What do you need to get started

[Aggravated Farmer]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site, and to sugaring. My cousin and I are doing 20 trees and boiling the sap in a ten gallon "gumbo" pot this year.

The question is, how would you go about expanding? We already have a sugar shack that needs to be actually converted into a sugar shack. Though it is in prime location. I would prefer to tap for the first initial years by sap bucket and collect. I would prefer the wood fired evaporators since we are beginners.

Thoughts and opinions!

[PerryW]

If your going to expand to more than 20 taps, you should get yourself an evaporator. Personally, I would get an evaporator with a flue pan so that you don't spend your life boiling. They also hold their value pretty well so you can get some of your money back if you need to.

[Aggravated Farmer]

If your going to expand to more than 20 taps, you should get yourself an evaporator. Personally, I would get an evaporator with a flue pan so that you don't spend your life boiling. They also hold their value pretty well so you can get some of your money back if you need to. I reckon there are 500 taps surrounding the building that can be converted to a sugar shack. So my initial ambition for starting up will be around 250-500 taps. We have more wooded land that can easily double or triple the initial setup. So growing would be an option as well.

[PerryW]

with the potential of 500 taps or more, one option might be to get a 2x6 raised flue evaporator which would handle between 100 and 200 taps (depending on how long you want to boil). Then buy an RO machine if you want to expand further. Of course, most would recommend setting your tubing up for vacuum which (if installed properly) can double your production.

If you go old school (with no vacuum), you can do 500 taps in anything between a 2.5' x 8' to a 3x10'.

[Aggravated Farmer]

with the potential of 500 taps or more, one option might be to get a 2x6 raised flue evaporator which would handle between 100 and 200 taps (depending on how long you want to boil). Then buy an RO machine if you want to expand further. Of course, most would recommend setting your tubing up for vacuum which (if installed properly) can double your production.

If you go old school (with no vacuum), you can do 500 taps in anything between a 2.5' x 8' to a 3x10'.

I reckon it would be hard to run a vacuum line given the location of the shed. It's located about a mile off the road with no electrical lines. I was guessing that a few years with buckets and wood fire to get things going would be the best bet.

Also, we have 60 acres of wooded land and another 10 north of us (say about ten minutes in a truck, 45 on a tractor). Both are set a ways back, they are at the back end of our fields. No sheds there, assuming a gathering tank would be required to do the transport, to and fro the main shed. Would it be to much trouble to transport the sap from there? Or lease out the 60 acres that backs into another farms' property that has a setup (and a very well known and respected family own and run it).

[pennslytucky]

with that much room for expansion, id suggest you get a real good idea what the max number of taps is, then plan for that number. changing out all your equipment every year or so is a huge loss in investment and time. also, if you watch the prices on evaporators, there isnt a huge difference in cost between a nice 2x6 or a nice 3x12 (or a 4x14), and the work involved in setting it up and running them both is close to the same. both burn lots of wood, both need the same acessories, etc. im just going straight to a large evap. every year my uncle ends up sitting in front of his 2x6 at least a few allnighters, wishing he had a bigger machine or less taps...and he does 120-150.

[Aggravated Farmer]

with that much room for expansion, id suggest you get a real good idea what the max number of taps is, then plan for that number. changing out all your equipment every year or so is a huge loss in investment and time. also, if you watch the prices on evaporators, there isnt a huge difference in cost between a nice 2x6 or a nice 3x12 (or a 4x14), and the work involved in setting it up and running them both is close to the same. both burn lots of wood, both need the same acessories, etc. im just going straight to a large evap. every year my uncle ends up sitting in front of his 2x6 at least a few allnighters, wishing he had a bigger machine or less taps...and he does 120-150.

I reckon a walk in the woods is in order to figure out the number of taps I can run. I agree buying once is better than buying twice, as no one likes the idea of continuation of expansion. As farmers, we don't buy wooded ground, it just comes with the purchase. The existing lot is non-farmable, hillside and swampy to be exact. It would cost hundreds of thousands to clear and tile it. Best go buy land up for sale and ready to go than tear down perfectly good tree's that can produce a bit of income for years to come.

Are there things to look for when buying a used evaporator?

[DaveB]

with that much room for expansion, id suggest you get a real good idea what the max number of taps is, then plan for that number. changing out all your equipment every year or so is a huge loss in investment and time. also, if you watch the prices on evaporators, there isnt a huge difference in cost between a nice 2x6 or a nice 3x12 (or a 4x14), and the work involved in setting it up and running them both is close to the same. both burn lots of wood, both need the same acessories, etc. im just going straight to a large evap. every year my uncle ends up sitting in front of his 2x6 at least a few allnighters, wishing he had a bigger machine or less taps...and he does 120-150.

I've never understood that and I've had as many as 600 (that was without vacuum) on my old 2x6 with a Max flue pan. Even before that I would get about 35gph and was able to keep up. I boiled 4 days a week and start around 7:30 on Friday and boil till around 6:30pm and then shut down and repeat on Saturday, Sunday and Monday and I think I only had 1 or 2 times that I had sap left over on Monday. If you add a small RO you could do several thousand taps on a 2x6 and take advantage of the smaller firebox and use less wood, etc.

I agree though that being outfitted for your full build would be the best approach, if money is no object. I wouldn't go larger than a 3x10 to maintain resell value but something between a 2x6 (properly outfitted) and that should be sufficient.

[pennslytucky]

his arch was bought new with tin pans in 1981. he never could get more than 20 or so gal/hr. i remember a few times when he and dad were taking turns running it 24/7 for 3 or 4 days to keep the holding tank from overflowing while us kids ran around on the tractor gathering buckets, trying to overflow it haha a few years ago he went to an 8" pipe with an extra 6' and it did a lot better.

i hate to sound like a downer on the 2x6. lots of guys on here really getting a lot out of them. they are great with the new technology we have. i didnt know there were different sizes of evaporators when i was a kid...then dad took me to see a 3x12 run at the amish guys not far away. he was drawing off syrup as fast as we were trickling sap into our flue pan!! couldnt believe the white cloud coming off that thing! ive always remembered that and it still tickles me to see that white cloud roaring

[Cedar Eater]

I reckon a walk in the woods is in order to figure out the number of taps I can run. I agree buying once is better than buying twice, as no one likes the idea of continuation of expansion. As farmers, we don't buy wooded ground, it just comes with the purchase. The existing lot is non-farmable, hillside and swampy to be exact. It would cost hundreds of thousands to clear and tile it. Best go buy land up for sale and ready to go than tear down perfectly good tree's that can produce a bit of income for years to come.

Are there things to look for when buying a used evaporator?

Don't forget to count the trees that are almost big enough. They can add more than an inch of diameter every year and be ready to tap by the time you're ready for them. Also, trees get large enough to add an additional tap.

[Aggravated Farmer]

I will keep all the tips posted in mind. collected 25 gallons today from our 20 taps. I reckon a larger pan than 2x6 would be a good start for 500 taps starting out.