Tractor for the Sugar Woods

[Maplesapper]

Would really appreciate some ole timers' advice for the sugarbush.

Is a JD 5065e too big for the bush- realistically ?
I want 4WD, but have no idea about what minimum ample HP might be.

Looking to transport a wagon full of kids, some log skidding, and food plotting for the deer on our 100 acres.
Need to buy new, no handy enough to fix an older unit.

Thanks

[Sugarmaker]

Wow we get to pick out a tractor!
If the ground is soft and or lots of snow in syrup season then 4 wheel drive would be the way to go.
I would say 50 hp would be the minimum for 100 acres. Keep the width fairly narrow if your taking it in the woods.
I think the Kobota machines are pretty nice. I dont own one. There are a lot of choices out there.
Bucket would be very handy when working with wood and or snow.
Regards,
Chris

[Maplesapper]

Thanks Sugarmaker;
4WD, loader, farmi winch, seem to be absolutes.

Ground is rough Canadian shield in Parry Sound.
Having a dozer run the trails to create level pathways.....I gather tractors are not ATV's when it comes to side hills.
Not sure if a cab is smart vs an open station....might be like a window in a wall. Wish you always put it there before vs after.

[GeneralStark]

We had some logging done this fall and the fellow that did it has a 90hp Kubota 4wd with a Farmi winch. It was before the snow fell and I was quite impressed with where he could go and how well it could maneuver in tight places. Our land is very ledgey with some weird side hills and he had no issue. He did have chains on the rear wheels.

[unc23win]

I think 50 horse is a good size for most jobs. I have a 50 horse 4x4 1996 5200 John Deere with a loader we use it all the time for everything plowing, skidding logs, field work, and have moved just about everything with the loader. One thing is for sure make sure it has an Engine Block Heater. The 5000 series John Deeres are nice our newest tractor is a Case IH you might want to look at the Case IH Farmall A series or the C series. Kubotas are nice as well although some in my opinion are not set up very well. I love tractor shopping!

[eagle lake sugar]

I have a 41 hp Kioti and am very pleased with it. I own 375 acres and use it for logging, loading a sawmill, bush hogging, snowblowing, etc. It's 1000 lbs. heavier than a comparibly priced Deere or Kabota and has more lift and 3 pt. hitch capacity. All of the smaller tractors are made overseas including Deere, Massey, Cub cadet, etc. The Bobcat tractor is a Kioti with white paint. If I were going to be doing lawns and work where I'd want a lighter footprint, I'd probably get a Deere or Kabota.

[Brokermike]

I also have a 41hp Kioti, and love it. We have about 70 acres. I have a winch, loaded tires, ice pick chains, a grapple, bucket with tooth bar, forks, a box blade, and a weight box. It'll lift 2,000lbs and drag most hitches within reason. I'd love a bigger tractor but really enjoy having a HST drive. I also have the tires set as wide as they'll go.

I'd look hard at a Mahindra 3550, a Kioti NX series (mine is a DK, but they don't make them anymore), or if you want to pend the $ a Kubota 5740. The Deere's are great but have no dealer support near me, make sure you have good dealer support if you're not too handy

[Maplesapper]

Thanks Brokermike;
Parry Sound seems to be a good stretch from any of the high volume dealers. Support will be a challenge; but a few local folks can be found for service.
Narrowed it down to the JD5065e or Farmall 75c.
Just looking for the coffee cans in the backyard now

[16jharris]

We use a 2010 Polaris Ranger 800 XP

[Dill]

Unless you need a huge deprecation hit for taxes, there is no reason not to go used. Plenty of good cheaper 4wd tractors out there.

[Maplesapper]

If it runs out of diesel I can fix it.....after that, I gotta go new for the piece of mind.
Besides, money is no object in making syrup, or so I have read.

[BreezyHill]

I would go for 65 Hp minimum and 4 wd.

I have three 4 wd tractors. the smallest I use on the winch is a 50 hp JD that is 2wd. Plenty of power but not enough weight. She cant go up the hills in the bush as she is to light in the front even with a bucket so to pull 20' small logs I have to add tractor weights to the front. She is nice and agile in t the woods though.

JD have a straight front axle and some of the compacts have final drives.

Get a cab as the resale value is much higher and it is nice to be able to get out of the weather.

My 70 hp 6950 pulls 5 50' long ash trees with no problem. 14' disks and a 4 bottom plow. She has a full width 8' bucket to plow snow, dirt, and remove stumps. So differential locks front and back are very helpful.

Diesel for sure, block heater, 4 cylinder is snappier acceleration for pulling logs and plowing snow or hauling sap. 6 cylinder is loogie and slow compared to a 4 cylinder. Bigger name tractors better resale value, JD, Kubota,...others drop in value fast, Kioti, yanmar, etc.

Check out fast Line for used prices for resale value.

Good Luck!

Ben

[markct]

I have tractors of all sizes from garder to a 105 hp ford 8000, well I used to, just sold that one a week ago. The machines I use the most in my sugaring are the Kawasaki Mule by far, it hauls a lot of small firewood outa the woods, and a lot of tubing and supplies in, as well as the saws to trim and check lines etc. The next most used machine it my JD 210C loader backhoe, it moves a lot of snow, moves tanks and anything heavy including logs both with forks on the front and grabbing logs or brush with the thumb on the backhoe often. Also road repairs and leveling spots for tanks etc. The other tractor that gets used is my fathers ford NAA tractor, its narrow and agile to get in the woods to drag out the occasional log etc, altho realy don't drag many logs unless I need to as it makes a mess, damages trees and tears up the forest floor. But its a handy tractor, the other one involved in sugaring would be the ford 3400 we have, it gets parked in fall next to the woodshed and hydraulic hoses hooked up to run the log splitter. Not neccesarily recommending any particular ones of those models just giving an idea of what gets done and used in my operation. The Mule is by far what gets the most seat time for maple related stuff.

