Lunchbox Vacuum Releaser

[skinny78]

Has anybody seen or used this compressed air powered pump by Northwood SugarWorks? It is some sort of pump mounted in a cooler to prevent it from freezing. Runs on 30 some psi and is good for 100 taps. Sounds like something great for small producer. I am interested in what kind of pump it is? Does it have diaphragms that will need to be changed? Does it run in oil? What do you guy think?

http://www.northwoodsugarworks.com/about.html


http://youtu.be/R9yK6Rg4zUc


http://youtu.be/ecglOzeP6Ck

[maple flats]

I looked at them at the Verona Maple Conf. They look to be small diaphragm pumps. You want at least 1 spar diaphragm on hand.

[markct]

Sounds like an air operated diaphram pump in the box. Personaly the idea of running my compressor all season sounds like alot of wear and electric expense!

[Acer]

I looked at them at the Verona Maple Conf. They look to be small diaphragm pumps. You want at least 1 spar diaphragm on hand.
Hi Dave,
Testing has shown this not to be the case. The diaphragm should be good for 100000 gallons and does not appear to be susceptible to ice damage. Thanks for stopping by in Verona.
Dean

[Acer]

Sounds like an air operated diaphram pump in the box. Personaly the idea of running my compressor all season sounds like alot of wear and electric expense!
Hi Markct,
Thanks for your comment. For those worried about wear and expense on their compressor,
a reference point is my 5cfm Dewalt runs every 15-30 minutes on 35 taps. Only when the sap is flowing though. The Lunchbox automatically matches itself to the sap flow, and stops using air when the sap flow stops.

Dean

[Acer]

Has anybody seen or used this compressed air powered pump by Northwood SugarWorks? It is some sort of pump mounted in a cooler to prevent it from freezing. Runs on 30 some psi and is good for 100 taps. Sounds like something great for small producer. I am interested in what kind of pump it is? Does it have diaphragms that will need to be changed? Does it run in oil? What do you guy think?

http://www.northwoodsugarworks.com/about.html


http://youtu.be/R9yK6Rg4zUc


http://youtu.be/ecglOzeP6Ck

Thanks for the inquiry skinny.
it is an air diaphragm pump.
so far no need to change diaphragms.....
I do not understand your question about oil, the cooler is filled with clean water which freezes at 32f. Sap freezes at 31.7f. That difference though small is enough to keep the sap liquid in the pump at all times during the sugar season.

You can expect 15-20 inches of vacuum.
Thanks

[Clan Delaney]

Dean-

Is the frozen water in the box freezing just around the lines or the pump as well? Any issues or concerns with the pump housing getting tweaked by the expanding ice?

[skinny78]

I didn't know what kind of pump it was and therefore wondered how it was lubricated. Diaphragm pump = no lubrication.

[Acer]

Dean-

Is the frozen water in the box freezing just around the lines or the pump as well? Any issues or concerns with the pump housing getting tweaked by the expanding ice?

Hi skinny,
Thanks for the question, the ice does form around the pump but does not cause any problems.
My guess is that the water has somewhere to go when it is freezing so it doesn't exert much pressure on the pump.
also the pump housing is more robust than the cooler side....
The ice should only form downwards a couple inches from the lid. If its looking like its going to freeze more solid than that so that the pump is engulfed in ice its time to warm it up. That would be a rare long cold spell to freeze it that much.

The attached pic was from march 20 2014.
It was cold here. These are the AVERAGE temperatures from the preceeding days
date temp
3/12 33.5
3/13 21.3
3/14 18.8
3/15 30.9
3/16 28.4
3/17 16.77
3/18 20.1
3/19 27.0
3/20 35.4

The average temp was below freezing for 7 days before I opened her up to take the pic.
10499

I just wanted to add that the pic is of a prototype and not reflective of the quality of the production product!

Dean

[skinny78]

I have injected spray foam in cooler lids, this may help even more.

[Clan Delaney]

Dean- Got another one for ya. Let's say I wanted to run this, not off a compressor, but off a one-time pressurized tank (pressurize tank to 150psi in the shop, then take it out to the bush). Have you done any tests like this to determine how long the releaser would run?

[markct]

My guess Patrick would be that it wouldn't run for long, I use air pumps a good bit at work for pumping oil, larger of course, but they are very air hungry for the volume they move. Keeps a 5 hp compressor cycling pretty often just to run a 3/4 inch air diaphragm pump. Im sure these use less but still doubt it would run long unless you had a huge tank!

[Acer]

This comes up often and I haven't done testing...
a typical performance number for an aodd pump when used as vacuum/releaser would be 4 volumes of air at "standard conditions" for 1 volume of liquid pumped.
this means a 5 gallon tank at 150 psi would contain 50 gallons of air at standard conditions and pump 12 gallons of sap. Probably not practical. Certainly not enjoyable.

