Newbie - first timer

[67HEAVEN]

Hello to everyone here.

I have joined the wonderful world of maple sap harvesting. We bought this property in Northumberland County eight years ago mainly for the space and the trees, never imaging that we'd tap.

It suddenly occurred to me late last fall. Why aren't we tapping these big old maples? It wasn't far from that thought to buying some basic equipment and tapping for the first time just about a week ago.

I've collected 75L of sap from one 80-90 year old sugar maple and three 50 year old silver maples. My first small learning boil resulted in 700 mL of very dark, thick syrup. I believe I let it boil a few minutes too long. Although it didn't burn, it will barely pour due to the thickness. It has a very strong maple flavour, which isn't all bad. ;-)

When I run my next boil tomorrow, I'm considering dumping the first run back into boiling sap to re-boil it properly. Any reason not to?

For this small-time hobbyist, I found the ideal cooker. It puts out more heat than I can use and will bring a 3/4 full pot of sap to a rolling boil in about 10 minutes at about 1/4 open. It ought to be great for boiling corn in late summer.
http://i58.tinypic.com/2zggqp3.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/nzm62t.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/vq4r2q.jpg http://i62.tinypic.com/2z9jk1w.jpg

[Galena]

Welcome to the madness 67Heaven! If you scroll down the homepage you will come across a section titled Tapping-Canada and there are all kinds of sub-forums, like for Central Ontario, Eastern Ontario, Northern Ontario and so on. That's where you will find the rest of us Canuckistanians and who knows, maybe some of us are close by :-)

ETA: re re-boiling the first batch of syrup with fresh sap - sure, no reason not to. Just watch that you don't let it boil over 220 (at absolute max) for too long or you will end up with lots of crystals. Otherwise looks very much like how my setup will be going, once my trees kick into gear! Like you I also have a very small but very productive sugarbush. Amazing what just 6 trees can produce.

[crazyjackcsa]

You can pour it back in if you want. What I would do is pour it back in when the second batch is close to finished. You may create sugar crystals in the bottom of that one. I did that one year. Looks like a good set up.

Next year you'll be looking for more maples to tap, and figuring out where to put the shack!

[Run Forest Run!]

Welcome 67Heaven! Love your setup. Make sure you don't keep the lid on that pot when you are boiling your sap as it will take much longer to reduce the sap. If you want, keep the lid on to speed up the initial boil, but after that you're delaying the process.

Like the others said, there's no problem in adding your syrup to your next batch. Or, you could put that syrup back into a small pot on the stove and add some fresh sap or water to it to thin it down a little. That's a really fast way to fix it and you don't have to wait long to enjoy it.

[67HEAVEN]

Thanks for the kind welcome. I ran my second batch today and watched the last few minutes of the boil much more closely. The result this time is syrup thin enough to pour and much lighter in colour. Also, I took the advice and added some sap to my first batch. It's re-boiling now.

Batch 2: From 32 litres of sap, I got roughly 1.2 litres of syrup. Perhaps I should have boiled it a bit longer but I was worried about getting it too thick. We'll see when it cools.
http://i58.tinypic.com/29129z7.jpg

Fun way to pass the time while thinking about Spring.

[Maplesapper]

Oldtimers seem to speak about letting the syrup sheet off the spoon to know when you are done

[brass maple]

Yes sheeting is a good way to find out if it's syrup. Just have to remember to check it often. If you don't have a syrup scoop use a metal hamburgh flipper, it works better than a spoon. Have fun with making syrup.

Matt

[67HEAVEN]

Oldtimers seem to speak about letting the syrup sheet off the spoon to know when you are done

Is there a way to describe 'sheeting'? What does it look like?

Thanks.

[Cedar Eater]

Is there a way to describe 'sheeting'? What does it look like?

Thanks.

This might be what you're looking for.

7513

You dip a little syrup into a flat scoop or onto a flat spatula, let it cool a little in the air, and then tip it up so the straight edge is horizontal. The syrup tries to hold together as it flows off, instead of just dripping off.

