I got them blue plastic spile blues....

[Galena]

Hey all

Switched over the plastic blue spiles and a much smaller drill bit, so happy I am not leaving big holes like I did with the metal spiles. But has anyone else found it necessary to really drive those blue spiles in to ensure that they are well sunk? I never had any problems with the metal spiles as the fin on the back of them made it clear that you had driven in the spile as much as you needed.

Without such a guide on the blue spiles (though I think there is a rim there which is supposed to lodge into the hole)...well, let's just say I spent double the amount of time as I ever did setting my metal spiles. Because I went around giving a light tug on the buckets and the danged blue spiles just pulled cleanly out!! So I had to do a little more drilling, and a whole lot more hammering, to ensure that they were really in there this time.

Anyone else encountered this issue with the blues?

[Homespun]

Are the blue spiles slightly tapered like my black ones? Was the drill bit the right size for the spile? If the drill bit was correct, maybe the drill wobbled just enough to ream the hole a little bit bigger? I'm just guessing here...

[sweetmoomoo]

trying the blue ones also this year, i also noticed that they dont seem to seat very well. i also got some of the 5/16th metal ones with the shark fin on top and them seem to seat real tight.i will know as soon as the sap starts to flow witch ones i like better.

[newmod]

Hey all

Switched over the plastic blue spiles and a much smaller drill bit, so happy I am not leaving big holes like I did with the metal spiles. But has anyone else found it necessary to really drive those blue spiles in to ensure that they are well sunk? I never had any problems with the metal spiles as the fin on the back of them made it clear that you had driven in the spile as much as you needed.



Without such a guide on the blue spiles (though I think there is a rim there which is supposed to lodge into the hole)...well, let's just say I spent double the amount of time as I ever did setting my metal spiles. Because I went around giving a light tug on the buckets and the danged blue spiles just pulled cleanly out!! So I had to do a little more drilling, and a whole lot more hammering, to ensure that they were really in there this time.

Anyone else encountered this issue with the blues?

I havent had any problems with the blue spiles being loose. I use a 1/2 inch drill bit and set hammer the spiles in until you hear and feel a solid THUD. I may have had only 1 or 2 leak. I use a set of channel locks to twist them and pull at the end of the season. Good luck this year with your sugaring!!

[Run Forest Run!]

Hi Susan:

I have had difficulty in the past with the blue spiles falling out. They also seem to have a tendancy to leak upon installation but 'take up' at some point. I always tie my buckets to the trees regardless of whether I'm using the SS or blue plastic spiles, but find it really necessary with the blue ones. Since I only have a couple of dozen buckets, I figure it's worth the minor effort. Since doing that, none of the spiles fall out.

Good luck this season! (BTW, your PM inbox is full)

[Galena]

Are the blue spiles slightly tapered like my black ones? Was the drill bit the right size for the spile? If the drill bit was correct, maybe the drill wobbled just enough to ream the hole a little bit bigger? I'm just guessing here...

Homepsun...Yes, they are tapered, and yes the drill bit was the right size. In one case the drill did wobble a bit, and it was expecting too much for a blue to stay in, so I put on the big bit and installed a metal one in that hole.

Sweet moomoo (love the username!) I don't want to have to go back to the metal ones with the shark fin, cause they do leave a bigger hole, but I've never had one just slide out on me like the blues do. All the metal's holes have healed nicely over the years, so I just might put in an order with Atkinson for another 2 dozen metals.

Karen...I hope I don't have to TIE my buckets to the trees!! Though it's funny you should mention that, when I was upstairs putting some heat on my sore back this afternoon, the thought occurred to me that mebbe I should invest in some bungee cords for that purpose...*Twilight Zone theme*

ETA: In the past I've NEVER had to tie my buckets up! I just hope I don't come home from work and find a bunch of pails laying on the ground. If so I am going to yank all those blues and replace them with the metals. Life's too short to put up with BS like that.

[markct]

I use the blue ones, well I should say my 13 year old helper does for his yard trees and neighbors trees. They work well but do have a short area of round to seal so have to drill holes carefully and drive them in all the way to the collar. Even with kids running the drill haven't realy had problems with them, once in a while a weep that sugars over soon tho. The reason I like them is for the kids the hinged lids, toilet seat lids they call them, are easier than the roof type lids which can be tricky to get hooked on and are harder to peek in to see how much sap there is.

[Run Forest Run!]

Galena, it doesn't help that I live in an extremely windy location so tying my buckets saves me untold aggravation. BTW, bungees aren't the answer. Basic binder twine is more effective, and much cheaper.

