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pennslytucky
02-08-2015, 09:39 PM
this is my first year doing syrup here at my new place. before, i always did buckets because thats just how we did it there at my uncles. he just did roadside trees so it wasnt a big hassle. i bought this property 2 years ago and have been thinning trees and cleaning up my woods in preparation for this year. i had a grand idea of the whole setup in my head that i thought would be best, but the more i read, the more im questioning myself. this has to go well or wifey will skin me for spending the money and not replacing it :/

this is all gravity

i have good slope. my property is at the bottom of a long southwest facing hillside. theres 200' of elevation in 2000' of distance. theres a creek cut right down through the maples sweeping around to the swamp below my house. i have 1000' of .57id "mainline" (its black poly irrigation line for hydroponic greenhouse application). the first 500' is already strung on very tight, fairly straight hi tensile, starting at my 300gal tank below the sugar house. i was going to add the second 500' roll to it and go on up the hill after i got this half plumbed up, but i am concerned now that its too far for the smaller line?
the slick thing about my hydro equipment (besides the fact i already have all of it) is that the laterals connect and seal perfectly every time using the emitter T's that snap and seal right into the mainline wall. all the lateral tubing is 3/16"id. theres plenty of slope on the main, and all the laterals will have 10-20' minimum of drop to it. my trees are all within 75' on either side of the creek draw.
with a 3x6 flat pan evaporator, i am fairly sure i wont be short on sap to boil :) but i know a couple "real" sugar makers who would be glad to have the extra water to boil so id like it to be fairly efficient.

will my small main be able to handle 200-250 taps over 1000' length? theres never a shortage of nutrient flow in these lines but thats with a pump pushing it from one end. i wonder about the friction issue. i plan on running the bottom 30-40 taps (2-3 laterals)to the tank separately instead of dropping into the main, unless you guys dont see an issue with it.

i really appreciate all the knowledge here, and thanks for any help in advance. i need this thing to just work well because i still have the arch to build, and theres currently no walls or roof on the "sugar house! haha. if i can get 40 gallon of good syrup out this year, ill be able to talk the boss into a little expansion for next year

spud
02-09-2015, 09:22 AM
Running a one inch main right up the creek for 1000 feet will work fine for your gravity set-up. 200-250 taps is fine for one inch pipe. In the future if you ever go vacuum (I hope you do ) then just run a 1 1/4 inch dry line right above the mainline. I would run all the laterals into the mainline. Best of luck.

Spud

BreezyHill
02-09-2015, 11:18 AM
10% slope is very good for a gravity setup. I am a vacuum guy...that being said you have the ability with this system to produce vacuum by establishing a column of sap in the system you have the potential to create respectable vacuum levels.
Yes, you will have frictional losses as all systems do, but, with that kind of slope you have plenty of capacity for 250 taps on a gravity system.

I would suggest that you reassure yourself by reading more about the 3/16 and how to produce vacuum, you need a column of sap that fills the diameter of the tubing.

My concern with the system is: will the irrigation tubing collapse under the vacuum?

While I respect your fiscal responsibility I am uncertain if the investment will pay off if the tubing you are using is the drip emitter line. What I have used of this line it will flatten when not under pressure.

I would suggest that you check the specs on the tubing as to its crush rating.
Ben

pennslytucky
02-09-2015, 11:21 AM
Next year it definitely will get bigger main. It's not in the budget this year. I'm stuck with the 9/16"id. I'm trying to envision what 15-20gph looks like from a garden hose (gal/ tap in a hard 16hr run) and I don't think it would be much of a heavy flow. Like a 1/4" stream out the end. But I worry about friction half way up the line causing trouble

pennslytucky
02-09-2015, 11:25 AM
That's something I hadn't thought of on the 5/3 tubing. ..I'll get the brake line hand vac pump out and see. U really think I'll fill the main enough to pull any real vac on the laterals?

maple flats
02-09-2015, 11:29 AM
I'm not sure you can find saddles to connect to the irrigation piping. I it is rigid tubing try Star saddles, built on a SS band clamp. If it is not rigid tubing you are likely not going to find saddles. hopefully it is std. black poly. The rest of your design sounds good. With a good drop in elevation you can get good natural vacuum using 3/16 tubing and you can put more than 5 taps on a line. Read up on the max. taps. Be aware that taps in the last 30' of drop will not help. In fact, you may want to run the 3/16 to the 30' spot and then go straight to the main. Then run 5/16 on the lower section and tie to the main.

BreezyHill
02-09-2015, 11:37 AM
The capacity of a mainline is calculated on the flattest part of the run. This could be used in your favor... a section of mainline prior to the tank of say 100' could be run at as little as 1% slope to fill the line of the required column of sap.

Great idea to use the break bleeder!

Let me know how it stands up.

Ben

pennslytucky
02-09-2015, 12:47 PM
Good Ideas guys. Keep em coming! I really appreciate it.

The main tubing Is made to have an elasticity around the circumference with little stretch lengthwise. When u poke a hole and pop an emitter/tee into it, it grabs it and seals very well. I'm reading here that I should have only one lateral per tee? I can just plug the other port and pop another tee in for the next lateral. I have lots of this stuff so I'll Do some experimenting and post up here what happens. You guys are making me feel much better about this :)

maple flats
02-09-2015, 05:30 PM
Is this the lay flat PVC tubing? I doubt you can successfully use that for maple mainline. You need either blue maple tubing or black water tubing.
I run drip in my blueberries, using lay flat PVC to feed the lines down each row, I see no way it could be used for maple mainline. It will not vent the air (gases) properly and then the flow will suffer.

pennslytucky
02-09-2015, 09:03 PM
No. This is commercial greenhouse stuff. Www.cropking.com the main tubing Is pretty stiff poly. 25" vac doesn't bother it at all. The 3/16 tubing doesn't collapse either