Propane starts to get interesting if you are up to the challenges of dealing with compressed flammable gasses.
5 gallons of propane makes 1300 gallons of propane at ambient. Which could pump 300 ish gallons of liquid.

In the end a really long air line is likely to be the best choice.

[markct]

what cfm these take? And how many gph they pump? Im curious about using one as a releaser on a reg vac system since an air line would be cheaper than electric to run far

[Acer]

what cfm these take? And how many gph they pump? Im curious about using one as a releaser on a reg vac system since an air line would be cheaper than electric to run far

Hi MarkCt,
Thanks for the question, the Lunchbox has to find its own flow/vacuum level operating point.
It will not work as a stand alone releaser on a vacuum system. It will either run all the time or not at all.


Dean

[Acer]

what cfm these take? And how many gph they pump? Im curious about using one as a releaser on a reg vac system since an air line would be cheaper than electric to run far

Open flow for that pump at 80 psi air is 168 gph. You will never get that amount pulling against vacuum.
Our test set will do over 60gph at 15-20 inches.
for reference we rate it at 100 taps which under vacuum should produce about .25 gpm of sap or 15 gph.

Some day I will post required cfm/tap but unfortunately can't get to it right now.

[softmaple]

set up the lunchbox today. it worked better than gravity would have. found many micro leaks in my old tubing setup so fixed those. with 10 leaks and a loose tap the 2 gallon air compressor ran every 5 and a half minutes on 29 taps. it worked better than I expected. happy to have made the investment.

[softmaple]

well after working a week on 29 taps and my father shutting it down a half day due to running every two minutes (he thought there was an air leak) but because the sap was running so good it needed to keep up with the flow, 200 gallons is not bad. whats a good week going to bring? a good week on gravity would yield 100 gallons or so.

[Bricklayer]

was wondering what people used as an air line? it looks like in the video its just 5/16 sap tubing. For this system to work for me I would have to run about 500 feet of air line to the unit then have it pump up about 20 feet and back about 400 feet downhill to the shack with the sap. will this system do that? I would assume I would need to put a check valve at the end of the line where it comes into the shack to stop syphoning?

[Acer]

Hi Brandon,
Just saw this, how many taps do you want to run on the lunchbox? I run 45 on a system very much like you describe with 5/16 tubing all around, If you were trying to run 100 taps on a 400' 5/16 pump line I would do a head loss calculation to make sure that was not a limiting factor( I can assist with that). You don't need a check valve anywhere. Hopefully your other questions were answered in the pm.

[bix]

I am currently using a lunch box vacuum re-leaser with a line of 77 taps. I have 500 feet of 5/16 line hooked up to the re-leaser. I have tried gravity and hooked to the re-leaser. The re-leaser definitely outperforms the gravity. I would highly recommend it for the small operator. Thank you to Theron Pierce (PA Thor) for giving me the opportunity to give it a try.

115481154911547

[Bricklayer]

I wish I had of known of this product sooner. Im buying one for sure. with the vacuum it produces would it pull sap from low spots? there will be a couple of spots that I can tap now that are lower by 10' then my last tap now. are you running just one line with 77 taps or multiple lines tee'd together near lunchbox. cant really run a mainline with this setup.

[bix]

Brick layer, I ran 500 feet of 5/16 tubing up through a ravine. I tied in 77 taps to that liNE to the releaser. Then I ran 150 feet of 5/16 to the compressor. I hope this helps.

[Bricklayer]

Was any of the line downhill or was it all pretty much gravity to the releaser? In the spot I want to tap I would have to redo all my tubing. My last tap is already 15-20 feet up in the tree. The other taps I want to get to would be lower. I don't think I would get enough pull to get to them. I might be able to run a separate line and tee it into the line somewhere farther down. It's not a very gravity friendly bush. But a real pita to do with buckets.

[Marvel26]

Is there a reduction in efficiency as the distance from the compressor increases or max distance to the compressor?

[Bricklayer]

Could I run 2 5/16 lines from different parts of the Bush to a tee then one line to the releaser. I would assume on gravity it would clog up but with the vacuum this releaser creates it should pull it through? I might even have 3 lines connected together. Can't really hook a mainline to this system because the releaser is only 5/16. Unless I switched all my drops and laterals to 3/16 and used the 5/16 as a mainline but they would still have to connect to the releaser. Will vacuum be the same with 2 lines teed with different size runs?

[Acer]

Is there a reduction in efficiency as the distance from the compressor increases or max distance to the compressor?

Sure, but its all manageable at the recommended tap count. Stopwatched my 45 tap bush and it used .07 cfm(90) when running.....

