ATV vs. Tractor?

[RoundAboutSugaring]

Hi, we have been sugaring for about 8 years in a very small scale setup. Well this year we built a large new 28x14 sugar house, with a 14x8 retail room with a loft on top. We have about 50-70 trees/taps on our property. We plan to expand to about 200-300 taps using someone else's property.

Well enough with the background here is the real question.

We are on a very tight budget. We want to get either a compact tractor with a bucket or an ATV and trailer combo. I can't spend over $3,000.

So what are your thoughts? Does anyone use an ATV or does everyone use a tractor.

Thanks a lot!

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

I would probably get the tractor if I could find one for that price, just because if you have a bucket it would be SO handy to have for other uses too! The reason I say it might be hard to find one for that price is because I am GREEN Bias all the way, but that's just myself, I'm not saying that you won't find one. I know they're out there.

But on the other hand, an ATV would be great for getting around because of its size and manuverability and it would still pull a small tank.

I think that it would be easier to find an ATV for $3000 though.

[maple flats]

I use a 4x4 truck for remote pickups and a 4x4 tractor for in my woods. Many also use an ATV and some even use horses. You should study your situation, terraine, distance, tank size etc and go from there. It sounds like you could easily use either depending on what you find in your price range. You might find it hard to locate a tractor with loader in 4x4 at that price, can you navigate with 2 wheel and chains, I use a 4x4 tractor and at times I need to put chains on all 4's. Do you get that much snow where you are and as the mud season gets going can you get thru with 2 wheel and chains. A horse might be the answer but then you need to feed him every day, Belgiums are nice, check the teeth first! Ha!

[RoundAboutSugaring]

Oh and it has to also weigh less then 3000lbs. I want to get a tractor. I found a Yanmar YM1500 for $4000. But my partner in sugaring wants to get an ATV and spend as little as possible. I also want to get an ATV for other around the house chores.

It also has to have very good floatation. There is a lot of mud and a marsh/swail I have to go through to get to the trees.

[Fred Henderson]

You can get the ATV now but later will will go for the tractor.

[RoundAboutSugaring]

Ahh good idea! Then in a couple years I will have both a tractor and an ATV.

[royalmaple]

I think for that money you might be better off with the atv and you'd get more machine for the money at your budget, the 3,000 tractor may not be worth hauling home and most atv's are pretty much bullet proof.

Plus if you are going through a marsh and super muddy areas, I think you'll get through them easier with an atv. I know my tractor likes to find the bottom of the mud, and if it was some bottomless pit you'll be lugging the sap out by hand that day and going to get the tractor in july if it dries up.

But tractors are handy as hell, I built tons of implements for mine and bought other stuff and I wouldn't be without it. Happens to have green paint on it, but never ran the others but they are all good, just depends on preferences.

With a couple hundred taps, you may just have to make a couple runs with the wheeler. Still not the end of the world, I've done a lot worse.

[325abn]

Not sure how much of a tractor you can get for 3K !! Might be able to find a decent running 8N or somthing along those lines. I will be using my 8N this year but then agian I have very easy terrain. (blacktop)!!

Go for the ATV, but get a big one with shaft drive for sure!!!!!!!!

[mcmp]

Keep you eye out for a used Bombardier Pony Skidder. I have a 251cu in 6 cyl Chrysler Industrial engine and 4 speed New Process Transmission. The Hydraulic system is 20gpm @ 2000 PSI. I have the Power Angle Snow Plow, 8 foot Ameriquip Back Hoe, Valby Hydraulic Chipper, 7 foot Ford Hydraulic Snow Blower, Braden HU-8 Hydraulic Winch rated at 8000#, FM/CD Music, Heat and Comfort in the Cold. It goes anywhere. I have seen them for sale used for $3000 bare machine. Watch the Machinery Trader Sheets. This is a all season pony skidder, not a trail groomer. The Bombardier will get up in your Bush where a tractor or ATV will not go, any weather any season.

Paul

[Sugarmaker]

That is a cute track unit!
Chris

[RoundAboutSugaring]

Wow that is pretty nice! Where did you pick it up? What are the machinary classifieds in the Vermont area?

[tapper]

A utv is way more useful and more versatile than an atv. They are a little wider than an atv which hinders manuverability but they are more stable. with the heavier payload of a utv you can mount a tank right on the machine opposed to hooking on a trailer. The loaded machine will go more places than pulling a trailer unless there is just no bottom to the road. Where I have good roads the tractor is perfect but most of my taps are in a bad place, bad roads, rough rocky stream bottoms and muddy logging roads and the utv is the only way to go.

[mcmp]

Wow that is pretty nice! Where did you pick it up? What are the machinary classifieds in the Vermont area?

