Draw off- which end?

[JET]

I've noticed that some 2 pan units ( 1 being the sap & the front being the syrup ) pan have different locations for draw-offs. Some are in the front closest to the arch doors & then some are where the 2 pans come together. Now i'm still a newbe but it seems that syrup becomes heavy & you'd want it to flow towards the front draw-off, not where the 2 pans come together & the sap mixes w/ the soon to be syrup. Maybe I'm missing somthing.
Jet

[Sugarmaker]

Jet,
Depending on how the pans have partitions in them usually dictates where the syrup will be during its final stages. Usually the syrup travels the furthest route to the drain. All kinds of different pan systems out there old and new.
Hope this helps,
Sugarmaker

[Fred Henderson]

If the syrup pan has 4 partitions it will draw where the 2 pans come together. Beleive me that is the best place, away from the arch doors.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

I'm not saying reverse flow doesn't work because they have been used for YEARS. BUT cross flow pans get a much smoother flow of liquid becasue you don't make syrup in the middle portions. Reverse flow pans tend to make syrup in the middle of the pans which then will burn or you have to physically move the liquid through the portions, but on cross flow pans the sweeter liquid keeps getting pushed to the front and is a smooth flow on it's own.

Personal opinion, but cross flow is all I'll ever own.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Ryan,

I understand where you are coming from but I think part of the problem of making syrup in the center of the pan is having the majority of the fire in the center of the pan and not having equal fire on the outsides of the pan especially on the syrup side. :?

I don't want to have to worry about changing pans, but I guess it's a personal preference. :)

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

You're probably right about the fire being in the middle. I'm just going by what I've heard from some other people that have used reverse flow.

Also about changing the pans, I bought a 3rd pan so I could always have one soaking/washing while I was boiling.

It works great for me and I'm SURE there are other things that other people have good luck with. Personal preference is the key!

[Fred Henderson]

Then why in Bascom's new catalog does it say cross flow is good for hobby producers wwith 25 to 100 taps?

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

Good question. I was just talking about the pans in general, not nessecarily how many taps determine which pans you have. What style do the 100,000+ tap operations use in Canada? (I don't know...that's why I'm asking)

[Fred Henderson]

I think that the pan is a personal preference. As for 100k plus tap operation, I would love to see that in full swing. What I am making would seem so trivial that it would probably cause me to quit. :D

[802maple]

Switching the pans is a whole lot less of a deal than people might think. If you have everything ready you can change the pans in a 2 or 3 minutes. I know Leader says that you will take a couple hours to do this between letting the fire down and than getting the fire going again, which is a bunch of bull. I have done it several times without even missing a stroke on firing the evaporator when we were wood fired. You just have to be ready with a system that works for you and do it. Of course it is much easier now that we are oilfired. As long as you don't open the doors the draft will take most of the heat right out thru the evaporator and as Ryan said you then can get rid of the niter on the pan by cleaning instead of just reversing back across the pan and letting stick down on the otherside.

[brookledge]

When you guys that have cross flow pans switch pans how do you do it if your by your self. Do you have cable systems that can do the lifting for you or do you need more than one person? And if you need to buy an extra pan, that is tieing up extra $ when the sap will remove the nitre all by itself when you reverse flow.
I could see lifting off pans if they are a couple of feet wide but when you get into wider arches it seams like it would reqiure more than one person.
Keith

[JET]

Still confused, Here's my setup, 3x10 smallbros arch, drop flue sap pan & 4 divider syrup pan. With the arch dead level & where the 2 pans meet there is a slight pitch towards each other ( 1/8-1/4 ) this is also where the draw off valves are-reverse flow.These pans were Amish made & not sure if there made that way for a reason, thus my concerns W/ the soon to be syrup mixing with the sap.
Jet

[Dave Y]

some one please correct if I am wrong! Jet. On a reverse flow pan you have two draw offs. Therefore you just change sides not pans. the hot sap comes into the syrup pan on the oppisite side the you would draw off .