[Acer]

Could I run 2 5/16 lines from different parts of the Bush to a tee then one line to the releaser. I would assume on gravity it would clog up but with the vacuum this releaser creates it should pull it through? I might even have 3 lines connected together. Can't really hook a mainline to this system because the releaser is only 5/16. Unless I switched all my drops and laterals to 3/16 and used the 5/16 as a mainline but they would still have to connect to the releaser. Will vacuum be the same with 2 lines teed with different size runs?

Mine has four 5/16 all teed together. Too embarassed to post a pic. Works fine.
A star fitting would be a little more professional.

[Sugarbush Ridge]

Acer Dean, Will this work with 3/4" mainline with laterals out from mainline if reduced back down to 5/16" to the lunchbox?

[Acer]

Acer Dean, Will this work with 3/4" mainline with laterals out from mainline if reduced back down to 5/16" to the lunchbox?
It will work with a mainline setup.
When ordering request the threaded adapter I think its 1/2npt. You can get that to plumb to the 3/4 mainline. Looks like you have a lot of taps. Leak control will be important or you will be mad at me.

[Bricklayer]

Is the fitting the same on all the lunchboxes you make or is it specific to what size tubing your using?

[Acer]

Is the fitting the same on all the lunchboxes you make or is it specific to what size tubing your using?

Lunchbox are all the same 3 x 3/8 push fit bulkhead fitting. Into that you can insert:
Standard fittings: 3pcs 3/8 x 5/16 barb.
Optional fittings: 2 pcs 3/8 x 5/16 barb and 1pc 3/8 x 1/2npt.
The 1/2 npt is an easy mate to star fitting or 3/4 barb for mainline.

[Marvel26]

I am seriously considering a small vacuum system for next year....this year has been abysmal for sap production. One of my stands is very flat with 66 taps that I create slope on in three different lines that run into barrels. I could theoretically create a very gentle slope (1 or 2% in places and a bit more in places) with a 1/2" mainline all the way across the stand and then across a longer stretch to within 200 feet of my house (less than 1000' total length). After that there is a 15-20 foot rise to the back door. Would I be able to put this pump at the end of the sloped mainline and suck sap as well as pump up the rise at the same time or should there be a collection barrel at the end of the main line with a transfer pump to deal with the rise?

Thanks

Rob

[Acer]

I am seriously considering a small vacuum system for next year....this year has been abysmal for sap production. One of my stands is very flat with 66 taps that I create slope on in three different lines that run into barrels. I could theoretically create a very gentle slope (1 or 2% in places and a bit more in places) with a 1/2" mainline all the way across the stand and then across a longer stretch to within 200 feet of my house (less than 1000' total length). After that there is a 15-20 foot rise to the back door. Would I be able to put this pump at the end of the sloped mainline and suck sap as well as pump up the rise at the same time or should there be a collection barrel at the end of the main line with a transfer pump to deal with the rise?

Thanks

Rob
Not sure I have a complete picture of your situation from your description.
If the 66 are not spread out all over the place, I would put the lunchbox in the middle or at the low point of the trees, and run 5/16 from the lunchbox to the trees in a star configuration.
Low slope mainlines are bad news. They freeze solid and stay frozen, and you dont get much sap.
The lunchbox will pump the sap back up your little rise no problem.
I would start with a 5/16 pump line. It might not be optimal but its a good place to start. Nice thing about using 5/16 for a.pump line is it thaws the same time as the laterals. How long is the pump line?
Dean

[Marvel26]

I'm not sure if this will clarify anything as I had to adjust the image a bit. This is the small grove of mature reds behind my house with 66 potential taps....well they aren't potential, they are tapped right now with three different lines leading to barrels.

Total distance of down slope "mainline" is just 590ish feet followed by the upslope transfer line. I have separated out the collection mainline in green (follows the majority of the maples), what I am calling the down slope transfer line in blue and the upslope transfer line in yellow. the lengths you see are for each section of "mainline" (green, blue and yellow). I have a few laterals in red but none are more than 30 feet long

11646

I checked the change in height and I can get about a 12 - 14 foot drop from one end of the collection mainline to the pump location (2% slope over 590 feet) so as you mentioned 5/16 may be the only viable way to do it.

Normally, having 66 taps on 5/16 gravity is a no no....does vacuum negate this faux pas?

Thanks for your help

Rob

Update: I just checked the image and it is wayyyy too small for you to see. I am going to PM you the pdf if possible

[Acer]

I'm not sure if this will clarify anything as I had to adjust the image a bit. This is the small grove of mature reds behind my house with 66 potential taps....well they aren't potential, they are tapped right now with three different lines leading to barrels.