I bought her 15 years ago down in Kingston NY. Stripped her to the last nut and bolt and totally rebuilt her. I have a Cummins 4BTA CPL 857 Diesel that will go in her hopefully this summer. I work her hard, she earns her keep. Check Uncle Henrys Paper (New England) and also the Machinery Traders you see in the Gas Stations/Truck Stops. I grab them once in a while and see these Bombardiers listed.

Paul

[Russell Lampron]

If you buy the atv make sure you get a 4 wheel drive one and put a winch on it if it doesn't already have one to pull yourself out when you get it stuck. I have a Honda Foreman with winch, snow plow, oversized mud tires and a small trailer. I put two 35 gallon tanks on the trailer for gathering sap. I also use the trailer which is fitted with atv tires and wheels for hauling sap buckets and tubing supplies. When I'm not using the atv for work I use it for play which is alot of fun. The wife isn't too happy when I come home covered with mud though.

Russ

[ibby458]

Like Russ said, go with the 4x4 atv, but be sure it's gear drive. The newer belt drives don't hold up as well to HEAVY hauling (As per my dealer!). You'll want good tires on it. I find the ITP 589 to climb trees if you want to. Beware - they'll also dig you out of sight faster. THat's where the winch comes in!

[Brad W Wi]

I have both .The atv is a polaris 6x6 and is a real work horse for something it's size. The tractor is a 52' Allis Chalmers WD I've been working on to restore.I pull a trailer with both.If you get some sloppy days the tractor will tear up the woods. But if I was down to one or the other the tractor would win out. It will handel wet snow better as it has the weight.

[southfork]

I have used them all. My favorite as far as usefulness and friendliness to the sugarbush roads is my Polaris 6X6. It is on it's 4th year. It can easily pull a 225 gallon sap tank , full. My Ford and Kubota tractors are now used for other things.

[H. Walker]

I wouldn't say NO to a 4x4 atv with belt drive. I have a Arctic Cat 375 Auto that I haul a trailer and a 160gal tank with and never a problem. It's going into it's 7th season with the original belt. Maybe it's because it's made in America and not Asian Crap!! I do have several tractors that I can and do use, but my Wife won't drive them. So some times all 1300 taps are gathered with the Cat, and the terrain is less than ideal.

[SUGARSMITH]

Word of warning. I had a Yanmar 1501D and mechanically I never had a problem with it, The problem with it is its weight. When I pulled almost anything in the snow or mud, the tractor would start to bounce as the tires lost traction, rendering it almost useless especially pulling a wagon. I tried weights and other things but didnt help out much

[The Sappy Steamer]

I have both a tractor and a Honda 4x4 atv with a snowplow and winch. I use the atv with a tandem axle trailer that also has atv tires on it. It'll go any place I need to go and doesn't tear the place up much.I also put a set of ITP tires on it. My only gripe with the atv is it has electric shift. I won't own another one with it. It needs to be in neutral to start and doesn't like to go there when you're on a hill, so you have to rock back and forth on it to get it to go in. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for a horsey ride

[RoundAboutSugaring]

We are going to look and maybe buy a 2001 Honda Rancher 350 4x4. It comes with a plow and chains all for $2700. Has anyone used one?

Thanks

[tapper]

Yep they are a real work horse. Many guys around here use them in the oil feilds and some put 15 thousand miles a year on them.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

Honda's are real rugged machines. And you being in Williston, parts aren't far if you need anything.

[802maple]

There is one on West street in Essex too unless that is the one you are going to look at, it also has a plow. I have a Polaris but Yyou can't beat a Honda in my mind. I own a Polaris but that is another story.

[RoundAboutSugaring]

No, the one I am going to look at is in Waterbury. How much is the one in Essex?

[Parker]

Another word of warning--I bought a John Deere 5520 last year 4x4 with a loader,,it had 2600 hours on it when I got it,,I looked at and tried a lot of them befor I bought this one,,it is the nicest tractor in terms of opperation and power that I have ever run (worked on farms off and on all my life) Problem is the *&^^%ing thing is always broken,,its a total piece of $hit,,it has spent more time at RN jhonsons getting worked on than I have run it,,and it just breakes itself,(Power destroyer,,I mean power reverser transmission),I put it in park,,the rig was stopped I let out the clutch and BANG there goes the parking pin,,$7800 repair (luckily I got the extended warrenty),,when the tractor came back it had a rapping in the rear end,,back to the shop,,that was a month ago and they still havent figured it out!!!!!!,,it pains me to say this BUT jhon deere stuff today is TOTAL junk---I will be trading for a Kubota this spring,,,or selling it outright,,anyone intrested,??,$24,000,,,it sure is a PRETTY tractor. About all it is good for is looking at..............F@#k John Deere

[Fred Henderson]

JD's are good but you want to be sure your dealer carries a lot of parts. Even for the big ag tractor. I go into my Bota dealer and they have very few parts on hand.

