Vacuum setup for newbies

[VT_K9]

We are upgrading this year to an oil cooled liquid ring vacuum. It is a 3hp Airteck from CDL. At this point we will be turning it on and off manually or a timer if weather can be reasonably predicted. We have a 850' run of 1 1/2" black plastic run to the mechanical releaser in the Sap Shack on top of a 600 gallon tank.

I am pretty comfortable with the setup so far, but I am sure there is more than one way to hook everything up correctly. I am looking to hook it up the first time for the most efficient use. I am looking at creating a large 3-4" PVC "chamber" (thinking of one maybe two 10' lengths) coming off the pump before getting into the 1 1/2" line. I am thinking this may help with any offset when the releaser dumps. Is this overkill, good, or am I missing something?

I would also like to hear opinions on the placement of the water trap...near the releaser or near the pump?

At this point due to an injury I am skeptical our tap count will increase beyond our current 300, but it may go up by about 75 if time allows (we have plans to go up to about 500 on this run). We have to finish the Sap Shack and set up the vacuum before the season starts.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Put the moisture trap near the pump so you also remove any moisture that condenses in the pipe,
If you put in a balance tank, I think it would work best near the releaser

[Super Sapper]

I would also think that the balance tank should be near the releaser as your 850' of pipe is your limiting factor on cfm.

[BAP]

VT_K9, I would put a thermostat on your pump. They aren't too expensive and save a lot of time turning your pump on and off. Also, you don't miss any sap because the pump is on when the sap is running. I used to have 7 pumps on thermostats when I used to sugar on large scale. I have posted a link below to some. If buying locally, look for one made for refrigeration like is used for walk in coolers or freezers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMOTE-BULB-REFRIGERATION-THERMOSTAT-TEMPERATURE-CONTROL-TH-1609-/191467208886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9455c0b6

[GeneralStark]

We are upgrading this year to an oil cooled liquid ring vacuum. It is a 3hp Airteck from CDL. At this point we will be turning it on and off manually or a timer if weather can be reasonably predicted. We have a 850' run of 1 1/2" black plastic run to the mechanical releaser in the Sap Shack on top of a 600 gallon tank.

I am pretty comfortable with the setup so far, but I am sure there is more than one way to hook everything up correctly. I am looking to hook it up the first time for the most efficient use. I am looking at creating a large 3-4" PVC "chamber" (thinking of one maybe two 10' lengths) coming off the pump before getting into the 1 1/2" line. I am thinking this may help with any offset when the releaser dumps. Is this overkill, good, or am I missing something?

I would also like to hear opinions on the placement of the water trap...near the releaser or near the pump?

At this point due to an injury I am skeptical our tap count will increase beyond our current 300, but it may go up by about 75 if time allows (we have plans to go up to about 500 on this run). We have to finish the Sap Shack and set up the vacuum before the season starts.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

Mike - I am using the same pump, but water cooled. It is a great little unit and you will be happy with it. As others have said, put the moisture trap with the pump as water will condense in the 1.5" air line. In terms of the "balance tank", you may not need it with a moisture trap and that long a run of 1.5" pipe, but using 3" pvc from pump to moisture trap to 1.5" line probably wouldn't hurt anything.

My 2 cents on running the pump. Is this a 3-phase motor? If so you have flexibility on what speed you run it and can save some electricity as you have lots more cfms than you need.

I wouldn't bother with a thermostat/switch and would just run the pump 24/7, unless it freezes up for an extended period. These pumps , especially if run with a vfd, consume very little electricity. My electrical consumption cost less than $1/gallon made last season to run the pump 24/7. Granted, I do use a vfd with a transducer and was generally running between 45-50Hz, instead of 60Hz wide open.

In my experience it is very difficult to know when the trees will start and stop running, and a thermoswitch at the pump won't really get a sense of what is going on in the woods. The additional sap you will collect will be well worth running the pump 24/7 during the season.

[BAP]

Set properly, a thermostat will turn the pump on and off with thawing and freezing of sap. A refrigeration thermostat has a 3 degree differential, meaning that the turn on point is 3 degrees warmer than the turn off point. That way you set it to turn on at slightly over 32 and it will turn off 3 degrees lower so that as it is cooling down it keeps running until it is froze up good. Why would you waste the electricity and were and tear on your equipment running it 24/7 for a $28 thermostat?

[GeneralStark]

Set properly, a thermostat will turn the pump on and off with thawing and freezing of sap. A refrigeration thermostat has a 3 degree differential, meaning that the turn on point is 3 degrees warmer than the turn off point. That way you set it to turn on at slightly over 32 and it will turn off 3 degrees lower so that as it is cooling down it keeps running until it is froze up good. Why would you waste the electricity and were and tear on your equipment running it 24/7 for a $28 thermostat?

Simply put, because in my experience, leaving the pump on will put more sap in the tank over the course of a season than turning it on and off with a thermo-switch. I have done it both ways, and from now in I will leave the pump on.

Once again, I nor a thermo-switch is smart enough to know what is going on in the woods at any given time. I have observed radically different air temperatures throughout the woods and in relation to air temp. where the vacuum pump is. I have collected a gallon/tap on days when the sun warmed the trees and the thermometer read below freezing at the sugarhouse, and a thermoswitch would not have turned the pump on. I have seen lines thaw and run under vacuum when the thermometer read below freezing. Air temp. is only one factor, the temperatures of the trees is critical as well.

A refrigeration thermostat is designed for a controlled environment, not a sugarbush where there may be a wide range of microclimates at any given time.

I don't see leaving the pump on as a "waste" of electricity as the pump on pays for the electricity and the increased production from doing so is considerably greater than the pennies it costs to run the pump. Wear and tear is a non issue when using a constant duty industrial pump designed to run 24/7-365 days a year. I run my equipment for one month of the year, so it may as well do the work.

I suspect this is a "to each his own" type situation, but this is how I see it. I'm not the only sugarmaker that sees it this way either.:)

[VT_K9]

Thanks for the input from everyone. I think I will do a 3" run of PVC on both ends to keep up the "spare air".

As far as running the pump with a sensor or manually...last year I ran a sap puller with a generator. I would keep a close eye on the weather forecast with an app on my iPad and iPhone. I found the hourly portion to be very accurate. I ran the puller all night several times. The sugar house where the pump is located is about 400' from the house and a short four wheeler ride. I figured with a timer I could be a little more accurate with a 3 am shutoff (after seeing the accuracy of the weather app I used) when the temp dropped below 28 degrees (depending on a few other factors) for example. I like to turn the pump on around 31 degrees in the woods, not necessarily at the sugar house.

Thanks,

Mike

[BreezyHill]

VT K9...I like your idea on the temp of 31 for a cloudy day but I found last season that my lines were starting to thaw at 29 on a sunny day. My electric rate in NYS is pretty hefty and I can pay for a few electronics in a season or two.

So any body got a way to have a switch system that could trigger on a sunny day rather than a cloudy day?

I have a scraped solar fencer that the board puts out 6v with an idea that a 6volt relay could be tripped to operate the lower setting but the darn panel is to efficient and puts out 6v on a cloudy day. I have yet to try covering part of the panel to see if that would work.

So how are you going to support the 3" vac line? Not shooting down the idea, seems intreging to me to have all that cfs of balance tank. 3" to my water trap and 2" for a foot to the releaser made a huge difference to my system. Add in the electric releaser and the cfms to the bush shot right up.

Ben

[Jec]

BAP, would you want a close on rise or close on fall thermostat?
http://www.amazon.com/TH-1609-Refrigeration-Thermostat-Temperature-Control/dp/B00NLE4HHY
Would this work?