Total distance of down slope "mainline" is just 590ish feet followed by the upslope transfer line. I have separated out the collection mainline in green (follows the majority of the maples), what I am calling the down slope transfer line in blue and the upslope transfer line in yellow. the lengths you see are for each section of "mainline" (green, blue and yellow). I have a few laterals in red but none are more than 30 feet long

11646

I checked the change in height and I can get about a 12 - 14 foot drop from one end of the collection mainline to the pump location (2% slope over 590 feet) so as you mentioned 5/16 may be the only viable way to do it.

Normally, having 66 taps on 5/16 gravity is a no no....does vacuum negate this faux pas?

Thanks for your help

Rob

Update: I just checked the image and it is wayyyy too small for you to see. I am going to PM you the pdf if possible

Lets start with reds. If they are in a full on swamp don't bother unless you are making a little for your table.
I used to tap 1000 swamp reds till the year I got 11 gallons of syrup off them.(with vacuum).
Ill assume that since you have some down slope, they are high enough not to be in the swamp.
I would put the lunchbox right in the grove and run a bunch of 5/16 out to your trees. If its really flat in that oxbow, put the lunchbox in the middle and run somewhere between 4 and 6 blue lines out and spread your taps out amongst them(10-15 taps per lateral is fine). A single 5/16 pump line should be fine to take all that sap back to your barrel, even up the little slope. Keep it out of the pines and hemlock so it thaws quick.
Remember that with the 20" of vacuum your 5/16 laterals can go up and down a bit, it will all get sucked along.

Short version: put the lunchbox with the trees, 5/16 star with a bunch of laterals.
5/16 pump line from the lunchbox all the way back to your barrel. String it like a lateral so it doesnt get in the snow and freeze.

[Marvel26]

Cool, thanks

The elevation of the land is difficult to see and I apologize for not mentioning what type of terrain they are in. As you guessed, all the maples are on the secondary plateau of the flood plain, a good 6-8 feet above any swampy ground.

they do get flooded every decade or so when a huge spring freshet goes through, or like the 2010 flood up here the entire area had 20' of water over it but those a rare and don;t last long enough to impact the soil.

If I put the lunchbox with the trees it would also reduce the upslope elevation from 15-20 to 8-12 feet as the maple grove is higher than the ground on my little peninsula, where I was initially going to run the line to.

[Acer]

Cool, thanks

The elevation of the land is difficult to see and I apologize for not mentioning what type of terrain they are in. As you guessed, all the maples are on the secondary plateau of the flood plain, a good 6-8 feet above any swampy ground.

they do get flooded every decade or so when a huge spring freshet goes through, or like the 2007 flood up here the entire area had 20' of water over it but those a rare and don;t last long enough to impact the soil.

If I put the lunchbox with the trees it would also reduce the upslope elevation from 15-20 to 8-12 feet as the maple grove is higher than the ground on my little peninsula, where I was initially going to run the line to.

Sounds perfect. You won't believe how easy it all is once installed.
Dean

[Marvel26]

One last question, the air line going to the pump as well as the sap pump line would be ~550 feet maybe 500 if I get a few extension cords for the compressor.

Would the pump receive enough CFM and pressure to operate with a line that long?

[Acer]

One last question, the air line going to the pump as well as the sap pump line would be ~550 feet maybe 500 if I get a few extension cords for the compressor.

Would the pump receive enough CFM and pressure to operate with a line that long?

Yes. That length of air hose is not a problem.

[Sugarbush Ridge]

Dean, I know I have more taps than one lunchbox vacuum reaser can handle but I could split lines with thoughts of using more than one lunchbox. As I live so far out from anyone using vacuum I can't just run and see how others do vacuum so I have a lot of questions and may have to do some trail and error. But your lunchbox is interesting. Possible that a larger size could be built?

[Acer]

Dean, I know I have more taps than one lunchbox vacuum reaser can handle but I could split lines with thoughts of using more than one lunchbox. As I live so far out from anyone using vacuum I can't just run and see how others do vacuum so I have a lot of questions and may have to do some trail and error. But your lunchbox is interesting. Possible that a larger size could be built?

No plans for a larger unit at this time.
Get one, if you like it get another.

[Acer]

Did a 200 tap test with the Lunchbox and it was marginal, it worked but leaks could really be an issue, if you like to run things on the edge go ahead you wont hurt it, but I can't recommend it in good conscience.
So if you want to push tap count a few past 100 taps that's fine but 200 is too far for one unit by itself.
Dean

[Ed R]

Could I run this off a rechargable car jumper with built in 150 psi air compressor in a remote location?

[Acer]

Could I run this off a rechargable car jumper with built in 150 psi air compressor in a remote location?

I don't think that would be practical.
How remote? Long air lines can work.
Dean

[Ed R]

just over a half mile. Just looking at any alternatives to running a shurflo or guzzler off of a battery, which essentially the jumper is.