[brass maple]

If you use a flipper and dip it into the boiling syrup then take it out and hold it strait up and down so the flat part of flipper is down, you will see the syrup start to slide off the flipper like a sheet of syrup. You might get some drips to start with then the sheeting. If it doesnt do it in about 10 seconds then probably not ready.


Matt

[67HEAVEN]

Thank you Cedar Eater and brass maple.

That explains it perfectly.

[67HEAVEN]

I now understand why many people use removable-top food grade 5 gallon containers for temporarily storing their sap rather than the water containers that I have (see my original post in this thread).

The containers had plenty of ice in them this morning (-7ºC), but only a small screw top opening to get at the ice. If I had been using open top containers, I could have lifted plenty of ice out and saved a lot of boiling time. Lesson learned.

[Cedar Eater]

I now understand why many people use removable-top food grade 5 gallon containers for temporarily storing their sap rather than the water containers that I have (see my original post in this thread).

The containers had plenty of ice in them this morning (-7ºC), but only a small screw top opening to get at the ice. If I had been using open top containers, I could have lifted plenty of ice out and saved a lot of boiling time. Lesson learned.

I've been using 4.0 L glass jugs and I found that I can pierce the center of the ice block with a long wooden spoon handle and pour the concentrated liquid out. Then I can break up the ice and shake the bottle until it comes out. That might work for you.

[saphound]

Hi 67Heaven,
My first year too. I've had the same problem at the tree site. I didn't have enough clean buckets so some of them have plastic milk jugs to collect in. Can't get the ice out. If not frozen solid, I can break it up and pour out the liquid like Cedar Eater said, and replace with an empty container and bring the other one inside and when the ice melts I discard the water. If you have some buckets to pour into, I'd try that if you can't shake the ice out.

Edit: Btw, I like that propane burner you have..where did you get it? Is there a brand name on it?...thanks.

[Sugarmaker]

Oldtimers seem to speak about letting the syrup sheet off the spoon to know when you are done

Hey,
I resemble that remark!
Dip the flat scoop into the hot syrup and hold it up to let the syrup run off the horizontal end of the scoop. If it runs off in drops its not ready. If it aprons which is a large drop that goes from one side to the other its ready. (apron: That's what my dad called it, the shape of grandma's apron.)
Regards,
Chris

[67HEAVEN]

Hi 67Heaven,
My first year too. I've had the same problem at the tree site. I didn't have enough clean buckets so some of them have plastic milk jugs to collect in. Can't get the ice out. If not frozen solid, I can break it up and pour out the liquid like Cedar Eater said, and replace with an empty container and bring the other one inside and when the ice melts I discard the water. If you have some buckets to pour into, I'd try that if you can't shake the ice out.

Edit: Btw, I like that propane burner you have..where did you get it? Is there a brand name on it?...thanks.

Thanks. I think my ice problem is solved.

The propane stove is a King Kooker Model CS14. I got it on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/King-Kooker-CS14-Portable-Single-Burner/dp/B00080MJ3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426792472&sr=8-1&keywords=king+kooker+cs14

I've boiled through 17 gallons of sap and have used one-and-a-half 8 kilogram propane tanks (the standard size BBQ tank). I'm very impressed with the stove. It assembles without tools except for one small nut requiring a wrench. It can be taken apart without tools and easily transported. It can throw out an amazing amount of heat.

[saphound]

Thanks for that info 67Heaven. Hmmm..I boiled about that much, maybe a few gallons more, on one tank that still has a little left in it. But it took me hours longer. Must be your btu's per hour is way higher, but it comes with a price. I'll have to ponder that for a bit...

[Galena]

I was just about to ask what the BTUs were. Many models out there are only around 45k BTU. Mine is 60k BTU; Karen, aka Run Forest Run! has, I think, a 65k BTU.