[MapleLady]

I have been using the 5/16 blue spiles for a couple of years now and like them much more than the 7/16 stainless ones as the holes in the trees close up quicker. I haven't had any issues with them loosening up. I am using a 5/16 tapping bit as opposed to a 5/16 drill bit. I think the tapping bit drills a cleaner hole.

[Clinkis]

I switched to the 5/16 blue spiles a couple years ago for most of my buckets. Have had issues with some buckets that get bouncing in the wind and spile gets loose and falls out. If it does it once then it will keep doing it every time it's windy and only option is to drill out to 7/16 and put an old tap in. I do use a tapping bit. But for me this occasional inconvenience is worth it to do less damage to my trees and ease of drilling.

[Big_Eddy]

I'm switching too. I did an experiment last year comparing 5/16" blue and cast aluminium spiles. My results are on here somewhere. Short story - I bought another 50 plastic spiles this spring and I'm now 2/3 blue. I'll switch the rest next spring.

Loosening rate was about the same. Both metal and plastic tend to loosen a bit early in the season and may need snugging up after a very cold spell. Blue spiles do not thaw as fast, so take a bit longer to get started early in the season. Trees heal up much faster. It's hard to find the 5/16" tap holes from 2 years ago whereas easy with the 7/16". Sap yield over the season seems about equal and certainly within the tolerances for sun exposures and tree size.

I had been drilling old school (brace and 5/16" auger bit) until this spring. Bought a 5/16" tapping bit this year. I mark my drill bits at the depth I like by filing a small line across the web. Easy to see while spinning, does not move and doesn't rub off. Nothing worse than having the tap bottom out in too shallow a hole, and have it oversized after you redrill it.

This year I had a new tapper installing taps. We had 1 hole out of 95 where the tap would not stay in. She accused the driller of shaky hands (which he denied) and we ended up drilling it out and installing a 7/16" spile. We had 1 blue spile break off in the hole. It was carefully drilled out with the brace and replaced with another 5/16". And we had 1 blue spile where the tip was broken by an inadvertent strike from the hammer.

The blue spiles do not have anywhere near as much taper as the metal spiles, so the fit will not be as snug. However, as long as the hole is drilled level, the bucket weight is downward and is not pulling the spile out. Also - over a few days, the taps will tighten up as the sap surrounding the tap dries and seals the tap into the tree.

If you need some 7/16" metal spiles, I have ~400 almost new (1 season) Atkinson rolled stainless spiles that I don't need. PM me.

[Galena]

Today I replaced another two blues with sharkfins. Carrying around a hammer, brace and bit and both drill bits and a handful of both sets of spiles, is getting very old, very fast.

I'm still not too keen on the blues though I plan to use the ones I have in, just because they are in...at least they better be, now! In the past I've never had a metal spile just fall out, though after a really hard freeze, I have had to tap them a little to snug them up. And even so that was only one or two spiles.

So I may be pm'ing you, Eddy...and in the meantime, am trying to come up with a 5/16 sharkfin spile.

[Galena]

And...guess what? Today I had to replace yet ANOTHER two blue plastic disaster spiles with trusty ol' sharkfins! So that makes 6 of 24 spiles I've had to replace. That's 25%; that's a high enough percentage for me to say screw this blue plastic spile envirofriendly rubbish, I'm going back to the sharkfins.

But going to see if I can find someone to tinker em down to 5'16.

[Run Forest Run!]

I needed to replace one my my blue spiles today. In went the trusty sharkfin.

[MapleLady]

I take back what I said the other day... :-| It was a windy day here yesterday (3/12) and I found one of my buckets, lid and BLUE SPILE lying on the ground! Also found several others loose in the hole. This is the first time that this has happened to me and I hope there won't be any more! Hate to think of sap running down the trunk of the tree! I will be watching more closely now!

[Galena]

Glad to see I'm not the only one!! I nearly blew a gasket yesterday when I got home from work and saw a pail and blue spile laying on the ground next to #2, one of my superproducers. Ok, so there wouldn't have been much sap in the pail yesterday cause everything was frozen, but still...shudder to think what would have happened with a fuller pail.

I'm going to ask my best tinkerer-type buddy if he can try reworking my sharkfins so they could go 5/16. And I'm going to email Atkinson and make the suggestion to them that they get their spile supplier to offer 5/16 sharkfins.

[sweetmoomoo]

i got some 5/16 metal taps from bascoms and they seem to working real good.
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/sphlats/spout_bucket/

[Galena]

Woohoo! Thanks sweetmoomoo! BTW that is one of the best usernames I've ever seen, anywhere :-)

Hey, isn't Bascom's the family that that Sugar Season book is about?