[tuckermtn]

a couple features to consider on your tractor.

3rd function hydraulic circut on the loader so you can run a power angle plow or grapple on the front quick attach plate on the loader. Kubota 40 series loaders have them with a push button on the loader joystick, which is handy to be able to run the grapple or plow while you are lifting/dumping with the loader.

if you are doing any sort of woods work with the tractor, consider upgrading the ROPS to a four post canopy that can withstand a falling object (FOPS). but if you only have ROPS resist the temptation to use the bucket to push hung-up trees over. know the limits of your tractor...they really are not designed for heavy woods work, but many of use them that way.

[markct]

If it runs out of diesel I can fix it.....after that, I gotta go new for the piece of mind.
Besides, money is no object in making syrup, or so I have read.

Just cause its new doesn't mean it never will need work. And just cause its used doesn't mean it will constantly need work. Equipment isn't as simple as cars, even new stuff needs regular work, usualy minor, but still things to be done. And everything new gets old too eventualy. But if you have the cash to burn go for it. Myself I would rather have 3 good used machines than one new one. Can get a lot more done with that kinda variety, and a breakdown, which will happen new or used, doesn't mean you are totally shut down.

[VT_K9]

I havea Kubota L4240. The size is good for our bush. We have about 77 acres of land. I started with a 28 hp then moved to a 33 hp tractor. I found the 42 hp was the smallest to take a good sized loader. I did not want a large tractor for the overall size. Mine does not have a cab. In the winter I wish I had a cab. In the summer most of the time I am happy without. If I do it again I will have a cab.

We use a Farmi winch on our tractor along with a grapple on the front (great for brush clean up). We have a box blade, angle blade, york rake, and forks. We have two spare hydraulic ports in the rear and another on the loader. We run Tyrgg chains on the rear tires.

I researched going to a larger machine over the last year. I found myself looking at skidsteers for their carrying capacity, but I would loose the towing and pto advantages of a tractor. I would probably consider a 50-60 hp machine the next time around, but that would depend on the overall size. I have had the L4240 since 2008 and it has been a great machine.

Mike

[buckeye gold]

This is all a lot of good information for all of us. Thanks everyone for the imput. I have contemplated another tractor myself. I run a 3000 Ford currently, but would like FWD. The one thing I only saw mentioned once that I would be sure to get id differential locks. If I did not have differential lock on my rear axle I'd be lost.

[BAP]

Going bigger isn't always better. You will find a lot of people will tell you that you need a bigger tractor. Pick out one that you feel comfortable with as far as physical size to get around with in the woods. The JD 5056e would maneuver well in the woods and is big enough to put a logging winch on to haul trees. With a winch, you can make your tractor more productive by pulling the logs to you out of tight areas. Also remember, you don't need a tractor big enough to haul the biggest tree in the woods whole. If they are too big, cut them into smaller lengths. A tractor should be sized to do most of the jobs you want to accomplish with ease. The rest of the jobs can be done by working at them at a slower pace.

[drewlamb]

Don't mean to hijack the theme, but I have a serious tractor related issue. Every year I have a devil of a time breaking through the snow at the beginning of the season to get back to the sugarbush. I have a 40 hp Kubota 4wd (L4400) with ice pick chains on the rear and use a single auger snowblower and a 6 ft plow. But going through 3 feet of snow is just really difficult. Will a larger tractor with bigger wheels go through that much snow?

[sugarsand]

If you have the same meally crap snow that we've got, then nothing goes thru it good, there is no traction in it. We cleaned our roads with a snowblower by peeling it to bare ground. A big PITA.

sugarsand

[unc23win]

Don't mean to hijack the theme, but I have a serious tractor related issue. Every year I have a devil of a time breaking through the snow at the beginning of the season to get back to the sugarbush. I have a 40 hp Kubota 4wd (L4400) with ice pick chains on the rear and use a single auger snowblower and a 6 ft plow. But going through 3 feet of snow is just really difficult. Will a larger tractor with bigger wheels go through that much snow?

Sure a larger tractor will go through busting drifts with a big tractor is fun. What helps a smaller tractor sometimes is to break trail just drive in the snow and break it up some without getting stuck then start plowing or blowing and widen your path. Slow starting with 3' but once you get a path started you just make it wider each pass.

[BreezyHill]

Will a larger tractor with bigger wheels go through that much snow?

This is where size does not matter. The problem you run into with snow is float factor. My father in law was feeding his cows with a 1066 with 4 wd drive and was getting stuck in less snow than I have. As soon as the big tractor sits on top of the snow you are done. He is a little lower in elevation and in the valley. We are on the top and our snow is very fine and flows like soupy mud. We don't have enough traction on this stuff and it flows so you don't float on it. It takes a while for the lugs to paddle thru the snow. We added the chains and it tends to help if you can get a packed track.

I have found that it is a matter of getting traction or the power of the motor to the ground...since you cant get to the ground it is a matter of weight you have to push thru the snow. His 13,000# tractor vs my 8500# tractor is my going the same distance in a quarter of the time. Now hook them to a set of disks on plowed ground and he wins hands down...he can put that power right to the dirt and go...we are talking a 185 hp dyno test machine vs a 70 hp machine. Farrari vs Honda Civic thing ya know. But I have front and rear dif locks and he has neither.