[saphound]

I'm still torn. I'd love to shave off some boiling time, but it will require spending another hundred bucks or so, and more propane to do it. The propane cost increase isn't that big of a deal..prob 5 bucks. But I do plan on building a block arch before next season, (masonry is my trade, btw), so I don't think buying a temporary gas burner is justified at this time. I do, however,
reserve the right to change my mind if I want to, lol. :lol:

[67HEAVEN]

Today was best day yet. I got a bit over 7 gallons of sap from 4 maples. I think I'm in love. :lol:

[67HEAVEN]

Knowing the cold spell was on its way for Sunday and Monday around here, I decided to get some pails with a full lid, rather than the water containers with small screw-off spout I was storing the sap in. Woke up to a nice layer of ice in the new pails and saved myself some boiling time by discarding. The ice actually formed a thin layer across the surface, but was even thicker down around the sides of the pail and came out as a cylinder.

The water containers are being cleaned out and are going back to holding water only. :lol:

The syrup we had on our oatmeal this morning makes me wonder why I wasn't doing this years ago.

[67HEAVEN]

I can't remember which other thread I read it in, but the amount I'm paying for tanks of propane is obscene compared to what I read is the price at Costco. I paid $CA23.99 at a local gas station. I'm sure I read that Costco in Ontario is charging $CA9.99. Can anyone confirm that?

[Run Forest Run!]

Yes, Costco is charging $9.99. :D The local Home Hardware's rate this year is $17.00. I didn't check anywhere else after that.

[67HEAVEN]

Yes, Costco is charging $9.99. :D The local Home Hardware's rate this year is $17.00. I didn't check anywhere else after that.

Thanks, Karen. Although the nearest Costco is 30 minutes from me, I can see now that timing an errand trip to cooincide with propane fill-up will be a real money-saver. Summer BBQs and early-Spring sugar off burns will be far cheaper.

Hey (I say trying to rationalize the hobby), I'm actually saving money. :lol:

[Run Forest Run!]

I also travel 30 minutes to my nearest Costco. I'm smiling all the way there as I'm filling four tanks at a time. Plus, I'll score a hotdog and a drink for lunch. :lol:

Oh, and since I assume you're going to the Peterborough Costco, make sure you top up your car with gas when you're there - you know - to help the rationalization that you are saving money by sugaring.

[ridgerunner394]

I agree the trip to costo (Peterborough for you 67) is well worth it! Under $10 for a 20lber and $4.xx for a 10 lber. I went to our local Home Hardware in Port Hope 67Heaven - they refill and have big "we price match gaurantee" outside on their bill board but guess what? They refuse to price match propane ..... so off to Peterborough we go :{)

[jrm]

Today was best day yet. I got a bit over 7 gallons of sap from 4 maples. I think I'm in love. :lol:
Today is my best so far, too, and I'm quite jealous of yours... 7 taps yielded roughly 1.5 gallons. But, my 7th tap finally is dripping. Only 7-ish gallons total so far.

[Cedar Eater]

From something that I read yesterday, Costco is supposedly only putting in 15 lbs. (3.6 Gallons) Check the fine print. It's still an okay deal on the propane on a per gallon basis, but you have to come back to the store more often and they're hoping to get you to buy more. Here's a link to what I read: http://www.orangecoat.com/the-truth-about-filling-20-lb-bbq-grill-propane-tanks.

[Run Forest Run!]

You're correct Cedar Eater, a 20lb tank isn't refilled with 20 pounds of propane. Here at my local Costco they do have a sign posted at the fill station that says they are only able, by law, to put 18 pounds of propane in a 20 pound tank. I weigh my tanks both coming and going and Costco always puts 18 pounds of propane in my tanks. No other retailer here will fill a tank with 20 pounds either, so I guess it's all the same when you compare prices. That was an interesting link. Thanks for posted it.

[67HEAVEN]

Moving propane tanks around in a vehicle has always been a concern in the back of my mind. Any opinions on this stability solution available at U-Haul for $7?

http://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/Safety-emergency/Tankfoot?id=3284
http://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/StoreHandler.ashx?media=2843&id=3284

[67HEAVEN]

I took advantage of the really cold weather to get rid of a bunch of ice. This has to save a lot of boiling time...says this innocent newbie. ;)

[saphound]

Me too 67. Now that I have a sap hydrometer, after removing ice the last 4 mornings, I have 10 gals of sap reading just over 3% now..instead of just over 1 when I collected it. I hate to do a batch that small but now it's been stored 7 days. It's been ice cold..hoping to double that the next day or two and then do a boil. Going to single digits tonite, but then a nice 40's/20's forecast after that.