[Ausable]

Haven't used my 5/16 spiles yet.... - still using the 7/16 blue plastic. I set my spiles with a Dollar Store Rubber Mallet and it seems to work rather well. Also - I weight each pail and lid down with about a 2 foot length of slab wood to keep them from blowing over when empty. Works for me. I have a few trees left to tap - so I'm going to try the 5/16 spiles and drop tubing to buckets. My 5/16 spiles are all black - I would have preferred blue.....

[Biz]

I had a lot issues last year with the 5/16 blue plastic spouts pulling out, possibly since I used a bit and brace which does not drill a precise hole due to some wobble. But even when I used a 19/64" tapping bit and cordless drill I wasn't happy with the fit. Seems like there isn't enough taper or seating surface to grip the tap hole. This year I purchased some Sapmeister 5/16" stainless spouts. They have a version that will accept a hinged cover. Much better fit, although you need to ensure that the bucket doesn't hang so that sap hits the hook and runs on the wrong side of the bucket! They are very cool, should clean up well, and they should last forever. Price is similar to other metal spouts.

Dave

[inthewoods8]

I have been using these taps for three years on about 150 trees and have had really good luck. I have found that I have to hit them in harder than you would think. The rim on the back should be set into the bark. I tend to pinch the top part of the tap with my left hand from underneath and hit it. It will usually go in another 16th of an inch than you might otherwise stop at. I usually only have one or two a year fall out from wind and take a hammer with me the first few times gathering to set any leaky taps

[Galena]

Thanks for the feedback all. Bascom does indeed carry the 5/16ths sharkfins at $1.50 each, but seeing that it says they're from Canada...well I think I'll track down the maker of the spiles first and see if I can buy from them. If that doesn't work, Big_Eddy and I are already in negotiations :-)

[Dan MacLellan]

I went to a shallower 1.5" hole this year with 14 trees with the new blue 5/16" bucket spiles and 13 trees with the 7/16" spiles. The blue ones definitely needed to be driven in all the way to prevent leaks. As far as yield went the smaller holes flowed just as well as the bigger ones.

[Galena]

Ok now that the season's just about done, I can say this one good thing about the blue plastic spiles from hell....they sure pull out easily!!! A light tug and you're done. So I don't need to wrassle em from the tree like the metal ones.

HOWEVER...I had barely any leakage around the holes for the metal ones. Every single freakin' blue spile that stayed in and wasn't replace, leaked massively around the holes, all season long. They never seated up well.

And what happened when I replaced the blue plastic spiles with the ol' trusty metal ones? Well, I soon learned that the metal ones can be driven in til snug - not all the way to the sharkfin by any means - and still have enough integrity to a)hold a bucket, even a very full one and b)not leak at all. I'll get pics when I pull spiles soon (my trees still going but of course very slow now) and you can see what I mean.

But will I ever willingly use the blue plastic spiles again? Never. So if anyone wants 30 free b.p. spiles pm me, pay for shipping/taxes and they're yours.

[COMSTOCK MAPLES]

the blue 5/16 taps need a 19/64th drill bit so the second shoulder on the tap secures them in. I've been using these type for three years without a hitch and same amount of production as 7/16 white taps.

[Michael Greer]

I'm looking at the stainless "Sapmeister" spouts...I say looking 'cause the price of three something apiece makes me ill. Sure, they look well made, and represent an investment in something I'll probably never have to replace, but it's just too much. I hang 250 buckets, and the price of the upgrade would exceed my "profit" for the year. What other alternatives are out there. I'm not interested in plastic.

[Clinkis]

I used 50 of the plastic spiles this year without a hitch. I think the key, as already been mention, is to drill the appropriate size hole (19/64) or they will give you tons of grief. The first year I used these I had a regular 5/16 bit and had a lot blow out when windy bit but once I got the proper 19/64 tapping bit I have had little trouble. And yes, they seemed to produce approximately the same amount of sap.

[Galena]

Well, I never heard anything about using 19/64 drill bits, I used a 5/16. They still suck IMNSHO. They are currently soaking in hot bleach water. So whoever wants em, PM me. I never want to see them in my tapping kit again!

[Big_Eddy]

You pms are full. But I'd be happy to trade blues for new "sharkfins" as you call them. I'll be buying more blue spikes next year anyway.

[Galena]

You pms are full. But I'd be happy to trade blues for new "sharkfins" as you call them. I'll be buying more blue spikes next year anyway.

Hey Eddy, Thanks, will go delete some old PMs. Also send me your email so we don't have this problem in future...stoopid 25 message limit.