Anyone experiencing poor sap flow?

[LandsSake]

Hello Maple Trader!

I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing a slow start to the season. We are located in the greater Boston area and have about 400 buckets up, all of which seem to be flowing incredibly slowly. We have had 3 consecutive days with temps in the high 40s (as well as above freezing temps a few days last week), and most of our buckets have a quart of sap in them...what gives?

My current theory is that the ground and roots are still frozen, so the sap can't flow out of the roots, but I can find articles on the web that both support and contradict that theory. Does any one have any ideas? I am starting to get concerned that the season will be a bust, but am just hoping that the season is off to a later start than I anticipated.

Any advice or insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Jebediah]

Hello! Slow for us too. We are in Natick, close by. We carefully watch when your buckets go up each year (we are novices). Thanks for the guidance you didn't even know you were providing!

[Maple Douglas]

Same here, very slow flow as well.

[epd0407]

horribly slow here in Wilmington, about 130-140 taps and only 2.5 gal. Im going to tube another 20 or so today in an area that should be thawed but this is getting concerning.

[sams64]

Mostly the same here in Rowley. From what I can see the trees that are running well are larger and have better sun exposure. This makes sense as larger more exposed trees absorb more solar energy which gets the pump flowing. I am especially convinced this is the case as my flow will vary from bucket to bucket on my few good running trees based on which side of the tree they are on.

It should get going here soon. Based on the forecast I was expecting a couple hundred gallons out of 50 buckets for this weekend. At the moment this is not happening.

Has anyone measured sugar content yet? I am hoping this slow flow will mean high sugar concentrations.

sam

[DrTimPerkins]

My current theory is that the ground and roots are still frozen, so the sap can't flow out of the roots, ....

If the ground is bare, you might have had some freezing of the soil, but this is actually fairly atypical in the woods. More common with roadside trees.

With all the snow you've gotten, it is more likely that there is just snow built up around the base of the tree, and that keeps water from being drawn up into the stem. Once we get a couple of good sunny days the snow melts to form a hollow around the trunk, and water can flow better. But it is also that trees don't change temperature as fast as the air does. It might be 40-50 air temperature, but the tree is a huge block of frozen wood with some water in it. It takes some time for the tree to come up to above freezing. You might get some localized thawing, especially on the south side of the stem, but the entire stem is certainly not thawed out yet. Just give it some time....the trees have been around a lot longer than we have and have this whole "spring" thing pretty well figured out.

[adk1]

Dr. Tim, maybe you should copy your post and paste it every year..haha.

[Maplesedge]

The trees will provide, be patient. Tapped 3/6 last year and didn't get a good flow until 3/25. This winter was even colder and snowier.

Hey Dr. Tim, I heard a theory that since maples didn't make as many seeds last year, this years sugar will be higher. What say you?

[Klegrand37]

Located in north central MA. Tapped on Saturday 55 buckets and today gathered about 25 gal. As it looks rightnow by tonight I'll be able to gather another 10 maybe more. It seemed to be slow moving but I think it's picking up here now. Need only 90 more until it's time to fire the evaporator for its maiden voyage.

[DrTimPerkins]

Hey Dr. Tim, I heard a theory that since maples didn't make as many seeds last year, this years sugar will be higher. What say you?

Several studies have been done that show that there is not a particularly strong relationship between seed production and sap sugar content. We have long-term data ourselves that provides verification of that. The study you refer to did find a significant relationship, however the researchers in that case did not use sap sugar content, but rather used maple syrup production and predicted sap sugar content from that. The relationship they did find was only after the predicted sap sugar content numbers had been transformed mathematically (basically you run the numbers through a meat grinder until something interesting comes out). What they found after that process was that the three mast (heavy seed crop) years in their data had lower sap sugar content in the following spring. Of those three low sugar years (predicted again from syrup production), one of them was 2012! Can anyone think of another factor that might have affected syrup production in 2012? Perhaps it was the temperatures in the 60s and 70s in mid-March that affected production (I tend to think that is the case). So in conclusion, interesting study -- they got a lot of mileage (press) from it, but it certainly doesn't match other studies that have been done or our own data.

[hudsoncider]

Slow here too in Hudson, MA.

Just give it time I guess :)

[Maplesedge]

Several studies have been done that show that there is not a particularly strong relationship between seed production and sap sugar content. We have long-term data ourselves that provides verification of that. The study you refer to did find a significant relationship, however the researchers in that case did not use sap sugar content, but rather used maple syrup production and predicted sap sugar content from that. The relationship they did find was only after the predicted sap sugar content numbers had been transformed mathematically (basically you run the numbers through a meat grinder until something interesting comes out). What they found after that process was that the three mast (heavy seed crop) years in their data had lower sap sugar content in the following spring. Of those three low sugar years (predicted again from syrup production), one of them was 2012! Can anyone think of another factor that might have affected syrup production in 2012? Perhaps it was the temperatures in the 60s and 70s in mid-March that affected production (I tend to think that is the case). So in conclusion, interesting study -- they got a lot of mileage (press) from it, but it certainly doesn't match other studies that have been done or our own data.