[67HEAVEN]

Forgive me for posting obvious photos, but this first-timer is amazed at how much ice can be removed from a full bucket of sap after a couple of cold days.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2prih52.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/21j14j8.jpg

It was thick enough to keep its shape after I lifted it out. I can really appreciate the benefits of a fully removable lid compared to the type of container I was using earlier. By the way, I got these containers at a local bottle-your-own wine store. Brand new for $3 each including lid. They simply arrive with the bags of wine extract stored in them so they've never even been wet. Hard to beat that price.

[saphound]

Well I'm certainly no expert 67, but that might be a little too much ice to throw out. My buckets were frozen like that so I saved the ice, thawed it out and tested it at .6 brix. A little skim ice on the top I have been tossing, but I think you're tossing a good bit of sugar when it's that much ice. I'll let others chime in now, but that's what I think..I could be wrong.

[67HEAVEN]

Well, saphound, I'd certainly like to learn if I should be saving it. Don't want to waste sap. Although I've seen the term brix on this site, I confess to not understanding its meaning.

[Clinkis]

Well I'm certainly no expert 67, but that might be a little too much ice to throw out. My buckets were frozen like that so I saved the ice, thawed it out and tested it at .6 brix. A little skim ice on the top I have been tossing, but I think you're tossing a good bit of sugar when it's that much ice. I'll let others chime in now, but that's what I think..I could be wrong.

At .6% you would need 148 litres of sap to make 1 litre of syrup. So if you had a 5 gallon pale of melted ice and boiled it down you would get about 130ml of syrup. So, yes you are losing some sugar, but you are doing ALOT of boiling to recover that little bit of syrup. I guess if your using wood and have lots of time then maybe it's worth it. But since most hobby sugar makers have limited time and resources it's not worth the hassle especially if using propane as a fuel source.

[saphound]

Hello Clinkis, yes I know what you're saying, it's not a lot of sugar...I sure wouldn't want it all to be .6 But he's only tapping a few trees, (like me),..sap gets a little more precious if you know what I mean. Also, the 10 gals or so that I got before it turned cold is now reading just over 3% due to removing some skim ice the last 4 days. So I poured the quart or so of .6 ice water back into my storage tank, as well as some frozen solid sap from my other buckets. I had a little sugar room to spare. And I can only speak for myself, as a first time hobbyist, but when time and resources become a problem, I'll go back to buying syrup. But you know there ain't no goin back. ;)

67Heaven, As far as the brix scale goes..there's lots of info available on that, and again, I'm just learning myself. But think of it as the percentage of sugar in your sap. Simplified, if 2% brix takes 40 gals of sap to make 1 gal of syrup, 1% will take 80 gals, .6% close to 100 gals...but it will still make good syrup. The only way to know if your ice is worth keeping is to test it and decide for yourself. I've read here that some do and some don't. Thin ice is mostly water and good to get rid of. Thicker ice contains more sugar, and solid ice has ALL your sugar. If it were less than .4 I'd have probably chucked it. If I had 80 taps on vacuum and 70 buckets goin, I know I would've chucked it. :cool:

[Clinkis]

You can use your brix number to calculate you ratio of sap to syrup. It's called the rule of 89 (or 86 depending where you are). So your bucket of melted ice that you measured at .6% you use this brix reading and divide 89 by that so....

89 / .6% = 148. Therefore your ratio is 148:1 (so it's quite a bit more then 100)

The first sap I was collecting this year was 1% brix so.....

89 / 1% = 89 Therefore my ratio was 89:1

My sap is normally around 3% brix so.....

89 / 3% = 30 Therefore my ratio is 30:1

This is how brix is used by sugar makers when dealing with sap to determine how much syrup they can make. As you can see, small changes in brix make drastic differences in how much syrup you can make. When you get into using an RO it becomes even more apparent. Last weekend I was running my 100 gallons of 2.4% sap through my RO and getting it up to 12% so....

