Home built RO plumbing

[Clinkis]

Finally got my parts and am assembling my new RO. Using a single XLE4040 and a 190gph procon pump. I have a question about plumbing. Is there any issue with using copper to plumb it? Want to use 1/2 copper and solder(lead free of course) most of the joints. Should this fine?

[wiam]

Should be fine. My old Memtek was copper and my seprotech I picked up this summer is. Both machines will go to 500 psi. I would use the heavier duty that is made for water not for heating.

[TunbridgeDave]

I would stick to stainless or 1000 psi nylon tubing and fittings. Just like you can get green stains in the bath tub or sink, that stuff will make it's way into the membranes. They tell you not to use water from a copper pre-heater to rinse/wash the RO for the same reason.

[Clinkis]

I would stick to stainless or 1000 psi nylon tubing and fittings. Just like you can get green stains in the bath tub or sink, that stuff will make it's way into the membranes. They tell you not to use water from a copper pre-heater to rinse/wash the RO for the same reason.

I ended up using copper and it's working fine but that's good to know because I can easily change it and it didn't cost very much. Where do you find 1000 psi nylon tubing and fittings?

[TunbridgeDave]

My Small Bros machine from the late 80's was made with 1/2 inch od nylon tubing and Parker "Fast Tite" compression fittings. When I expanded my machine I searched high and low and US Plastics was the best place to find them.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=31825&catid=670
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=676&parentcatid=855

The fittings say they are rated for 200 psi but I only ever had one come apart at twice that. I usually run my xle's at around 200-250 psi. IMO a very inexpensive way to plumb an RO.

[Clinkis]

Thanks. I'm using some John Guest fittings and piping along with copper and it's rated for 250 psi. If I'm going to switch would like to find something that will handle higher pressure.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

In VT I hear all copper will be banned from sugaring by 2020.

[wiam]

In VT I hear all copper will be banned from sugaring by 2020.

Where did you hear that? Lead all has to be gone by 2020, but I have heard nothing about copper. So if it is lead free solder it should be ok.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Where did you hear that? Lead all has to be gone by 2020, but I have heard nothing about copper. So if it is lead free solder it should be ok.
my partner went to FW Webbs in Rutland to get some fittings and some one was telling him that there.

I heard lead was no more now, if during inspection your sugar house has any non LF pieces in it ( ball valves etc on like a home made ro) you get banned for one year selling syrup.

all LF valves now have white handles and are stamped or embossed LF

[Clinkis]

There is an awful lot of "I heard" and very little documented info on this topic that I could find. I searched the Internet for hours researching this and there is varying and conflicting info on what is safe, acceptable, and unacceptable. Also seems to vary greatly from state, province, etc. From what I could piece together here in Ontario copper and brass (potable water approved) can be used for sap handling valves, connections and level controls but all pans and evaporators must be stainless. I couldn't find any documented info saying that the use of copper posed any health risk when used in the production of maple syrup. From what I gather it was the types of solder used that are the larger issue for fear of lead.

If anyone has a link to any documentation or study done about this I would like to read it.

[GeneralStark]

Here is some documented info. from another thread on the lead matter. I don't see anything about copper...

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?24431-New-packer-lead-requirements/page5&highlight=lead

[wiam]

Here is some documented info. from another thread on the lead matter. I don't see anything about copper...

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?24431-New-packer-lead-requirements/page5&highlight=lead

The document I posted in that thread does not read well on the forum. If you pm me your email I will send it that way.

[Clinkis]

Thanks guys. I believe I've read this as well as several others regarding lead. I still can't get a clear answer on the use of copper.

[TunbridgeDave]

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. I was just mentioning the copper because it will get into the membranes. At this time I personally don't know of anyone's sugarhouse being inspected. We did a voluntary test of our syrup about 10 years ago by the state of VT. We still have all soldered equipment from the early 90's and the tests of our syrup were all well below acceptable levels.

As far as the pressure, the vessels are rated for 250 psi and the xle's work well at these pressures so I don't worry about going any higher. It just makes the membranes harder to clean.

[wiam]

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. I was just mentioning the copper because it will get into the membranes. At this time I personally don't know of anyone's sugarhouse being inspected. We did a voluntary test of our syrup about 10 years ago by the state of VT. We still have all soldered equipment from the early 90's and the tests of our syrup were all well below acceptable levels.

As far as the pressure, the vessels are rated for 250 psi and the xle's work well at these pressures so I don't worry about going any higher. It just makes the membranes harder to clean.

I don't think you stirred. If there is a ban on copper coming we all want to know. My Memtek I just sold to another producer and my Seprotech that I just finished installing are plumbed with copper. I have only heard of complete lead ban by 2020.

[Clinkis]

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. I was just mentioning the copper because it will get into the membranes. At this time I personally don't know of anyone's sugarhouse being inspected. We did a voluntary test of our syrup about 10 years ago by the state of VT. We still have all soldered equipment from the early 90's and the tests of our syrup were all well below acceptable levels.

As far as the pressure, the vessels are rated for 250 psi and the xle's work well at these pressures so I don't worry about going any higher. It just makes the membranes harder to clean.

I think it's great to have these discussion so that these questions can get answered.

[wiam]

I emailed Mary Croft from VMSMA over the weekend and she must have forwarded to Henry Marckres. I got this in an email from Henry this am.


"The new lead requirements are an industry standard, and not in any laws in Vermont. A packer can decide to purchase your syrup or not, but there is nothing prohibiting your selling it in law.

Copper has not been an issue. Vermont has no plans to change our legal requirements for maple syrup.

Henry J. Marckres
Chief
Consumer Protection
Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food & Markets

[Clinkis]

Well that's good to hear regarding copper. At least that an organization in the know (I hope!) is saying there is no health issues using copper.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

do you mean I just went out spent a boat load of money on a tig welder to start doing my own stainless stuff and copper going to be ok,
well maybe a new side business
FLS Stainless Creations