Down here guys are plowing the snow to spread manure. The articulated trench packing machines that run duals all around and carry 6-8 waiste blocks for weight. They are plowing with the same blade and running singles to get to the ground and not float. One did have the weights on the back for traction and he was going right along with no problems. While another farm is using the duals on. One tractor packs a track and another pulls the 4000 gallon spreader. 270 hp New Hollands.

BAP is right that bigger is not always better...but smaller is usually less safe for working in woods and with winches and buckets. Winches, a hung trees and even trees in the ground can do odd things that will pull the tractor off balance. I have had the front of the M 6950 off the ground several times pulling out logs. Sure the 1050 JD ( Fawn) is handy in the bush to snake around tight spots but that is where she gets in trouble too. She can only do 1/4 the job of the 6950. I think of it as insurance...pay a little more for fuel, pull a larger load, get done faster and don't need to worry about the boys on their trip out of the woods...worth every penny. For s little job use the little tractor...for the big job use the bigger tractor.
You wouldn't put a 50 gallon tank and fill it up on an atv so don't try to pull full trees with a Fawn, at least get s spike horn or a three pointer. LOL

[Amber Gold]

Limited experience here since I've only owned a big (to me) tractor for one year and been logging with it. Ford 4610 2WD with a JL501 Farmi winch and a loader. 60HP tractor that could pull anything the winch could. A set of ice chains made the difference from struggling through the woods getting over rocks and stumps, to not touching the diff. lock once I put them on. More weight in the front would've been nice a few times, but I wonder if it'd make the front end sink more when the ground's not quite froze solid. I was able to go through the woods until about 3-3.5' of snow before I started getting stuck too often and it wasn't worth it. 4WD would've been nice, but I saved a bunch of money by getting a 2WD. I wouldn't go smaller than 60hp.

I don't know if this is true, but my understanding is that older tractors are built more rugged and weigh more...all good things in the woods. Also, why buy near new tractor and get it all scratched up working in the woods.

If you own 100 acres and plan on working a lot in the woods, skidders are meant for the job and would do a better job of it. Bigger tires so less ground disturbance, better winching system, and articulating so more maneuverable. There's a bunch of used skidders that can be had for a reasonable price.

[Big_Eddy]

My tractor is at the lower end of the size spectrum. I have a JD855 4WD compact tractor. ~25 PTO HP and ~4000lbs with loader on. It does everything I need it to do for my woods and sugaring. I can pull a 16' flatbed with a big square hay bale and 20 passengers up a steep hill. I can haul 100 gallons of sap down the same hill. I can run a 5' snowblower and a 5' bushhog to clear the paths. I can haul my sugar wood and home firewood (cut to blocks) out of the woods in a trailer. If I can walk through with my arms outstretched, the tractor will get through too. It has met my needs for ~20 years and I wouldn't want to go bigger. Mine is open station. The only time I wish for a cab is while blowing snow.

However - your needs may be different. It would not haul logs with any success. It could probably run a small logging winch, but with difficulty. It would not plow up food plots.

It's a trade-off between HP and traction, versus maneuverability and size. I like my compact tractor, I suits my needs well. I will say that compact tractors can be just as expensive or more expensive than their larger cousins, especially when looking at used.

[buckeye gold]

[QUOTE]Going bigger isn't always better. You will find a lot of people will tell you that you need a bigger tractor. Pick out one that you feel comfortable with as far as physical size to get around with in the woods. The JD 5056e would maneuver well in the woods and is big enough to put a logging winch on to haul trees. With a winch, you can make your tractor more productive by pulling the logs to you out of tight areas. Also remember, you don't need a tractor big enough to haul the biggest tree in the woods whole. If they are too big, cut them into smaller lengths. A tractor should be sized to do most of the jobs you want to accomplish with ease. The rest of the jobs can be done by working at them at a slower pace. [/QUOToomE]

This is good advice. For dragging logs I have a boom that hitches on my 3pt. Getting the butt of logs off the ground doubles your pulling capacity, however, you'll need some front weghts. I have pulled some pretty big stuff out with my Ford 3000 using the boom

[drewlamb]

Thanks folks. Good advice. The 45 horse Kubota has really no trouble dragging logs out with the winch and some ballast on the front loader - I cut a log into a few tractor width sections and put them on the front forks - and it can haul a 225 gallon tank on the front and a 400 gallon sap trailer full to the brim. But where I live, 3-4 feet of snow at the beginning of sugar season is the norm and the tractor just bottoms out and the tires spin. I've looked at an M-series Kubota with those big front tires. Ultimately I think that's where I'm headed.

Again, thanks for your input!

[Maplesapper]

I would go for 65 Hp minimum and 4 wd.

I have three 4 wd tractors. the smallest I use on the winch is a 50 hp JD that is 2wd. Plenty of power but not enough weight. She cant go up the hills in the bush as she is to light in the front even with a bucket so to pull 20' small logs I have to add tractor weights to the front. She is nice and agile in t the woods though.

JD have a straight front axle and some of the compacts have final drives.

Get a cab as the resale value is much higher and it is nice to be able to get out of the weather.

My 70 hp 6950 pulls 5 50' long ash trees with no problem. 14' disks and a 4 bottom plow. She has a full width 8' bucket to plow snow, dirt, and remove stumps. So differential locks front and back are very helpful.

