Leader quick seal entry fitting issues

[madmapler]

This post has two purposes. First is to alert those who buy these fittings to use on black pipe that they may have problems as I have and secondly to ask if and how some of you have remedied this problem. They dont clamp tightly to all makes of black pipe. I know that pipe varies slightly in diameter so it may not be an issue with all brands. The pipe I'm using is from FW Webb and is made by charter plastics. What really gets me is that their catalog does'nt even mention this issue which leads you to believe that it works with all types of pipe. After all they sell black plastic themselves. After checking their catalog I continued installing these fittings(3/4" and 1") even though I was concerned. Then I contacted my dealer who also was unsuspecting and he started asking around only to find out that several guys have installed these unwittingly and some are using 1" pieces of black pipe cut in half or thirds to use as a shim under the fitting to tighten things up because of the leaks. Apparently they are having some sucess in doing so but none are trying to achieve high vacuum. I should be around 26-7" where the shim idea has only proven sucessful up to 20" from what we've been able to gather. Any experiences and solutions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[unc23win]

Hey Sean,
Sorry I don't have experience with them it seems like quite the dilemma. My only experience with saddles not fitting was the same pipe you are talking about and I couldn't get the Lapierre super saddle to fit because the pipe was too big when the saddle was on the 1" setting.

Making a shim sounds like a poor solution I would have never thought the saddle wouldn't go small enough. I Hope you find a solution because I know the last I talked to you, you were involved in a sizable expansion.

[BreezyHill]

While I am not using this connection when I find a bad saddle the best thing I find is to place it in your right hand get into a pitchers stances and throw the piece of crap. I have tried the shim trick just to come back and change the saddle.
There is nothing more frustrating than a leaky saddle. So don't waste your time. take them back and get ones that work...personally I like the max seal from CDL. Use the bolt lock if you have issues with them being rubbed on by deer or in a spot the wind howls across the pipe and the pipe vibrates.
Ben

[mellondome]

These leader saddles are not adjustable, so using them on thin plastic is probably not a good option. They were designed for maple poly pipe. They work great on 30p.

[adk1]

Yeah I am sure they were designed for the blue 30p mainline. I use the super saddles and like them

[nymapleguy607]

The quick seal saddles to my understanding don't seal on the outside of the pipe, possibly why they feel loose. They seal through the side of the pipe, the bottom nipple on the saddle is tapered so once you make your 5/16 hole and add the gasket the taper on the saddle seals against the 5/16 hole. I have installed a handful of these on 30P mainline and I like them alot better than the older style saddles.

[unc23win]

This is from the Leader site doesn't say anything about how they seal.

"The Quick Seal Mainline Entrance Fitting is the first mainline entrance fitting that actually is designed to fit polyethylene tubing. The fitting has the flexibility to fit around tubing that is not perfectly round. This fitting is not designed for use with black plastic water line. So simple to install! just drill a hole in the top of the mainline, insert the gasket and attach the fitting. Done! then you can easily attach the Quick Seal Mainline Entrance Fitting to your lateral line anchor (hooked connector)."

[madmapler]

The quick seal saddles to my understanding don't seal on the outside of the pipe, possibly why they feel loose. They seal through the side of the pipe, the bottom nipple on the saddle is tapered so once you make your 5/16 hole and add the gasket the taper on the saddle seals against the 5/16 hole.

What you're saying is true and it works great so long as it clamps tight enough to hold the tapered part down in the hole. Thats what worries me. Shimming them on the bottom does tighten them up but without any real experience I do'nt know if I should trust it or chuck them as Breezy said. From what I understand cdl is working on a similar saddle but its not going to help me at this time but apparently its the way to go. I've got a small pump that I think I can set up quickly just to experiment with. I'll post the results.

[BreezyHill]

The quick seal saddles to my understanding don't seal on the outside of the pipe, possibly why they feel loose. They seal through the side of the pipe, the bottom nipple on the saddle is tapered so once you make your 5/16 hole and add the gasket the taper on the saddle seals against the 5/16 hole. I have installed a handful of these on 30P mainline and I like them alot better than the older style saddles.

This sounds like the saddle we had in the late 1980's early 1990's. They are blue and worked fairly well until we cracked up the vacuum level. They had an o ring to seal between the barb and the pipe's inside wall. Under high vac they leaked like crazy. If you get a master seal kit with different thikness O rings you can get them to work; but plan on changing the o rings ever couple of seasons.

Likely the issue with the water pipe is there are different wall sizes depending on the pipe's use, high pressure vs low pressure.

[madmapler]

This is from the Leader site doesn't say anything about how they seal.

"The Quick Seal Mainline Entrance Fitting is the first mainline entrance fitting that actually is designed to fit polyethylene tubing. The fitting has the flexibility to fit around tubing that is not perfectly round. This fitting is not designed for use with black plastic water line. So simple to install! just drill a hole in the top of the mainline, insert the gasket and attach the fitting. Done! then you can easily attach the Quick Seal Mainline Entrance Fitting to your lateral line anchor (hooked connector)." Thats great Jared. Real good to know now that I've installed over 100 of them! You would think they would have that same disclaimer in their catalog but they do'nt. Thanks for doing the research.

[nymapleguy607]

Why not make a slightly smaller hole for the taper to squeeze against? I have to squeeze the saddle down onto the mainline so the strap on the saddle will close, Shouldn't be much difference between the 30P and the black water pipe, If anything the water pipe should have a larger O.D. than the 30P.

[unc23win]

Shouldn't be much difference between the 30P and the black water pipe, If anything the water pipe should have a larger O.D. than the 30P.

I always thought black pipe was larger at least the 1" I have is.

[unc23win]

Thats great Jared. Real good to know now that I've installed over 100 of them! You would think they would have that same disclaimer in their catalog but they do'nt. Thanks for doing the research.

Sean, I hate to give you bad news real bummer for you. I just can't understand having a saddle ratchet or strap or whatever that doesn't go smaller than needed. I bet they added that to the site after the catalog was printed. I hope you find a solution if you can get your dealer to take them back I think the CDL ones are 5/16 hole if you can get them off without messing up the hole that might be the best option to still maintain max production. I have never tried drilling holes bigger, but I have heard it doesn't work too well.

[adk1]

Thats great Jared. Real good to know now that I've installed over 100 of them! You would think they would have that same disclaimer in their catalog but they do'nt. Thanks for doing the research. Yeah, I had thought I had read that as well.

[madmapler]

Well I may have spouted off too soon. I attached a 3' length of 3/4" black line (like I've been using) to a piston pump that gets 23". I installed one of the saddles on that line(plugging all openings of course) and no leaks whatsoever. This was without any shims. In fact I unclamped it under vacuum and pulled the tapered part out of the gasket and it was'nt until it was almost out that it started to leak. When I let go of it, it actually sucked itself back together and sealed on its own. I wiggled it around while it was relatively still loose and still got no leaks. I have to admit that after this little experiment I am really impressed. At this point I'd like to hear if anyone else has used these on black pipe and what their experience has been like. Thanks.

[unc23win]

Awesome news Sean.

[maple flats]

I've never experienced black water pipe that had a bigger O.D. then the blue maple tubing. In my experience the black always has had a thinner wall, thus smaller OD. I have used those saddles for 2 years, the vast majority seal perfectly, but all of my tubing in the last 8 yrs has been blue maple tubing. This year I am trying the new Star saddles, on a SS band clamp. I think they look like an idea that was long over due.

[mellondome]

If you need to "shim" them to get them to seal, put it on the bottom, not on the hole.