[Acer]

just over a half mile. Just looking at any alternatives to running a shurflo or guzzler off of a battery, which essentially the jumper is.

Half mile is only 4x as far as I run, might be do-able if tap count isnt too high.
Dean

[Bricklayer]

I've been thinking of making an apparatus to hold this unit and be able to hook 6 lines up to it.
I usually have waist deep snow in the bush for most of sugaring season. So I was thinking of building an insulated box about 3 feet off the ground. Lunchbox will go in the box. Drill hole for airline in. And sap out line. What I was thinking of doing is having all 5/16 lines come to a 3/4 or 1/2 mainline mounted to the box. Probley only a 16" long price of mainline. And use connectors for attaching laterals to mainline. This way I can keep the 5/16 lines tight. And keeps it neat and tidy.

[Acer]

I've been thinking of making an apparatus to hold this unit and be able to hook 6 lines up to it.
I usually have waist deep snow in the bush for most of sugaring season. So I was thinking of building an insulated box about 3 feet off the ground. Lunchbox will go in the box. Drill hole for airline in. And sap out line. What I was thinking of doing is having all 5/16 lines come to a 3/4 or 1/2 mainline mounted to the box. Probley only a 16" long price of mainline. And use connectors for attaching laterals to mainline. This way I can keep the 5/16 lines tight. And keeps it neat and tidy.

Insulated box not necessary, its already freeze protected. An insulated box may impair collection by keeping sap frozen after trees are running. A stand is a good idea to keep it level so water doesn't spill out.

Short mainline is fine, star fittings like these are also tidy
https://www.leaderevaporator.com/p-95-multiple-inlet-star-style-plastic-mainline-entrance-fittings.aspx

Dean

[Bricklayer]

Maybe a stand with a little roof and open sides. Is there a fitting for a 5/16 line that you can tie to an anchor tree and it keeps it tight but let's the line pass through with that side being slacked . Then hook it to the lunchbox?

[Mr. Red Maple]

Does anyone know if there are any other products like the lunchbox that would be good for a small producer? And will I be able to run this off a small (inflator) that does 130 psi. It is like a tire inflator that runs constantly.

[Bricklayer]

Dean, you mentioned that the lunchbox can be set up with a star fitting. With no mainline and basically all laterals of different length did you use Rigid or semi Rigid tubing for your lines? Just wondering because I've noticed with semi Rigid tubing if you run huge laterals and stretch them super tight it reduces the iD of the tube. And also is Rigid better for the air supply line to the lunchbox.?

[Bricklayer]

just received my lunchbox, looking forward to using it this upcoming season, im going to use a 6 way star fitting off the lunch box and run 6 lateral lines to about 50 taps this year. next year if all goes well im going to run a 1/2" main and run shorter laterals with more taps. im pretty sure 1/2" main is the biggest I can go with this as the inlet on the lunchbox is 3/8".

[Acer]

Hi Good People,
It's that time of year again, we will be in Verona, come by and say hi.
We will have a modest show discount for attendees on the Lunchbox.
Hope to see you there.

This is our first year after coming out, and so far have been able to deliver right away to everyone. I do try and keep stock at all times, but if there is a bigger than anticipated pre season rush, deliveries could potentially approach 3 weeks.
I don't expect that but please keep it in mind when ordering.

Thanks,

Dean

[Acer]

Cody put one of our Lunchboxes to work this fall on 100 taps. Would have been nice to get a little credit in the Maple News, but that's OK. Here is the link.
Word is we'll be selling a few in Randolph ;) Thanks Cody.

https://www.themaplenews.com/story/autumn-blend/21/

Dean

[Acer]

Offering the Lunchbox at show special price of $249 plus shipping for website orders until sometime Sunday.

If you are in VT you can get the show price at the Bellows Falls show Jan 30.

That will be it for discounting this season.

Thanks,

Dean

[Bricklayer]

Just got my lunchbox releaser up and running today on 55 taps. ive got 6 lines coming to a 6 way star running 40 psi air 1000' and it pumps 700' back to my tank no problem. I just have the pump line to the tank laying on the ground right now and it works great. im going to have help tomorrow so I will string it up. very impressed with it so far. im going to run a 1/2 main line next year would like to know if others have done this with the lunchbox. the sap inlet hole is only 1/4'' so will running 1/2'' mainline work?

[Acer]

Hi Brandon,
If it was me, I would go up to 25 taps (or more) per lateral and keep it simple, all 5/16".
Is there a reason you want mainline?
5/16 is easy to run(no wire) and droops are ok.
5/16 is super easy to chase vac leaks (mainline saddle leaks are harder to find and will KILL your vac).

That said, there are a few using even 3/4 mainline, and if they are having problems they haven't contacted me.
Friend of mine fills a 55gal barrel almost daily off a single 5/16 lateral 600' long on 25 trees.