Diesel for sure, block heater, 4 cylinder is snappier acceleration for pulling logs and plowing snow or hauling sap. 6 cylinder is loogie and slow compared to a 4 cylinder. Bigger name tractors better resale value, JD, Kubota,...others drop in value fast, Kioti, yanmar, etc.

Check out fast Line for used prices for resale value.

Good Luck!

Ben


Hey Breezy-
What are your thoughts on a Case IH Farmall 75c ?

[Shaun]

If you change implements often a model with telescopic 3pt hitch arms are well worth it. Makes hooking up a 7 foot bush hog much much easier. Mahindra makes a very heavy tractor, at least 6 years ago they did. My 65 hp was 33% cheaper than JD and 2000 pounds heavier. Resale not as good, I do not plan on selling. Has been real good for the 75 hours a year that I use it.

[PACMAN]

I have a Kobota L3200 with a loader and I cut around 70 face cord a year,and haul 2 60 gal barrels of sap on the back with a carry all. I also have a 5 ft. tiller I use for food plots and It also has a quick detach bucket with pallet forks that I use just as much as the bucket. Tha size seems good for my 217 acers.

[Geroldn]

I second the Kubota L3200. I have a small Norse winch and grapple, also quick attach bucket, dump trailer and 3pt hitch wood chipper. I would not get into the firewood business or logging, but this set up works well for small scale sugaring and personal firewood harvesting. It also plows the driveway. I make a lot of chips for mulching my wife's orchards and to fill in muddy spots on trails. The winch is essential for bringing down hung trees safely, especially since i'm usually working alone and thinning trees in dense stands. The tractor is just power and gets you there, the implements are what actually do the work.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a Kubota L3400 and love it. I haul 140 gallons on carryall on rear and 70 in bucket on front and both are leg tanks.

[Dill]

Honestly those new farmalls are light. And basically the same as the NHs, which are Fiats made in Italy. When Josh/AmberGold wanted a woods work tractor. I pointed him towards older iron. That 4610 is made of steel with steel parts. Old real farm tractors are made to last. You can find a Farmall C from the 50s and its still going to do the work it was designed to do.
I have Masseys a 4wd 271xe and an old row crop 265 and a Deere 5500. The 271 is pretty new but its built like an old one, or like a tank. I have a winch on it and I thought it was pretty good in the woods. Right up until we hired a logging crew. They blasted through what Josh and I cleared in a week in less than half a day. 1 guy in a feller buncher and 1 in a grapple skidder.
So for pulling firewood, get a 50-70hp real tractor preferably 4wd. The new stuff that is rated for 80-100hp will only do the work of an old tractor rated at 65-75. Also I'm not a fan of hydrostatic. It robs a lot of power. They are handy, but I'd rather have real gears. Also cabs just don't last in the woods.
Its all about having the right size equipment for how quick you want the job to get done. Just like a backhoe will dig stumps. But to stump a field really an excavator is the way to go.

[Maplesapper]

Thanks Dill;
Workload would be 30% tugging logs, 50% food plots, brush, tilling, and 20% sap runs and snow removal.
We have 4 foot of snow in the bush in Central Ontario, so driving through the snow is quite important.
Skidder is single purpose so that's out, older tractors are a concern ( I'm a carpenter not a mechanic ).
Property is located 3 miles away from the house.

Hiring a dozer to cut the main trails in the 100 acres, and clear the food plot areas.
Hinge cutting perimeters to removing firewood as we build bedding areas for the deer.


I will spread fill, lime etc, and fine tune the areas afterwards.

[BreezyHill]

Hey Breezy-
What are your thoughts on a Case IH Farmall 75c ?

I just skimmed over the specs and if you can swing the 75C do that one: Neither requires DEF,( Diesel Exhaust Fluid...Nitrogen supplement to get it to pass EPA standards.

I also prefer not going hydrostatic.

They both have the right style of front axle but didn't see anything about a differential lock... I prefer mechanical over electrical due to the foot buttons seem to go bad with any mud or wet on the floor...dumb a$$ place for an electrical switch on a farm tractor.

Nice cab with plenty of visability. That is a big thing for me I like to see what is around me and some cabs suck in that respect.

When I first looked it compared the 75 and 95 but 95 is to big, even thou it is shorter???

Hope there is a cover for the top glass. That will get hot fast if not.

I would take a look at how a snow groomer has brush bars around the cab if you are going in the woods a lot. They save on mirrors and lights for the little they cost to have made.

I had a Kubota L 3450 that one lasted less than a year on the farm. It was a gutless wonder...its get up and go got up and went. I think we got a M5500 then went with the M6950 after a trial run for a couple weeks.

There is a big difference from old iron to new iron...I like the old but I have to step up my Hp to over 100 as we will likely be getting back into raising corn and beans for the mill again. I like the mechanical over electronic systems. Take a ford TW15 VS the TW25...there were around 100 of the 15 that have the 25 motor for an extra 50 or so hp when the factory ran out of the 15 motors for a bit. Quarks like this can be a big difference in some of the old iron too. I know of one of these tractors and always thought it was odd how it pulled a bigger set of disks than any other 15 I had seen.

Get to know your salesman and ask for a demo unit. to see what she can do on your property. Most go a week without any problems. If you need a winch get it at the same time and save some $$$. We did that with a tractor and bought the backhoe and loader attachments and saved a few K.