[Russell Lampron]

My son and wife both have Honda Ranchers. The one my son has is a 2002 and has been ridden hard and stood up to the punishment very well. I have a Foreman S which I like very much too. The Hondas are very dependable.

Russ

[tapper]

One major consideration when looking at these tractors for purchase is its overall weight. Most do not have it. Years ago the guys that designed and built jd and others used to be farmers and knew exactly what a tractor had to do. Today that is not the case.

[H. Walker]

Hey Tapper, how do you like the Arctic Cat Prowler?

[802maple]

I don't know how much they are asking for the one on West Street as I didn't stop, It looked good though w/a plow also. It is just past Vt State ,Forest and parks headed toward Pearl street on the right. Saw it yesterday.

[tapper]

H.,
The main reason I went with the prowler was ground clearance. I have a very rough rocky stream bottom to bring sap from. The prowler has plenty of power and has gone everywhere I have taken it especially with a winch on the front. The only 2 drawbacks with it are there is too much plastic on it, Im always putting fenders and such back on it and the handles to dump the box stick out each side and Im alway snagging them on twigs and saplings. For way less money cub cadet makes one with heavier payload and altogether more rugged build. I wish I woulda waited til the cub was available. If you want a sporty machine and have open property to run around on the prowler is a good machine.

[mapleman9000]

I use an ATV. can carry 35 gallons on the back and 65 in a trailer. Also carry a transfer pump. The trailer is low enough that I can poor buckets into it. It is very low impact, once you get a good gravel base down. We also haul all of our sap uphill to the evaporator. The ATV is a Suzuki Eiger LT400 4x4. We have chains on all four wheels, or we would not be able to make it up the hill of bad days. We also use it to plow the driveway all winter. It is about five years old and we have never had a problem with it.

[MASSEY JACK]

Hey, Breezy Lane, What's with the picture of the Krone Big 'X'.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The best of both worlds is the Kubota RTV 900 (I think that is the model #). Fred has one and it weighs 1700+ lbs and it has a Kubota diesel engine and a heavy duty truck type frame. Hauls a lot and tows even more and would probably last forever with proper care for under 10 grand.

[RoundAboutSugaring]

Just got back from buying the 2001 Honda Rancher 350. Only problem is I cant get it in reverse. Anyone know how? I did it once and that was it.

[802maple]

Yes I believe you have to go to neutral, then push a red button on the hand brake on the left down and squeeze the brake on. Then you should be able to shift into reverse.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

Well, I am a HUGE JD fan!!!, But it is a dream of mine to operate one of these some day!! I've done a lot of looking around, and I believe that the krone makes the largest capacity chopper....although the Claas is right up there too!! I've just heard that the JD kernal processors have had some trouble keeping up with the cutterhead.

[RoundAboutSugaring]

I got the reverse to work. Thanks

[Fred Henderson]

The best of both worlds is the Kubota RTV 900 (I think that is the model #). Fred has one and it weighs 1700+ lbs and it has a Kubota diesel engine and a heavy duty truck type frame. Hauls a lot and tows even more and would probably last forever with proper care for under 10 grand.


We had 2 Polaris ATV's,4x4 they would take you places where you should not be. During sugaring we used them to gather the sap after that they hauled the wood.In the summer we pleasure rode them , then there was an accident and my life long companion got hurt pretty bad. I said BS that's never going to happen again and I sold them both and got the Kubota RTV900. I have never been sorry or ever looked back. It does 100 times more work than the ATV's ever did. Last year it hauled all the sap. It hauls all the wood for the outdoor wood boiler for our home and for the sugarhouse.
True that the accident was caused by rider inexperience. I hope that anyone that has an ATV never has an accident when a loved one is involved.
The RTV is a workhorse. If it ever should roll over the driver/rider it safe because of seat belts and ROPS.

[Pete33Vt]

I am just gett the hang of my new camera and posting pictures. I figured this would be a good place for this one.
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4832/img0009mq1.jpg

We now have it in the shop doing some modifying. Snow got to meally and couldn't get enough traction to pull wagon. We made a bigger rack and installed the chains. I hope this picture comes through.
As far a tractor or atv?? I like the both idea.

[maple flats]

If it snows there like it has here for the last 10 days or so, you will need half tracks for it. I have seen some at a dealer near here.

[Pete33Vt]

Yep, we got them around here, But for the price tag of them I could get a new tractor with chains and a few other goodies. Also this atv justa little one, it wouldn't work good with tracks.