Hope this doen't confuse you more

[JET]

Dave Y, that 's correct as I know it, I guess I'm thinking that the valves should be the farthest away & the pans pitched towards the front so syrup flows downhill. Where my valves are ( pans meet ) how is sap going to push soon to be syrup up the small pitch through the dividers to the opposite side for draw off?
Jet

[royalmaple]

Your pans should be dead level.

The method that glen goodrich preaches is to draw off an extra pail about equal to your sweetest compartment at the end of the night. So say 3quarts or 1 gallon in our case. Then let the pan settle overnight, when you fire up the next day and everything is going. Keep your flue pan valve shut off till the front pan gets boiling and then slowly add your sweet from the night before to the reversed side nearest the draw off. Kinda like jump starting it with say 60% sap to help get the gradient going.

Then once that front pan is going well again, let your sap flow in from the flue pan to keep it going.

Otherwise it can take a while to get your first draw the next time you boil, but it will still happen just have to watch the pans and see where you are making syrup.

Of course even heat is helpful.

Maybe someone else can expand on this but that is pretty much the picture.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Fred,

What Bascom means about crossflow pans for hobby producers with 25 to 100 taps is used cross flow pans like a 24 x 71 pan that will make a good flat pan that will boil 12 to 15 gph on a homemade arch, etc. :wink:

Get the picture! :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I do like the crossflow pan system in having a clean pan all the time. I hope to in time run across a good used 2x3 welded Leader front pan that I can swap out 2 or 3 times during the season to keep a clean and spare one on hand. :) I am sure both systems have their advantage but I don't have help to change pans and it would be a headache for me. I can reverse flow in 30 seconds and never slow down. :D

[802maple]

We have a 5 foot wide evaporator and I handle the pans easily by myself although if there is a extra hand there I won't refuse it. The key is to plug between the pans and take out as much syrup as you feel safe with and put it in the other pan that you are going to put back on, then disconnect the pan, take it off, throw the new pan on, reconnect and put the rest of the sweet from the first pan in the new pan and you are boiling again. There won't be any syrup in the middle, it will be right where it is supposed to be and you will have a clean pan. I have no cables or any other device to assist me. Believe me it took me longer to type this than it would to change the pans.

I used reverse flow for the first twenty years that I made syrup and when you change sides it only takes the niter off one side and sticks it back on the other side, plus having to fight with syrup being in the middle. I might make 40 to 50 gallons on my reverse flow on a good day before I would switch over, but with the cross flow pans I can't remember the last time I had to switch pans when I made less than 200 gallons.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

Cross flow syrup pans are relatively light when they're drained. I can move mine EASY(only 2.5'x15"). But I've watched 802 move theirs and it really isn't a whole lot different, just a bit longer. And being able to take the pans off and swap 'em, it is a lot easier to keep them cleaner. soaking them in permeate or water off of a pre-heater hood works the best because that type of water attracts minerals!

[Fred Henderson]

Brandon, Thanks for explaining that. It was puzzling to think that any company would put down an equipment manufacture. :D

[brookledge]

Jet
The pans should be level. As for the movement through the pans as the evaporation takes place the level will always be the same. so if you have 1.5" at the beginning you will have 1.5" at the end. The only thing that differ a little is when you draw off. If you draw off with a constant flow (trickle) then the level should always be the same. If you open the valve all the way and draw off batches then the level will drop temporarily but the float should quickly compensate and equal it off.
As for your set up, (I'm not sure what type your drop flue is) normally the sap enters the flue pan right next to the side you draw off. Then when you reverse your flow the sap will come in on the other side and you will draw offf on the other side. The side you draw off on needs to have a plug in between the flue pan and the syrup pan so that the fresh sap doesn't mix with the syrup. Also when you switch sides you need to move the plug from one side to the other.
Not sure if that helps you or not.
Keith

[Fred Henderson]

Keith, Well it sure did help me :roll: :D Just a little joking and that is the way I was taught.