It is a big investment but get what you need. Regret is a hard pill to swallow when you are paying tis kind of $$$.

Good Luck!

Ben

[Maplesapper]

Seems a crazy amount of money to spend for our first tractor, but it will be our last and only.
Yes, we save tax if we buy the implements at the same time.

I know a compact is too small, but was kind of stunned with the size difference when the 75c showed up.

The real kicker...the nearest dealer is 90 minutes away ?!!
We are in rock country, not farm country.
Still trying to negotiate service calls into the deal or I may be SOL.

[BreezyHill]

Crazy...no. Smart money if you will be able to get by with one or even two.

I go used as I am good with a wrench and the oldest son is in an ag school getting a degree in Ag Mechanics...father in law is a mechanic by trade and I have the tools and experience.

Service calls is not a big deal. You can see what is needed in the owners manual and at what time. Personnally I think it would be good for you to know and do these things. This way you can check them in the spring and fall and know when there is an issue brewing. I am lucky I have all my colors of dealers within about 30 minute drive.

I would not can the 75 a compact tractor. With the right weighting and a little experience you will be amazed at what you can do.

And buy high quality chains if you are going to be pulling stumps. Hate to see a cheap chain go thru a new piece of glass. Buddy did that. Brand new JD 55 hp and a cheap TSC chain...hooked onto a truck and it came right thru the back window. Every link was stretched. It cost time to clean out the glass, the new window, and worst yet was the new chain was only twice the cheap one.

Good Luck!

[blucoondawg]

I have a kioti dk50se hydro no cab, I have a woods subframe mount backhoe and a woods box blade for it. I found kioti to be good value and quality for the money. The 50 horse does good for a woods tractor I honestly can't see any reason to go bigger than that unless you are actually farming and plowing ground. Kioti, bobcat, landini, and I want to say McCormick are all identical. The new Holland and case compact tractor are actually LS tractors made in south Korea same as kioti, they seemed like a decent tractor as well they were one I considered. If you could find a new dk kioti on a lot somewhere it would be a good buy since it is the older model and not the new tier 4 engine, I would stay away from that if possible.

[Maplesapper]

Well just when I was getting close to pulling the trigger......
Looking at new; A fully loaded compact tractor JD 4720, costs 12k more than a JD 5075e ??
In Ontario, Canada, we have to pay 13% tax ( hst ) on tractors under 60 hp.
Again, I will buy new, since I cannot fix these things myself, and am 90 minutes away from the closest dealer, but..

I cannot believe that the answer is writing a cheque north of 60,000.00 dollars....ouch.

[unc23win]

What was the price of the Case IH 75C? Not $60,000 for sure. http://caseih.com/en_us/Pages/Build-and-Price.aspx In the US actual prices run about 15% less than you build on web site I have bought 2 tractors and 3 pieces of equipment in 5 years always for about 15% less than listed on site. If John Deere I would go with 5000 series sometimes the more compact models are more $. Mess around with the build and price tool and get ideas.

[Dill]

I don't get the buy new cause I can't fix it. Older tractors are so basically easy to fix either you can google the fix or find plenty of independent guys who can. Newer stuff is turning into the same as cars, more and more dealer only fixes. If you aren't farming a 60k check is nuts. Heck I am farming and I wouldn't/couldn't write that kind of check.

[Maplesapper]

What was the price of the Case IH 75C? Not $60,000 for sure. http://caseih.com/en_us/Pages/Build-and-Price.aspx In the US actual prices run about 15% less than you build on web site I have bought 2 tractors and 3 pieces of equipment in 5 years always for about 15% less than listed on site. If John Deere I would go with 5000 series sometimes the more compact models are more $. Mess around with the build and price tool and get ideas.

Total List Price $74,850.00; 65k for the tractor, 8k more for the self leveling loader.....crazy pricing in Canada.
Our dollar is really impacting prices.

[Maplesapper]

Hey Dill;
I have a 66 conv Mustang, and a 14' 911 cs4; so I appreciate that older is easier to fix.
BUt I think I know more about submarines than these tractors....lol

[Cedar Eater]

I have an old New Holland 1520 and they aren't made anymore, but New Holland has something equivalent. It can easily do 99% of what I want it to do. The other 1% is a little more difficult. This is a small tractor, but there are many advantages to using a smaller and lighter tractor when you aren't using it for a lot of serious farm work. They can go places a larger tractor can't, which is especially convenient when you want to make narrow trails through the woods. I plant food plots, haul logs, mow, plow dirt, move snow, rototill, disk, pull trailers, etc. It's a matter of knowing the limitations of the tractor. I've been stuck with it many times and the only time I couldn't get it unstuck without help, it was tipping sideways in a swamp. I've never used a winch on it, but I often wished I had one. The front end loader is the reason it is easy to unstick.

It is:
Around 20 hp diesel
4WD
Hydrastatic transmission
5' wide with the wheel turned inward (the wheels can be moved to the opposite side and turned outward to widen the stance for better sidehill stability.

It has:
A 5' wide 1/2 yd bucket that can lift a full bucket of wet sand and almost a full bucket of wet gravel (it helps to have weight on the back)
A Class I 3-point hitch
ROPS

It can:
Pull a single-bottom 14" mouldboard plow through clay soil
Run a 4' wide roto-tiller
Pull a 6' wide disk with added weight
Dump the bucket into a 5 yd dump truck
Drag a 30" X 10' red oak log with the front end of the log lifted
Lift one end at a time of that log onto a lowboy trailer

I've used chains and the bucket, which has a hook welded in the center of it, to drag a lot of trees out of a cedar swamp. That's a substitute for the winch. I've used chains, the bucket, and a convenient trash tree to hydraulically lift the back wheels so I could shove logs under them to get it unstuck from deep muck.