Good luck.
Dean

[Bricklayer]

I am amazed by this piece of equipment. I've added about 25 more taps to it last couple days. My farthest tap is about 1500 feet from the lunchbox. I had the lunchbox running while I cut the drop in. I quickly dunked my line in warm water and popped the drop in. Looked in my thermos and all my water was gone. I don't have any vac gauges. Couldn't find any where local tat sold them. I get I'm pulling 20 hg no problem if not more. Running it at 40 psi. What effect does turning the air pressure up on the pump have?

[Acer]

Glad you are happy with it.
Turning up the pressure will give you more pump pressure, but typically not more vacuum.
You can fold the tubing over and crimp it while warming in your thermos. Hot water will last longer :)

[Bricklayer]

a mainline might work a little better in my bush. There is a lot of distance between my groups of sugars. And with multiple lines running that far it gets expensive real quick. And I've only been able to tap 1/4 of the trees available. I use my bush a lot in the spring and summer cutting firewood and having to navigate only 1 line in most areas is a lot easier then having multiple lines running every which way. Cleaner looking also. I've also noticed that some of my lines don't move at all during runs. They have to wait their turn because it's backed up right to the last tap. I think a mainline would give it somewhere to go and not sit in the line by the drop.

[Acer]

Mainline can be a good solution with long distance between groups, sounds like you are on it, usually it's not that far between 100 trees.
Do your best to keep it free draining (sloped) so you don't get an ice blockage, and don't run mainline through pine/hemlock, it will stay frozen all day.

Dean

[whity]

If we have a bush with no power. How large of a air tank would be needed to run this?

[Acer]

If we have a bush with no power. How large of a air tank would be needed to run this?

I am not sure running on an air tank is practical.
One customer is running dive tanks, hopefully he will chime in on how that's working out. Otherwise not recommended at this time.
Really long air lines can be practical, 1/4 mile for sure, maybe longer.
Dean

[claystroup]

Newbie question: I tap about 25 mature sugar maples at my brothers house that are big producers. Problem is the area they are in is full of so much underbrush that my bucket system is a pain to haul in and out. He has a pole barn about 200' from where the trees are generally located which has a fall in elevation of about 5-6' from where the maples are. I can run an air comp hose out from his barn as he has a 5hp 60 gallon tank unit so air is no problem. My question is, can I just lay 5/16" tubing on the ground and run it up to the trees or do you need the elevated steel cable to suspend the 5/16" tubing from? Thanks, Clay in Almont, MI

[Acer]

Newbie question: I tap about 25 mature sugar maples at my brothers house that are big producers. Problem is the area they are in is full of so much underbrush that my bucket system is a pain to haul in and out. He has a pole barn about 200' from where the trees are generally located which has a fall in elevation of about 5-6' from where the maples are. I can run an air comp hose out from his barn as he has a 5hp 60 gallon tank unit so air is no problem. My question is, can I just lay 5/16" tubing on the ground and run it up to the trees or do you need the elevated steel cable to suspend the 5/16" tubing from? Thanks, Clay in Almont, MI

Hi Clay,
It seems that laying it on the ground can work, I was worried about condensation forming and staying iced up but this hasnt been a problem so far. If the compressor is in a heated space, it may be more of an issue, don't know.
You should use an oil free compressor, or filter the shop air to remove all oil. Someday the diaphragm in the pump will let go and you don't want that in your syrup.

Lunchbox would be great for that bush, it can also pump uphill back to the barn if thats where you are boiling/hauling from.

[claystroup]

Hi Dean,

Couple of questions:
1) do you recommend 3/16" or 5/16" tubing for a 25 tap sugar bush?
2) what air pressure do you recommend the compressor run at?

Thanks,

Clay Stroup

[Acer]

Hi Dean,

Couple of questions:
1) do you recommend 3/16" or 5/16" tubing for a 25 tap sugar bush?
2) what air pressure do you recommend the compressor run at?

Thanks,

Clay Stroup

I would go 5/16.
For most applications 30psi is sufficient. Pumping uphill or long distances may require more psi.

[turnerburner]

Can I hook this up to my 3/16 lines without any issues or would I have to convert everything over to 5/16 tubing?

[Acer]

3/16 is totally fine, you just have to adapt to 5/16 to the Lunchbox fitting.

[maple maniac65]

Is a star fitting the best way to introduce three separate 5/16 lines to the lunch box releaser.

Any other suggestions

[Haynes Forest Products]

It ain't a releaser....................OOOOOOOPS sorry :cool:

[mspina14]

I set up a 1/2" manifold with three incoming 5/16 lines:

17960

Works good. I used a star fitting last year, but I like this set-up better.

I have about 80 taps on the Lunchbox.

