from the bag, better make sure the tips are snapped on all the way, or they could come off in the tree (apprx 20-25) still inside in my woods. I'm not all that impressed with these spouts, I'm sure they gave a little more, which is what I was looking for. But the headaches along the way I can do with out. I'm going with the simple operation of the straight spout again next year. Nothing to obstruct the flow or crack when tapping. Here is why. I still maintain a full time job and strictly do this after my work is done in the evenings or when time allows. I don't have lots of time to devote to chasing leak, and defenatly don't have time to back through and change our brand new leaking spouts. Keep in mind fellow sugar-makers sometimes simple is your best choice. Well for me anyways.
Just my option and 2cents
PM

You mentioned the possibility of hair line cracks if someone was to tap when it's below 20's or so. I use a small hammer with hard rubber inserts and I didn't have any problems when I tapped with the temps in the low twenty's to teens. I don't like tapping at those temps but sometimes you don't have a choice. When I hear that people use a steel hammer to put in clear poly taps I cringe.