In many cases, you will work harder with a small tractor, compensating for what it can't do. For examples, it will take many more trips to move a pile of dirt from one place to another, and it will take 3 passes to mow a two track road wide enough for an 8' wide trailer. But if being highly efficient isn't required, the small tractor can be just plain handier in a lot of cases. It just takes patience and time to get past its limitations. It helps that they cost way less.

[Maplesapper]

great info thanks

[groomer_guy]

I agree that bigger is not always better. The 5075e or 5056e are both good tractors and could handle just about anything you would like to do with it. I do suggest ice chains on the rear tires if you are going to do any logging with it. I have a smaller tractor on the spectrum but it does what I ask it to do. I have a JD 1050 4X4 with a loader. I use a Farmi 351p for pulling firewood and saw logs out of my property. I use ice chains on the rear tires in the winter because I also plow with this tractor. I just use my head while pulling logs out of the woods. If the log is too big then I cut the log to an appropriate size so I don't roll the tractor on its side. Sounds like you have a good start. Good luck and I hope you find a tractor you like.

[Diesel Pro]

I have a Deere 3720 that I use for my woods work, but once tapping season comes it gets parked. Things get far too mushy when the frost comes out and the frost has to come out for the sap to flow so out comes the Ranger.


1132911330




As point of reference there is a 3pt splitter on the back and the firewood rack is a bit over 1/2 face cord. I also have a Farmi skidding winch.

[Maplesapper]

I think I started looking for a tractor that would do 100% of what I need and want.
Might need to down scale and buy what I need and compromise on what I want.
Seems the budget will be more aligned this way as well.
Surely, for 35k I can find a robust tractor that works and is reliable,

[blucoondawg]

I don't know how familiar you are with tractors but one thing to keep in mind concerning tractor is their capability is governed more by weight than horsepower. Horsepower is needed at the PTO to operate implements according to size but as far as pulling goes weight and traction are what is required. The old tractors had far less HP yet could pull as large a plow as some of the higher HP new tractors, that was because they had a lot of weight to them, nowadays tractors are less weight and higher horsepower which is not always a good thing. Another consideration is tires, I recommend changing out the r4 tread pattern most small tractor come with for a r1 ag type tire as they get better traction on soft ground, if you will be running on pavement more then stay with the r4 style. I am also a member at tractorbynet it's a forum with a lot of very knowledgeable guys and it is set to by brand, good place for info. That's where I did a lot of reading before I bought.

As far as the pricing you have, you must decide what features are worth having, to me a self leveling loader feature isn't necessary, it is very easy to level your loader one you get used to it, if it were me I'd save money on those things and put it toward implements I will want, things I do recommend are a engine block heater and at least 2 sets of hydraulic rear remotes. Another thing to keep in mind with tractor size, the larger the tractor the larger and more expensive the implements will be.

[motowbrowne]

You need to check in at tractorbynet.com I learned a ton from the members there before I bought my Kubota mx4700. Some things that come to mind in no particular order.

I think that Case/Farmall is made by somebody else. Maybe Korean, maybe Italian. I could be wrong, but check it before you but. For example, New Holland sells lots of rebranded LS-made tractors. I've seen some instances where the same machine from LS was 30% cheaper than one with different stickers on it.

A self-leveling loader sounds unnecessary for your purposes. Sure it'd be nice, and for loading round bales all day it'd be really slick, but that's not what you're doing. Should be much cheaper for a regular loader.

If you get a tax break for going to 60hp, that's where I'd be looking. Yes, many 35-50 HP machines will do the same tasks, only requiring a little extra time, but hey, why pay 15% if you don't have to?

I'd definitely recommend looking at the Korean tractors. There's lots of Kioti, LS, TYM, Bobcat, Mahindra(India) owners who are really really happy with their machines that cost thousands less than a Deere or Kubota. The Deere's you're talking about are made in India anyway.

In the US, 2014 was the start of a new "tier" of emissions standards. The new units over 25hp have to meet new emissions standards, which most manufacturers did by switching to a high pressure, direct injection, common rail diesel with a Diesel Particulate Filter. This new engine is more expensive and more expensive to fix, and is computer controlled. Not sure if Canada is doing anything similar, but it may be the case that some US models with new emissions controls are being sold there and maybe also, older or different models without the new stuff. You should decide for yourself, but personally, I'd shoot for an indirect injection, mechanically controlled machine.

All else aside you need to go drive some tractors. Go put your but in the seat of models from 40-85 HP. Yes tractors are expensive, but buying the right one the first time will save you lots on the long run. Happy hunting, and keep us posted.

[Cedar Eater]

Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that you can fill the rear tires with glycol. You can specify that with the dealer. It will greatly increase the weight and give you much more traction.

[Maplesapper]

JD was recommending a calcium based powder for weight in the tires.
Would a liquid be better than a powder ?

[Diesel Pro]

Rim guard for tire fluid. Non corrosive and environmentally friendly. Said to be made from beet juice.

I had my rears filled when I bought the tractor in 2006? and no issues since. Fill to 3/4 (top of rim) so that you can set pressure without spewing juice.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have winshield washer fluid 80% full in my rear tires.