89 / 2.4% = 37 Therefore my ratio was 37:1 before the RO

89 / 12% = 7.4. Therefore my ratio was 7.4:1 after the RO

So instead of boiling 100 gallons I boiled 20 gallons.

As far as weather it's worth saving .6% ice from your sap....I guess that's up to the individual. I know I would dump it if I didn't have an RO. My 1% first collection of the year I probably would have dumped it if I didn't have the RO. But I use propane and my time is limited so it just wouldn't be worth it to me but I understand not wanting to waste it.

[saphound]

Thanks for reminding me of the Rule of 89, Clinkis..you're right, it's a lot more than 100. Here is one of several other threads on the subject of bucket ice. Some keep it, some toss it, some decide by how thick it is, (what I do), some partially thaw it, etc. In this case we're talking about very small amounts, and that makes a difference too, I think. :cool:

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?25432-survey-how-many-of-you-throw-away-the-ice

[67HEAVEN]

I agree the trip to costo (Peterborough for you 67) is well worth it! Under $10 for a 20lber and $4.xx for a 10 lber. I went to our local Home Hardware in Port Hope 67Heaven - they refill and have big "we price match gaurantee" outside on their bill board but guess what? They refuse to price match propane ..... so off to Peterborough we go :{)

I dropped by Costco in The 'Shawa for some propane this afternoon. Here are my pricing results.

Bought three new 20 lb. tanks in the store for $29.99 + HST each, empty. I also paid to fill these new tanks. Here's a propane price comparison between Costco and the gasbar at The Independent in Port Hope:

Costco: (Propane - $9.99) + (Environmental Fee - $1.60) + (HST - $1.51) = $13.10
Independent: (Propane - $23.99) + (Environmental Fee - included) + (HST - $3.12) = $27.11

Each refill at Costco cost $14.01 less than at The Independent. So, for three tank refills, I saved $42.03 (in after tax dollars). That's equivalent to saving at least $55 to $65 before income tax (depending on income tax bracket). :lol:

Costco claims to fill the tank to 80% of capacity (to allow for expansion) and it took an average of 16.4 litres to fill each new tank, at a cost of $0.55 a litre. I actually overpaid by a few cents on each tank because they charge you $9.99 in-store for the refill when you buy new empty tanks. Based on the propane quantity, they only should have cost just over $9.00 each. I probably could have received a refund for the difference if I had gone back in with the slips.

However, just to be clear, when you re-fill at Costco, you take the slip in after the fill and then pay what the slip actually shows.

Thanks to those who posted the information about Costco selling propane. I never noticed they did until now.

The next thing I'll do is weigh a full tank from Costco and compare it to a full tank from The Independent.

[Run Forest Run!]

Hey 67Heaven. Regarding Costco's propane they have different filling options depending on where you fill up. The one in Barrie is like the one in the Shawa - they charge you for how much you get. The Costcos in Newmarket and Brampton charge you a flat fee of $9.99. In other words, no partial fills if you arrive with a tank that has a little left in it. I can't say for sure, but my best guess is that those Costcos are enroute to some of the traditional cottage areas and customers might often be arriving there to top up their tanks on the way to the cottage for the weekend and wouldn't necessarily always have an empty tank. But then, what do I know. :lol:

I'm so glad that you are saving some major ca$h by filling up at Costco. I saved $28 on four tanks last week. I weighed each tank when I got home and had received 18lbs per tank.

[67HEAVEN]

I just weighed the tanks and the average tank from The Independent gasbar is 0.8 lbs heavier than the average tank from Costco. I guess that makes my savings a tiny bit less too. http://i39.tinypic.com/123nqcn.jpg

Meanwhile, colour me stupid. By removing all the ice I mentioned earlier, I dramatically changed the boiling time required to achieve syrup. I turned around for too long and I burned a medium-sized batch to the bottom of the pot and stunk the remaining liquid up. Smelled like burnt socks.

