Anyone use the digital refractometers?

[Bruce L]

See the new digital refractometer in Leader's new catalogue, just wonder if anyone as any experience,good or bad with them?

[Bruce L]

Nobody has tried the digital refractometers,are they too new?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have the Milwaukee green refractometer in Leader catalog. I use it for checking mainly permeate to make sure my passing any sugar. I am very happy with it $138 shipped to me from Amazon. Christmas present from my wife and kids.

[mountainvan]

I've used a Hanna digital refractometer for 10 years. Use it for sap, concentrate, permeate, and finished syrup. I got mine on eBay for around $140.

[DrTimPerkins]

See the new digital refractometer in Leader's new catalogue, just wonder if anyone as any experience,good or bad with them?

I believe they are now selling the Milwaukee refractometer. They work fine for an inexpensive unit, as long as care is taken to ensure that they are used properly. Make sure that the liquid you are measuring and the refractometer have enough time to thermally equilibrate. I don't think you want to use really hot syrup with this particular unit.

[mellondome]

Been using a Hanna 96801 for couple years. Same as mountainvan . Use it for everything. Ebay special.

[MISugarDaddy]

This will be our second year using a Hanna 96801 and have been very happy with it. We felt it was worth the expense to be able to accurately test the permeate and the concentrate coming out of our RO.
Gary

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have the Milwaukee green refractometer in Leader catalog. I use it for checking mainly permeate to make sure my passing any sugar. I am very happy with it $138 shipped to me from Amazon. Christmas present from my wife and kids.

I should mention that mine was $ 138 with a nice padded case which was one of the reasons I got it. It came down to it or the Hannah 96801 and the reviews were about the same. The Milwaukee is probably a little bigger, but still handy and very easy to use. I use it like Gary to check permeate and sometimes sugar too out of RO.

[Bruce L]

Do both units have the temperature compensation,or do you have to lok at a chart to alter your readings? I was considering double checking the hydrometer readings, but like Dr. Tim said I would have to watch the temperature of the syrup off the evaporator.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The Milwaukee I have and Leader sells is temp compensated but not designed for boiling hot syrup.

[mellondome]

Both units appear identical. The hanna also has auto temp compensation. 2 drops of hot syrup will cool very rapidly.

[Green lid]

works OK for syrup,wouldn't be without for sap

[johnallin]

We use a Misco with two temp scales. One for under 86° and one for above, it works very well with hot or room temp syrup, and as most do has automatic temperature compensation.

You're only using a drop of syrup for your sample so the temperature drops from boiling to "readable" very rapidly.
We use it for sap, and testing density prior to bottling. It's not cheap, but is well made.

You'll find them listed on Maple Guys site -"New Equipment" tab at top of page. Link to Misco site with more info follows:

https://www.misco.com/digital-wine-refractometer/maple-syrup-refractometer-brix-sugar-emaplec#detailed_description-tab.

[maple marc]

I bought a basic digital unit last season and was disappointed that accuracy is very low when testing unfiltered syrup. It seems to be accurate with filtered syrup, but I had hoped to use it for balancing the density of unfiltered syrup. Maybe the fancy Miscos are better.

[mellondome]

When using an optical based prism to determine sugar content, unfiltered will effect all electronic units. I think it will also effect refractometrs as well.

[DrTimPerkins]

When using an optical based prism to determine sugar content, unfiltered will effect all electronic units. I think it will also effect refractometrs as well.

Actually, undissolved solids have little effect on refractometer measurements. http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/Maple%20News%20-%20Cloudiness%20article.pdf

[sapman]

How about the Atago units? Anyone on here ever use one?

[maple marc]

Dr. Tim, thank you for the link to the article. This conflicts with the results of my fastidious testing last season using a Milwaukee M871. My numbers testing unfiltered syrups were very inconsistent. Perhaps Misco units are much better than others at measuring unfiltered syrup. Is this possible? I spent a long time on the phone with a Milwaukee rep helping me troubleshoot, and his conclusion was that digital units would have problems with undissolved solids. He claimed that the "guts" of all makes were the same.