Mark

[Acer]

Mark has certainly built a cool manifold.
The flow rate from 100 taps is not much and can easily be handled by a short length of 5/16 with the 5/16 lines from the bush Tee'd into it.
Basically like Mark did but 5/16 is ok too.

[lastwoodsman]

It will work with a mainline setup.
When ordering request the threaded adapter I think its 1/2npt. You can get that to plumb to the 3/4 mainline. Looks like you have a lot of taps. Leak control will be important or you will be mad at me.

Ha we were just discussing this yesterday-- I am going to try it,on a 3/4 in line with 60 or so taps

[Acer]

Hi Terry,
You can use mainline, but pump down times can get long if its too long, and forget it if you get a saddle leak.
Customers seem happiest on all 5/16 or 3/16 5/16 hybrid.
Dean

[Bricklayer]

I've had the lunchbox now for 3 seasons. And the star fitting right on the pump is the best method. I tried lots of different mainline setups and fittings. But went back to the star fitting. The vacuum created by the lunchbox pump is the same basically as the vacuum in 3/16 tubing. You want your lines full of sap all the time. Every time the pump cycles it pulls the liquid and creates vac at the tap hole. Adding somewhere for air to build up or a leak will make the pump cycle like crazy and you'll lose vacuum. Leaks are not good with this pump. You will know when you have one. And they aren't easy to find.

[maple maniac65]

I set up a 1/2" manifold with three incoming 5/16 lines:

17960

Works good. I used a star fitting last year, but I like this set-up better.

I have about 80 taps on the Lunchbox.

Mark

Thank you for the idea. I have a star fitting on it with 35 taps coming in on 3 lines. So far the most I have got is about 50 gallons a day. My compressor runs constantly though. It is a 6 gallon ryobi. Don't believe I have leaks as all three lines are brand new. All 5/16ths

[Acer]

Thank you for the idea. I have a star fitting on it with 35 taps coming in on 3 lines. So far the most I have got is about 50 gallons a day. My compressor runs constantly though. It is a 6 gallon ryobi. Don't believe I have leaks as all three lines are brand new. All 5/16ths

You have leaks
Compressor should run once every 5-6 minutes or less with 35 taps.
look for air bubbles in your lines, and follow them back to the source of the leak.
dean

[mspina14]

It took me about 2-3 days last year to find leaks. It was the first year I used the Lunchbox pump.

Here's some things that helped me:

1. Install a quick connect ball valve on each line about 3-4 feet from where they enter the pump. This will let you isolate each line to check if they are leaking.
2. Check carefully where the tubing is touching a tree. This is where squires like to chew.
3. Check to make sure you haven't tapped any trees that are hollow or partially hollow (like I did!)
4. If you still can't find the leak, isolate one line at a time. Run the Lunchbox and walk the line starting at the Lunchbox and crimp the tubing between every tap as you walk with a pair of pliers or vise-grips. If the Lunchbox stops, there are no leaks between where you crimped the line and the Lunchbox. Keep walking and crimping. When you crimp the line and the Lunchbox keeps running, the leak is between where you are and where you last crimped.

Mark

[Haynes Forest Products]

Why is it so hard to find the leaks with the air driven pump verses a Surflow pump?

[Bricklayer]

Why is it so hard to find the leaks with the air driven pump verses a Surflow pump?

I don't have any experience with a sureflow but what I do know is that with the lunchbox when you have 1 leak it effects the whole system. The whole system full of sap gets sucked out instantly and you have to wait for it all to fill back up again to find leak. I made all my connections at 6 way star quick fittings. I made pieces of 5/16 tubing with a quick connect on them and a plug. To test for leaks I close air to pump off with a ball valve installed at pump. Disconnect all 5/16 lines. Plug lines comming off the star fitting. And hook 1 up to 6 way star. Turn pump back on and see how it cycles. If it levels off to a normal slow moving column of sap. Then it's got no leaks. If it races though the 5/16 then there's a leak. I jus repeat this cycle for every line.
I tried with ball valves on all 5/16 lines but it works better with the plugs. I think it was because the smallest ball valve I could find was 1/2". So I reduced it to a barb fitting for 5/16 on both ends. The larger diameter of inside of valve was screwing with the flow. It would cause all the gases to get pulled over the sap and then not pull sap in very well. So I got rid of them. I've been thinking of going back to them and reconfigure it so it's facing upwards. But it's working the old way so why change it.

[Ghs57]

I'm running a small number of taps on my Lunchbox this year (25), but it's doing a great job. My usual tap count would be in the 50-75 range, but I lost access to some trees in this area.

Leaks have been an ongoing issue with the system. I have not used star fittings, but just "T" my lines into the main line. This year I switched to all all 3/16 lines, and I find that the system holds a vacuum much better. My return and air lines are still 5/16.