[Shaun]

I did years worth of work with a Kubota l2900. If your land is flat a smaller, lighter tractor can do more. After a few scary rides with a 5X8 trailer load of wood I eventually upgraded to a heavier machine. My land is all very steep, great for sugaring, tough navigating.

[blucoondawg]

Rim guard (beet juice) is definitely the way to go nowadays. Whatever you still stay away from the old style liquid, sodium chloride or whatever it's called, some places still offer it, don't use it even if it's cheaper, it's some nasty stuff and will result in rusted through rims, I had it in my old Allis Chalmers

[Shaun]

I bought a new rim for the Kubota, 6 years old filled with calcium. Very heavy, very corrosive. I agree to stay away.

[Dill]

Its calicum chloride and water. Very heavy which is a good thing. Weight is traction when you are pulling something. I've had some rims that have last 40 years and some that didn't. Rim guard is good, not as common in this area. Most everyone is running calicum. You'll want to load the tires, not only for traction but stability. We have hills here, I want as much weight as low as I can get it.
Something else I was thinking about today. You don't have to go that old. About 5 years ago the compact and small tractor market got flooded. The resale value just plummeted on them.

[Maplesapper]

I did years worth of work with a Kubota l2900. If your land is flat a smaller, lighter tractor can do more. After a few scary rides with a 5X8 trailer load of wood I eventually upgraded to a heavier machine. My land is all very steep, great for sugaring, tough navigating.

Primary use for this tractor is sugaring and deer plots.
The land is extremely hilly and unpassable in a lot of areas- even tricky on the ATV.
I am having a dozer in to groom a perimeter trail on the property borders so I can safely access the property.
Food plot areas will no doubt be in level situations, and I am having the dozer push the big stuff out ahead of any farming in that area

[Cedar Eater]

With a smaller tractor in hilly terrain, the big risks are driving downhill while towing something and tipping sideways on sidehills. You can widen the stance some for sidehills, but your own body weight counts for a lot more on a small tractor and can tip the balance. It really helps to have weight in the bucket held low and weight on the back end (eg. a bushhog) to keep your CG low. I have had to carry rocks in the bucket and lean uphill many times to feel safe while mowing on sidehills. If you start to slip or tip while going downhill and leaning sideways, you have to turn the front downhill. That can be a problem in the woods. As for towing stuff downhill, a large log towed way back can build up speed and slam into you on a downhill. If it pushes the back end sideways, you can roll the tractor. One of the tricks I've learned is to push those logs downhill, ahead of me, then go around them at the bottom and reconnect. I've also towed logs with the bushhog on the ground when necessary.

[BreezyHill]

Rim guard (beet juice) is definitely the way to go nowadays. Whatever you still stay away from the old style liquid, sodium chloride or whatever it's called, some places still offer it, don't use it even if it's cheaper, it's some nasty stuff and will result in rusted through rims, I had it in my old Allis Chalmers

Rim Guard is molasses based...not environmentally friendly...get it in water with fish and it will coak them out in seconds. It wraps around the oxygen in the water.

Calcium chloride is preferred by all the tire guys I know in our area. Simple to mix and is way cheaper now that India is the worlds largest exporter of molasses rather than the largest exporter. They make ethanol out of the molasses. Our mills molasses cost went from $20 per ton to now over $245 in just over 20 years. from 180 in the last 4 years.

Either is fine until you have a flat and you need to repair it. Molasses hits warm moist air and it will have a bacterial reaction and foam like crazy. Big mess!

Most tire guys only replace with cal chloride as they have the bags on the truck and you have water.

If a valve is leaking spin the rim to get the valve on top and change it.

Never had a problem going down hill pulling logs only up and with the small tractor,

Not even going to get into the center of balance and how a persons 200 or so pounds is not going to change the center of gravity much on a 3000# tractor. on a pedal tractor it will but even our old Kubota 245 DT with 4' bucket it didn't make a bit of difference unless you were hanging from the ROPS bar. That was a joke. lol

Safety First...we all have had hairy experiences...those alive will share the stories and we should learn from those that didn't also.

[Cedar Eater]

Rim Guard is molasses based...not environmentally friendly...get it in water with fish and it will coak them out in seconds. It wraps around the oxygen in the water.

Calcium chloride is preferred by all the tire guys I know in our area. Simple to mix and is way cheaper now that India is the worlds largest exporter of molasses rather than the largest exporter. They make ethanol out of the molasses. Our mills molasses cost went from $20 per ton to now over $245 in just over 20 years. from 180 in the last 4 years.

Either is fine until you have a flat and you need to repair it. Molasses hits warm moist air and it will have a bacterial reaction and foam like crazy. Big mess!

Most tire guys only replace with cal chloride as they have the bags on the truck and you have water.

If a valve is leaking spin the rim to get the valve on top and change it.

Never had a problem going down hill pulling logs only up and with the small tractor,

Not even going to get into the center of balance and how a persons 200 or so pounds is not going to change the center of gravity much on a 3000# tractor. on a pedal tractor it will but even our old Kubota 245 DT with 4' bucket it didn't make a bit of difference unless you were hanging from the ROPS bar. That was a joke. lol

Safety First...we all have had hairy experiences...those alive will share the stories and we should learn from those that didn't also.

