60 taps how many stars?

[wildlifewarrior]

Hi everyone, we are trying to finish the last of our tubing. The ladder we are installing is about a 5 foot lift with a DC guzzler. There are 60 or so taps prior to the ladder and about 30 after. How many stars should I need, I believe they are 6 star fittings. I know the official rule is that all 60 could run through one star fitting. What would happen if I had two or three? Not enough sap to make the loss of vacuums worth it?

Thanks
Mike

[eagle lake sugar]

In my area, the runs just aren't that big. I have maybe 2 days all season that you might approach a gallon per tap on vacuum. I use the old rule of thumb for one star per 60 taps. I've talked with a couple producers from Ct. though, and it sounds like the trees run like crazy down there. If it were me, I'd put two or three stars for 60 taps in your neck of the woods.

[BreezyHill]

I know the official rule is that all 60 could run through one star fitting. What would happen if I had two or three? Not enough sap to make the loss of vacuums worth it?

Thanks
Mike

Not sure I am on the same page of prior and after ladder.
For 60 taps up a 5 ft lift I would go with a 6 way on a guzzler:
you could get all of the sap up three of the six but as long as the star is balanced well you will get good lift up all risers and have nearly the same volume area as a 3/4" main.

Ladders are all about speed of the rise. If it is going up slowly then you have to many risers. To fix this problem simply unplug one and cap the star fitting and plug the riser.

Slow rise will turn into pooling in the main and loss of vac past the pool. Guzzlers are more sensitive to air injection than a vac pump so if you need to inject then do a tiny amount on a 1/8" brass needle valve.

On my ladders of 14'-18' I am injecting about 0.15-0.2 cfm on a total of 7 or 8 injectors and run 28+" of vac on recycled dairy pumps that I have modified for extra performance.

I have on ladder about your size and it is on a 1" main. there are around 40 taps on a 3 way star. It works well but it has an injector. When I have changed it to 2 risers it works well except for during a good peak flow. Then it does not have enough risers and pools. This is likely due to it is on the wet line of ladder #2 that is already near capacity and I need to install a manifold or put one of the risers to the Dry Line. I will have to play with it this season to find the best fix. One to the dry line will happen first as there is no time to mess with another manifold.

You should have no issues with a 5' lift as this is far less than what a guzzler can do. I suggest playing with it a little to see what you can make work for your system.

Not every system is the same: some have more or less leaks, different turbulence levels at or near the ladder changes everything, how much capacity the system has prior to the ladder and after the ladder changes the way the ladder works.

Just remember the ladder will work it is just up to you to find the adjustments to make it work the best and most efficient on your system.

I can get 28+" after three ladders and 600' from my pump. So didn't get worried about losing vac inches. Loss of vac is only a result of failed design. I had that issue last season after ladder 5 of a 7 ladder series. This was a result of a slow rising ladder and pooling in the feeder main. each time a surge of sap from a pool hit the ladder the risers would slow and vac would drop. This season the line gets stretched a little tighter and get a few supports added where the pool occurs. Not easy because it is 20' in the air due to the way the land rolls.

Feel free to pm me if you have issues or need specific pointers.

ben

[BreezyHill]

In my area, the runs just aren't that big. I have maybe 2 days all season that you might approach a gallon per tap on vacuum.

I remember those days too...but after we went to high vac those days are fewer than good days if the wind is not blowing. I can make the trees give 2 gallons on a 36 degree cloudy day with no breeze. And if it is sunny and 36 and up with no breeze then we have to be right on top of things and fire the RO up just to keep up.

This could be a great season if we get sunny days with all this snow to get the lows in the 20's at night. I just need the breeze to not blow. to keep all the bush running otherwise it will be up to the trees on the slope to carry the season again.

[eagle lake sugar]

I remember those days too...but after we went to high vac those days are fewer than good days if the wind is not blowing. I can make the trees give 2 gallons on a 36 degree cloudy day with no breeze. And if it is sunny and 36 and up with no breeze then we have to be right on top of things and fire the RO up just to keep up.

This could be a great season if we get sunny days with all this snow to get the lows in the 20's at night. I just need the breeze to not blow. to keep all the bush running otherwise it will be up to the trees on the slope to carry the season again.

We are a couple hundred miles north of most producers. People around here with buckets average about a pint per tap on a good year. I have a wet/dry system, 4.5 taps per lateral, 100 ft. laterals, 24 inches of vacuum to the tap, good slope, etc. I'm able to get .25 to .3 per tap.

[wildlifewarrior]

Thanks for the suggestions and onsite guys. I decided to go with two 6 stars, since it would be easier to plug one than install a new one. I am pumped to see how things go this year, we added those 60 taps, the guzzler, a 2x6 mason drop tube and some other little tidbits. We had to span about 120 feet or so up 15 feet in the air, so we had to install a few supports, I am worried that the mainline will pool in-between the supports and we will have to scramble to fix it,. Luckily it is in the section of the bush that has the greatest elevation change in our favor. I guess thats what the first week of the season is truly for.

Thanks again for the help and good luck this season, I hope you get some 1 gallon runs this year eagle lake!

Mike