Dealing with Chemicals

[Dennis H.]

Ok we need chemicals to clean and maintain our RO's, sodium hydroxide, muriatic acid, critic acid, etc.

How does everyone deal with having those chemicals around the sugarhouse?
How do you all store them? Do you have a special place that you put them?
Do you have the MSDS sheets for the chemicals that you have on hand, if you do are you doing it because you think it is right or are you required to?
Do you use all the proper safety gear when using them?


Now the next big question, I just ran into this today. How do you dispose of the waste wash or acid wash water?

I never thought about what the best way to get rid of water that has a high ph or for that matter liquid with a low ph.
I gathered that when I am done with giving the RO a was with RO soap, in my case sodium hydroxide, that I should add an acid to neutralize the liquid.
I will be using hydrochloric acid for my acid wash so I would have to add some sodium hydroxide to neutralize the solution.

SO how do you all deal with this?

[wiam]

I have heard sodium bicarbonate will neutralize either one.

[BreezyHill]

Dennis Great Question! Having been an EMT many moons ago, for safety sake and treatment in the event of an issue/injury the MSDS sheets should be on hand.
For our operation we have to have the MSDS sheets, and list of chemical on hand & suppliers contact info, record of our exterminator visits with all products used, etc...but we have a commercial feed mill on the farm and are DHS registered facility.

I am not saying that it is over the top to require all this but it is, what it is. We aint in Kansas anymore. There are people out there that are just looking for a way to hurt people.

You should have an idea on how and with what you should approach a spill of any of these chemicals in the even of a mishap.

Dilution is the solution is an old standard and water is the universal solvent.

Sodium Bicarbonate is a great acid neutralizer an is available at most any dairy feed store at a price that will surprise you. Cheap! Don't get S carb...not as good.

I would suggest reading your product labels as all your questions should be answered on the label as to how to neutralize these products and proper procedure for elimination of waste products and containers.

[Dennis H.]

I have in hand now the MSDS sheets for the chemicals that I have, from the place where I purchased the chemicals, You are correct BreezyHill, there is all the info that I would need to know about handling them on each sheet.


It is funny that you mentioned sodium bicarbonate, I was just doing a little research on it for just this purpose and found a place that says that sodium bicarbonate reacts violently with acids in an exothermic reaction. Sodium bicarbonate is not recommended for the clean up of acid spills, as the heat produced increases the reactivity of the acid. The large amount of carbon dioxide produced greatly increases the area of the spill.

I am by no means afraid to use these chemicals but I want to be well informed ahead of time so that I can use them properly and store them safely.
I now have to find a good way to store them. I want them up out of the way so my daughter doesn't get into them but also apparently in a good ventilated cool place.
I don't think an old milk crate next to the RO is going to cut it in this case.

[wishlist]

From the for what it's worth department. .....

There are no longer " msds ". The new name is SDS ( safety data sheets) , this comes for the Global Harmonized System which makes the info more standardized throughout the world. Believe it or not this is actually a good thing. Much more easier to find info on those sheets especially in an emergency as Breezy would probably agree with.

[BreezyHill]

Denis,

An easy experiment to show how bicarb and an acid react. take a non glass bottle outside with a small amount of vinegar in it. Take a teaspoon of Bicarb and drop into the bottle and watch the reaction from a safe distance. In lab we used a pyrec container and a cork in the top. all were in safety glasses of course and the cork when flying.

In a tight or sealed environment the reaction can and will spread the spill rapidly, and in a spill on the floor site the foaming of the reaction will spread the spill.

Dairy family with young kids, Mom nurse, dad farmer full time. Young son is in the milk house and spots a soda bottle while with dad in the milking parlor and takes a swig. Label was off the bottle for safety since the product in the bottle was milker acid. Son was rushed by mom to the ER and he is a father himself today with no major side affects.

So it is very important that chemicals are stored in their original containers out of the reach , young and old of unknowing people.

Common Sense is not so common anymore so we have to act as if everyone has one of Bill Engvils "signs" on.

A container as simple as a plastic storage bin with a sealable cover works great. With young kids...I raised three boys, a locked container means something fun is inside. Show them what is in it and explain that it can hurt you so I keep it where you will be safe. If you ever want to see it tell me and I will show you so it cant hurt you.

If you have the Sheets in a 3 ring binder in page protectors stored in the sugarhouse you will likely never need to use them in an emergency.

Safety is No Accident...it has to be practiced.

Ben

[DrTimPerkins]

I suggest reading the following two publications. The first deals with chemical safety in maple operations in general. The second is more specific to RO wash water neutralization, a procedure that all producers SHOULD follow, but are required to be followed in NY and VT.

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/PMRCChemicalSafety.pdf

http://vermontmaple.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Procedures-for-neutralizing-maple-wash-water.pdf

[wiam]

I suggest reading the following two publications. The first deals with chemical safety in maple operations in general. The second is more specific to RO wash water neutralization, a procedure that all producers SHOULD follow, but are required to be followed in NY and VT.

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/PMRCChemicalSafety.pdf

http://vermontmaple.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Procedures-for-neutralizing-maple-wash-water.pdf

Wouldn't I be better off to have a separate tank to neutralize in so there would be no risk of putting bicarb in membrane?

[DrTimPerkins]

Wouldn't I be better off to have a separate tank to neutralize in so there would be no risk of putting bicarb in membrane?

How you choose to accomplish neutralization is up to you, but that would be a good approach.

[Dennis H.]

Now we are talking, this is some good information.
Thanks.

[Dennis H.]

Read thru both articles that Dr. Tim put up and there is some very good info in them.

After reading them I think I may try to setup a way to divert the waste wash water into a small holding tank to be neutralized then drained.
That way I will not be putting sodium bicarbonate into my RO wash tank and then needing to rinse that out after each use.

Question, is there a difference between different kinds of sodium bicarbonate(baking soda)?
I can get bulk sodium bicarbonate from the same place that I got my sodium hydroxide but I can find baking soda at a local restaurant supply store for a lot less.