My tractor only weighs about 2000# and only has a 5' stance. I could widen the stance to 7' by reversing the rears, but I like small trails through the woods. Unless I add weight to the bucket and hold it and the mower low, I can get into trouble quite easily on sidehills and my 200+ lbs. above the CG can make a big difference. I have gotten off and walked along on the high side of the tractor, steering and pushing the foot pedal with my hand to get the tractor out of a hole that the downslope rear dropped into. I've towed some very big oak logs with it and I've been pushed sideways going downhill on slick wet leaves. I didn't roll, but I won't do it again without the bushhog on the back. I'm offering these "hairy experiences" with small tractors so the OP can decide whether the risks are acceptable.

And glycol is basically antifreeze. It is neither molasses nor calcium chloride. It mixes well with water and it doesn't eat rubber. It comes from beet sugar refining and biodiesel processing, and not everybody can get it in bulk for as cheaply as Michiganders.

[Geroldn]

Another reason for a light tractor. I visited the sugar woods of a local county forester and he pointed out that maples have shallow root systems, that can be damaged by ground compression from heavy equipment. He wouldn't even remove cull trees for firewood from near his crop trees. He would drop the culls and let them decompose there (he was also trying to build up forest soil). According to him root damage is cumulative and doesn't show up immediately, but will show up in reduced tree health and slower growth years down the road.

[blucoondawg]

Rim Guard is molasses based...not environmentally friendly...get it in water with fish and it will coak them out in seconds. It wraps around the oxygen in the water.

Calcium chloride is preferred by all the tire guys I know in our area. Simple to mix and is way cheaper now that India is the worlds largest exporter of molasses rather than the largest exporter. They make ethanol out of the molasses. Our mills molasses cost went from $20 per ton to now over $245 in just over 20 years. from 180 in the last 4 years.

Either is fine until you have a flat and you need to repair it. Molasses hits warm moist air and it will have a bacterial reaction and foam like crazy. Big mess!

Most tire guys only replace with cal chloride as they have the bags on the truck and you have water.

Everyone around here pushes rim guard and it isn't very expensive, we can load the rears on my tractor for just over 200 bucks. To each their own but I won't be putting the corrosive stuff in any more of my equipment. Most anything will kill fish if enough is dumped in the water with them, but overall rim guard is more environmentally friendly than calcium chloride.

[BreezyHill]

Everyone around here pushes rim guard and it isn't very expensive, we can load the rears on my tractor for just over 200 bucks. To each their own but I won't be putting the corrosive stuff in any more of my equipment. Most anything will kill fish if enough is dumped in the water with them, but overall rim guard is more environmentally friendly than calcium chloride.

I hear what you are saying but I don't think you realize qhat you are dealing with. Molasses is a sugar and sugar molds and makes acid, plus the acid that is used to limit the acid production is Phosphoric Acid. Nasty stuff...that is why molasses is only stored in poly or stainless tanks. I can only get 2 years out of cast iron pumps and our molasses for our mill is fat fortified to provide calories and to protect the equipment from the acids.

I have a total of 5 tractors all with loaded tires. I live on a dirt road that gets chloride every year. I totally understand what this stuff does and have even used it in our indoor horse arena and on the driveway in drought years. I have a 35 gallon tank on an atv and a 2000 gallon pump truck from molasses delivery business. It is far easier for me to take the atv to the field and wash a rim off of chloride when there is a flat than to wash off molasses.

Well I had a brain storm. With Maple at low prices for commercial $0.90/# why are we not using maple in our tires. We can add so RO acid to kill bacteria and be good to go...Just send me a penny for every pound used for this great idea and I can retire.

[Maplesapper]

Great feed back CE;

I have decided to go bigger than smaller.
And then just fell dead in my tracks after watching a few auctions and then attending the Ritchie Bros auction.
Pricing; big or small tractors in Ontario , Canada is crazy at the moment.
Spring must the high season to buy- so I keep watching the local paper; and am getting the word out with some mechanics that I am looking for a good unit.

[BAP]

Breezyhill, you should try reading the MDS sheet for Rimguard before spouting off how "environmentally Bad" it is. It is not molasses, but Beet juice and is not acidic, but has a PH of 10. Just because the town uses it for dust control doesn't make calcium chloride safe to use. What do you think kills all the roadside trees? It is the calcium chloride and road salt.

[BreezyHill]

Another reason for a light tractor. I visited the sugar woods of a local county forester and he pointed out that maples have shallow root systems, that can be damaged by ground compression from heavy equipment. He wouldn't even remove cull trees for firewood from near his crop trees. He would drop the culls and let them decompose there (he was also trying to build up forest soil). According to him root damage is cumulative and doesn't show up immediately, but will show up in reduced tree health and slower growth years down the road.


So who has the less compaction rate the 165# girl in size 7 shoes or the big farmer of 200# in his size 12 double EE work boots.

Small does not mean less compaction.

My JD 1050 3200# tractor cuts in far worse than my 80 horse 7500 Kubota. over 600% more foot print on the big machine than on the small machine and only 2.5 times the weight.

Harvest when the ground is frozen and compaction is not an issue. Also frost action in soil removes compaction layers very affectively as long is there is enough soil moisture and the frost gets deep enough. We had over 8' of frost measured this year.

You do realize you can get tracks for tracotrs...check out the track kits that tractor groomers are using. You can burry an egg 1" below the ground surface and not damage it with a14000# tracked tractor driving over top of it with a track.

Great in mud and the snow we are getting right now.

[mellondome]

So who has the less compaction rate the 165# girl in size 7 shoes or the big farmer of 200# in his size 12 double EE work boots.


Depends on how cute she is..

[Maplesapper]

Anyone know of an upcoming Tractor Farm Show in Ontario to go view many manufacturers at once?
Or is that a fall thing....