one more try on the releaser

[cjf12]

I just had my dairy releaser pump rebuilt and no difference. Still wont evacuate with vacuum. Only place it may be leaking could be the very top of my releaser can. I am thinking that should not make a difference because that wouldn't be much different than a small leak in the bush. What else am I missing? Tried it at 15" , nothing. One more shot and I'll have a nice stainless steel can and 1 h.p. 1 1/2" Dairy pump for sale. :confused:

[BreezyHill]

So send me a pic of the setup in a pm or pm me and I will send you my email.

There is something wrong an we just need to figure it out.

Ben

[BAP]

Is the pump motor turning in the right direction? Is the motor wired for the correct voltage? 110v or 220v? Is the check valve sealing properly and not leaking?

[cjf12]

Bap, Checked all those even rewired it to 115 thinking I messed up the 220 wiring to a 4 prong but all wiring is good, check valve seems great, new seals in pump. ????
Breezy, pics are on my last post I will get new ones later, gotta go get boys from wrestling. Changes are
1) pump rotated to push out bottom
2) Removed vacuum line balancer, seemed to fail as well with it as without.
3) removed spring check and put on flapper
4) rewired motor to 115 (had some doubt about which 2 were hot on generator)
5) new pump seals

It holds vac on its own for a minute or 2 then slowly releases until check valve lets loose.

[mellondome]

Are you using a dairy 1 1/2 " check valve that sits directly on the pump output? Or adding one after you change from tri-clamp to your output pipe? Having farmed most if my life... (milking as I type this) air is the only think that will prevent the pump from working @ 15" vac. ( or reversed motor direction but most dont have connections for reversal) we pump vertically 4' with outlet on top of pump and through a filter. 10415

[mellondome]

In the pic there is a checkvalve built into the tri-clover gasket on the pump output. If you slowly lose vac, probably your check valve is not sealing completely. Put your output vertical and put water on top of your check valve to seal it.

[BreezyHill]

Is there a possibility that the check gasket is in backwards? The ones I use have an X on the outlet side and will leak a little if not in right. And the unit doesn't pump well either.

What are you using for a probe?

[cjf12]

Check is a flapper, motor spinning right, no sensor yet, I wanted to wait till everything worked before I drilled more holes in my releaser can.
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Only thing I can tell for sure is that there is a small leak at the top of the can on hose going to sugar bush side. I figure this would equate to a leakage in the bush and shouldn't effect the releaser pump at all being where it is. Open to all thoughts, mine don't seem to matter anymore.

[BAP]

What is the check valve you are using? Is it the black item after the pump? Could you take a close picture of it please? Also, does the motor have a plate on it with the specs and wiring? If so, take a picture of that too.

[cjf12]

Here ya go. Make me an offer. haha

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Took the housing off just because.

[BreezyHill]

So to eliminate possible issues try this.
Take the top off of the releaser and fill with a hose and just before full turn on the pump. Looking to see the flow of the pump is good.

Then fill the releaser again with the motor off and clamp on the top. Turn the vac on and run it up to 20 or so and see how the pump runs

[BreezyHill]

Problem found. I have never seen a dairy pump like that before. The impeller is inclosed and really small. I will get pics of mine this evening

Ben

[cjf12]

I can tell you the pump will quit pumping around 8-10". Slows down considerably at 4-5" Water will pour out if I put it in the releaser since it is all downhill to pump but does pick up if I turn it on and put water in the releaser with no vac.
How much should these pumps do per min? Propellers seem to small to do much.

[BAP]

Have you tried reversing the direction the motor runs to see if it pumps? I see from the plate that it is a reversible motor.

[cjf12]

Yea, tried that just from frustration. Pumps REALLY lousy the wrong way.

[BreezyHill]

Look at the pic that shows the face of the impeller....note the lack of the opening in line with where the flow of sap comes from.

Now look at the pic that looks down the impeller to the drive shaft on the motor. Note how you can see the drive shaft.

Take of the impeller and flip it over so that the supply opening for the impeller is aligned with the supply of sap.

The way it is attached now the sap has to cross the flow from the impeller to get to the shaft and enter the impeller to be cast out.

Take a pic of the impeller when it is off. You can send me a pm and I will give you my cell# to send the pic to be sure this is what has happened.

Ben

[cjf12]

Ben, the prop has a solid disk on both sides. Two disks with pieces of metal welded between the two to make the prop. They are slanted to catch fluid but if flipped They will be slanted the wrong way I believe. I can reverse motor but then discharge would have to be up top. I will go and look at ASAP but will have to wait, company coming and snow removal tomorrow. With it being solid on both sides I don't think it will allow any better flow.

[wiam]

Does look like there is not much space for sap to go into center of impeller. Is it pushed on too far?

[maple flats]

I agree, the face should have a hole at the center for the sap to enter, then the spinning impeller shoots the sap out creating flow and pressure. Try seeing if you can pull that portion off the shaft so it leaves the open space. The shaft should not enter into the center area in the housing, it should only insert to the inner edge on the motor side. Then the inside remains open and the hold now filled on the end opposite the motor is open for sap in. Be carefull pulling it, the housing is likely thin.

[maple flats]

one more point or question. Is the check valve a sump pump check? If yes, is is both poor quality and not food grade. Try getting a lead free brass check valve or a PVC one that is designed for food contact. If it is not a sump pump valve, it sure looks like one.

[mellondome]

Any dairy pump we have ever used has just open paddles. Then the housing goes around it. From lookin at what you have, im amazed it pumps anything at all. The one in my pic is 1/2 hp.

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[mellondome]

Ben, the prop has a solid disk on both sides. Two disks with pieces of metal welded between the two to make the prop. They are slanted to catch fluid but if flipped They will be slanted the wrong way I believe. I can reverse motor but then discharge would have to be up top. I will go and look at ASAP but will have to wait, company coming and snow removal tomorrow. With it being solid on both sides I don't think it will allow any better flow.

In looking closer at the pump.. looks like the prop is on backwards. You want the blades to expel the liquid, not scoop it. And it should turn the direction that aligns with the output.. looking at the front if the pump CCW.

[BAP]

If you can, take the rest apart and post pictures of all the pieces so we can see and offer some advice. I agree with Maple Flats that the check valve maybe some of the problem especially if it is leaking vacuum. You can check that by starting up your vacuum and hold you hand over the end of the discharge pipe and see if the check valve is leaking vacuum, you should feel it on your hand.

[BreezyHill]

What you have is how a shop vac is designed but with an opening in the center to allow air in to the prop. I am fairly confident the back side should have at least a small opening around the shaft. If not then this will not work on sap at high vac. So a different prop will be needed.

What is the shaft size and diameter and depth of the housing.

Ben