Thanks Doc. Sounds like they used sloppy methodology.

[Maple mass]

Slow here in hampden also. 350 on 3/16 tubing and 162 buckets tapped 800 gal of sap very low sugar content from 1.3 to 1.8. Better days are coming!!

[WI Sugarpop]

Several studies have been done that show that there is not a particularly strong relationship between seed production and sap sugar content. We have long-term data ourselves that provides verification of that. The study you refer to did find a significant relationship, however the researchers in that case did not use sap sugar content, but rather used maple syrup production and predicted sap sugar content from that. The relationship they did find was only after the predicted sap sugar content numbers had been transformed mathematically (basically you run the numbers through a meat grinder until something interesting comes out). What they found after that process was that the three mast (heavy seed crop) years in their data had lower sap sugar content in the following spring. Of those three low sugar years (predicted again from syrup production), one of them was 2012! Can anyone think of another factor that might have affected syrup production in 2012? Perhaps it was the temperatures in the 60s and 70s in mid-March that affected production (I tend to think that is the case). So in conclusion, interesting study -- they got a lot of mileage (press) from it, but it certainly doesn't match other studies that have been done or our own data.

I read that article also and got to thinking (scary I know), that means you would have to assume that all the trees in your woods will produce seeds at the same time in each 3 to 5 year cycle. It doesn't make sense to me.

[killingworthmaple]

Slow flowing it Ct too. The trees with melted bases are dripping better. I guess we just need to wait a little longer.

Nathan

[DrTimPerkins]

I read that article also and got to thinking (scary I know), that means you would have to assume that all the trees in your woods will produce seeds at the same time in each 3 to 5 year cycle. It doesn't make sense to me.

Actually, maple trees (and many other tree species) do "mast", which is they all have a fairly synchronous production of seed. Some years tend to be very heavy seed years for almost all trees (mast years), with very little seed production in intervening years. This is thought to be an evolutionary adaptation to predation of seeds by animals. If trees dropped a steady crop of seed each year, then the squirrel population would grow in size to match the carrying capacity of the food source. By masting, trees produce such an overabundance of seed one year that the squirrels can't possibly eat all the seeds and some will survive to grow into seedlings, then the next few years they won't produce much seed at all, so the squirrel population declines. Masting tends to be regional.

[Maplesedge]

Cool. This is becoming quite the science thread.

[LandsSake]

Glad to hear that we are not the only ones starting off slow. We tend to tap our trees on the early side because our whole program is education-based, and we get help from school groups and volunteers in our community. I was getting concerned that our taps might have been drying out! Looks like we just need to sit tight for a bit longer and hope for some more good weather...

Thanks for all the help, and its great to hear about all of the research!

[MapleLady]

Located in Southern NH, yesterday's weather left me optimistic that my trees were finally waking up. Sorry to say that I did not collect more than a couple gallons from my trees today. It's hard to be patient this time of year, but we do eventually get a good run of sap. Maybe after this weekend's weather rolls through...... :cry:

[Shawn]

Slow here, yesterday pipeline started to open up some and also other trees with buckets then the winds started this morning at one in the morning and a burst of snow and the cold winds all day and they have gotten lighter but cold tonight and looks like tomorrow, two weeks left in this month then we are into April and a fast warm up will kill all of us this year, hope for the best as last year was not good for us.

[Ravenseye]

Slow here too but I'm kind of grateful since I still have things to shovel out here and there around the property!

[sams64]

Ive got another 50 taps buried int he snow and enough trees to hang most of them. If a little more snow melts I may have way more taps hung than I know what to do with, or have capacity to boil. I should probably start cutting some wood.

sam

[epd0407]

I was just out at some of my lines and they were going a mile a minute. Looks like this may be the beginning?

[Worcester]

sap from woods trees a couple days ago was about 2%, last season same area was almost 3%

Yard trees are sweet at 3%

Tapped 30 holes on some big sugars in neighbor's yard, very sweet and running veryhard.
Lines were cranking yesterday... THIS IS IT

assuming that trees ran into the evening and will stall sometime today. Going to check buckets in a bit and collect today in the rain.

[Greyfox]

We're starting slow here in central NH as well. A few trees are flowing well, while a similar sized tree 20 feet away might not be running at all. Monday and Friday of this week show promising forecasts, but we're defiantly having a slow, late start here too. Good luck.

[LandsSake]

We finally had a good run earlier this week and collected a bit over 1000 gallons of sap. Unfortunately things are frozen up again, but its looking like this weekend and all of next week should be perfect weather for another run. Now we just have to hope that the season doesn't come to an end too abruptly!

[Jebediah]

Although you are probably aware, worth pointing out that Natick Community Organic Farm also makes syrup. They're evidently not on this forum, though. Maybe there's an opportunity for you there for some sort of resource-sharing (?)

[Worcester]

yep had one really strong run so far here! collected 300-400 gallons of syrup so far. Sweetened the evap. drawn off four gallons syrup so far.
Also hoping we don't jump right to summer after this.