Just threw it out. Another lesson learned. http://i50.tinypic.com/34y1bnm.jpg

[67HEAVEN]

Everyone here has probably thought of my idea already, but I'll present it anyway. :lol:

I track my progress on an Excel spreadsheet (columns left to right; rows top to bottom)
Column A - Date
Column B - Litres collected that day. Row 6 (due to spreadsheet titles and headings, etc.) happens to be the first date I collected. So cell B6 was the litres I collected on my starting date - March 12th
Column C - U.S. gallons that day. I use a formula rather than manually calculating from the number of litres. Formula used in that cell is =(B6/3.785)
Column D - Imperial gallons that day. Again, I use a formula rather than calculating from the number of litres. Formula used in that cell is =(B6/4.546)

Each row (7, 8, 9, etc.) below those is just a repeat of the formula, adjusted by one row down....so cell B6 in the formula becomes B7, etc. There is an easy way to repeat the formula with a simple mouse drag. Ask if you need it.

I have other columns relating to amount boiled on that day, and finished syrup achieved, etc. but the point is the use of forumlae to convert from litres to gallons is a real time saver.

Simply this first-timer's attempt at giving something back to the helpful information on this site.

[67HEAVEN]

Now that I've acquired a sap hydrometer and a syrup hydrometer, I'm running around the yard measuring anything and everything that moves.

Cold sap from our neighbour's Manitoba maple - 2%
Cold sap from our Silver maples - 2.75%
Cold sap from our one Sugar maple - 4%

Next boil, I hope to have far more confidence about when it's done, now that I also have a syrup hydrometer.

Is there a support group for mapleholics, cause I think I'm gonna need it.

[Cedar Eater]

Is there a support group for mapleholics, cause I think I'm gonna need it.

We're your support group. You were looking for enablers, right?

[Run Forest Run!]

Now that I've acquired a sap hydrometer and a syrup hydrometer, I'm running around the yard measuring anything and everything that moves.

Cold sap from our neighbour's Manitoba maple - 2%
Cold sap from our Silver maples - 2.75%
Cold sap from our one Sugar maple - 4%

Next boil, I hope to have far more confidence about when it's done, now that I also have a syrup hydrometer.

Is there a support group for mapleholics, cause I think I'm gonna need it.


...and so it begins. :lol:

[Snappyssweets]

Hello my name is Bruce and I am a mapeaddict.
It started when my buddy said, "Hey you have a lot of Maples why don't you tap them and make some syrup?"
I thought hmm may give me something to do in spring instead of waiting for ice out to go fishing.
I seen my jugs filling with sap. I boiled my sap to my first quart of syrup and the only thing I could think of is "Oh this is as close to heaven as a married guy with kids is ever going to get, before hes dead anyhow." <glances around to be sure his wife is not in the crowd.>

So anyone else want to get out of here and go lick off the bowls and utensils with me in the kitchen? :lol:

[67HEAVEN]

So anyone else want to get out of here and go lick off the bowls and utensils with me in the kitchen? :lol:

I'm there. LOL

All my pails were close to empty this morning. Temperature was +3*C at 6:30 a.m. and is +5*C now. As this is my first year, does the sap just stop running at times, in spite of being above freezing, or am I done?

[Run Forest Run!]

You are nowhere near done. It was warm last night and the trees will run again tomorrow morning after it dips below freezing tonight. Enjoy your 'holiday' today because it's back to the sap buckets again tomorrow and the rest of the weekend. :) Expect to see good sap for at least another couple of weeks.

[67HEAVEN]

You are nowhere near done. It was warm last night and the trees will run again tomorrow morning after it dips below freezing tonight. Enjoy your 'holiday' today because it's back to the sap buckets again tomorrow and the rest of the weekend. :) Expect to see good sap for at least another couple of weeks.

Phew! http://i57.tinypic.com/xwrrd.jpg

Thanks, Karen.

[Cedar Eater]

Confirming what Karen said. If it stays above freezing all night, sap can flow all that night and all the next day, but will often quit before the next night. If the next night goes below freezing, flow may start the next day, but if not, it will stop until another sub-freezing night happens. It's like the freezing nights recharge the sap pump.