Next year I will probably move this to a more productive bush, if I have a place to power the compressor.

[Nogden3929]

I've had the lunchbox now for 3 seasons. And the star fitting right on the pump is the best method.

What star fitting did you use that mounted right to the lunchbox?

[maple maniac65]

What star fitting did you use that mounted right to the lunchbox?

Mine came with an adapter to 3/8 npt

[lastwoodsman]

Lunchbox releaser, I see Deans website is no longer available. Is he out of business???

[Chickenman]

Amazon and E bay say no longer available.

[steve J]

I had email him a month ago and he said it was no longer available.

[Mitchell tapper.]

I made one similar to the lunch box using a Flojet G57 model pump. It works quite well.

[bagpiper]

I bought a Lunchbox a few years ago. It is basically a small cooler (you can see it on YouTube) with a Flojet H58 10000 syrup pump hanging on a bracket. The pump is submersible and the cooler is filled with water which keeps the pump from freezing even when temps drop into the 20's at night. I have about 90 taps hooked up to the Lunchbox and can get 18 to 22 in.HG I bought another pump for around $80.00 on Ebay last season, bolted it to a stand and use it for pumping concentrate into my head tank. I just did an online search for the H58 series pumps and it appears that they are no longer making them. I would think that the newer model Flojet syrup pump would work. You can easily make a "Lunchbox" if you are somewhat handy.

[DougM]

Since Northwoods Sugarworks is no longer selling them, I put a unit together to go along with an original Lunchbox unit we bought last summer. I originally used a Coleman cooler, but it turns out the Igloo that Northwoods used has depressions on the inside of the lid that are really nice for lining up the fittings. Overall it was pretty easy to put together.

installationpartssupply.com has the pump, but the model number has changed. Their catalog number is G80-E022A, (my invoice says "Formerly G58"), they have it for $73.69. I'm sure other models would work, but these are designed for bag-in-box drinks, so there are a lot of places on the web that have them & the related parts & tubing. The John Guest fittings are available on Amazon, but I could only find them in bags of 10.

[linearb]

Since Northwoods Sugarworks is no longer selling them, I put a unit together to go along with an original Lunchbox unit we bought last summer. I originally used a Coleman cooler, but it turns out the Igloo that Northwoods used has depressions on the inside of the lid that are really nice for lining up the fittings. Overall it was pretty easy to put together.

installationpartssupply.com has the pump, but the model number has changed. Their catalog number is G80-E022A, (my invoice says "Formerly G58"), they have it for $73.69. I'm sure other models would work, but these are designed for bag-in-box drinks, so there are a lot of places on the web that have them & the related parts & tubing. The John Guest fittings are available on Amazon, but I could only find them in bags of 10.

Bumping an old thread because I saw one of these in action yesterday. I had been planning on getting a sap guzzler this year. Does anyone have end to end plans on how to put one of these together? Can these hook to mainline?

[DMF]

I don't have plans but they are pretty simple to build. I built 4 of them this year and I was very impressed. I think they could work on mainlines but they are only good for around 100 taps each. If you want to PM me your phone number I can text you pictures. I do have an excel sheet of what I bought and links to where I got them, but I think I'd probably need to update it as I have made some changes. A picture is worth a 1,000 words anyway.

What was really impressive to me was that I switched the "sap in" and "sap out" lines to pump my cleaning solution up through the lines. several of my lines are 1000' and have an 80' elevation change and the pump was able to pump solution to all of the top-most taps without an issue.

[DRoseum]

I believe the flojet pumps are compressed air operated, is that correct??

If you dont have that available in your location, you can also build shurflo or aquatec diaphram pump vacuum setups in a lunch box that operate on 12vdc. You can use battery with solar panels or electric to power these and get more taps per pump and probably a slighty higher vacuum. The shurflow 4008 is rated 3gpm and the aquatec 8852 is 0.7 gpm which should allow for hundreds of taps even on a really good day. If you figure 4 gpt (insanely good day) and pump only getting 1gpm that supports 360 taps (very conservative). I consistently saw 23 -25 inhg at the pump with these designs.

You can keep them heated using a very cheap 12v temp controller and a silicon strip heater or light bulb. I have built 2 of these and they are ultra compact and work fantastic.

Also used the pump to pump solution up the lines at the end of the season and worked great.

If you are going to buy a guzzler you could put it in a cooler and add the strip heater (on a heat sink) with a cheap temperature controller.

[DMF]

Correct with the comment on air operation. I ran 1000'+ feet of 5/15 sap line as straight as I could from the sugar shack to the bottom of the sugar bush for an air line. MUCH cheaper than solar panels, charge controllers, and deep cycle batteries. I looked at both options when I built my lunchboxes.