Also, did you measure the brix of the samples with a hydrometer and compare the results with the digital refractometer?

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim, thank you for the link to the article. This conflicts with the results of my fastidious testing last season using a Milwaukee M871. My numbers testing unfiltered syrups were very inconsistent. Perhaps Misco units are much better than others at measuring unfiltered syrup. Is this possible

The "guts" are definitely NOT the same. I can't say for certain, but if I had to guess, I'd say the less costly units have a smaller receiving sensor, and thus any particles might have a larger influence. Alternatively, those units without a cover might be scattering a lot of light into the sensor causing incorrect readings.

We didn't have to measure with a hydrometer in those experiments as the point was not to compare a refractometer with a hydrometer, but rather was to compare cloudy and clear samples across a range of sugar densities.

[madmapler]

I just purchased a milwaukee ma871 (looks the same as the Hanna 801) on ebay for $115.99 free shipping if anyones interested.

[sapman]

The reason I asked about the Atago was because I got an email about it, as I'm sure many did. They will actually send you a loaner to use for 1 week during season to try. But as I haven't used any kind before, not sure how to quantify results, except comparing to a hydrometer. Sure would be nice to know instantly how much sugar is left in the concentrate when pushing it out with permeate. Usually takes my hydrometer awhile to stabilize because of turbulence.

Will turbulent sap (with air bubbles) skew results?

[Moser's Maple]

we have the atago PAL maple and very pleased with it, also have a misco (long story why we have 2) and I would say they are both excellent units, and many times when comparing the 2 they are .1-.2 at the most difference from each other. and yes they are both ATC units

[maple marc]

I hope Dr. Tim will answer this....others are welcome also. When testing the density of a batch of syrup--bucket or barrel--with a hydrometer, the hydrometer is floating in the syrup itself. In effect it is sampling a large amount of syrup--an average of the density of all that is in the container. With a refractometer, only a drop or two is sampled. I would assume that the location of that drop in the container is critical. In an unstirred container, is there density strata? What about when adding water or sap to lower the density of the syrup? How much stirring is required before a refractometer can make an accurate test of density? Could a hydrometer actually be more reliable than a refractometer?

Thanks for any ideas.
Marc

[Polish Wizard]

I plan to have my first-ever tap and boil this coming spring, and plan to stay small for home use.
I'm trying to purchase the necessary items before I run out of time, and the vendors run out of stock.

I'm debating whether to purchase syrup hydrometers and a sample cup --- or should I purchase a digital refractometer instead.
I have no experience with either method, and threads make me wonder if a refractometer would be a waste of money.
Any post I've read and anyone I talk to says keep a spare hydrometer and anticipate them breaking.

Purchasing two hydrometers and a cup would be almost 1/2 way toward the expense of a refractometer -- such as a Hanna Hi96801 Digital.
Replacement hydrometers would cut further into the cost separation.

For my anticipated use determining when to pull syrup off a barrel stove, which way should I invest for "test" equipment?
This would certainly be high temp sampling as discussed in this thread.

Any suggestions on how best to spend my money?

[DrTimPerkins]

In effect it is sampling a large amount of syrup--an average of the density of all that is in the container. With a refractometer, only a drop or two is sampled. I would assume that the location of that drop in the container is critical. In an unstirred container, is there density strata? What about when adding water or sap to lower the density of the syrup? How much stirring is required before a refractometer can make an accurate test of density? Could a hydrometer actually be more reliable than a refractometer?

If the syrup is not-homogenous, then the hydrometer may not give an accurate indication of the average syrup density. It is important, especially if you add water to dilute, to mix the syrup well before taking a measurement. Syrup can stratify a little bit, especially if you're drawing off over a period of time, and if you're switching sides during that period of time.

With a refractometer, it is important to get a good representation of the batch. Mix thoroughly, put a few drops of syrup in the well, and close lid (if equipped with one). Typically if it is hot syrup you'll have to wait a little for temperature equilibration. With really hot syrup, there can actually be some continued evaporation from the surface of the liquid, so your reading might be a bit higher than the bulk syrup itself.