Rebuild of an old Leadr 2X6. Advice is welcome!

[Tidajo]

I may be in over my head. Maybe not. But after review this wonderful site and all the advice that is given, I think I'm in the right spot to get some help to get through this.
Syrup virgin last year, and with ten taps made a gallon and a half on the turkey fryer. Yes, propane costs came out to $7 per pint, and that process laboriously slow. But the seed was planted, and as I stared at the boil new plans were spinning in my head for next year. I would guess everyone on this site can relate.
As a hobbyist, I was fine with the 55 gallon drum design, but I happened to have a 275 gallon I wasn't using. So I made plans to use that (and of course 10 more taps), already bigger than what I wanted.
But the problem (or solution, depending how you look at it), is that before I put a torch to the tank I found an old 2X6 Leader evaporator on Craigslist, including a drop flue and the front pan. I couldn't say no. Now I've gone from wanting to make a half gallon on Saturday morning, to maybe having to tap another 20-30 trees to justify starting the fire in this!

The arch is rough. Needs a complete reskin. I am not a metal kinda guy, although handy. I am hoping to do this without the use of a welder is possible.
I have a month to get this done. As I make my list for the sheet metal needs, I can't figure out exactly how that firebox and flue ramp should go. Looks like maybe there is another support/frame missing? I can't find pictures of this style that show the back/underside of the firebox/flue.

Maybe I should just use the pans in the 275 gallon tank? Can that work?

Please look at the pics, and offer any advice that you can. I need to focus on the arch first, then attack the pans. I have no clue what I have, whether this a good deal, or a waste of my time. Economics are certainly a factor. Especially if this is the only year I'm going to do this. No plans on selling syrup.
Thanks!
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[Tidajo]

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[Tidajo]

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[optionguru]

You are missing a bunch of frame structure on the arch. There should be a couple of uprights in the rear of the tall section and then some upward angled frame work from front to back to support the ramp area. Doesn't look like the pans are stainless, what are they made of?

Welcome to the site and the addiction.

[Clinkis]

I think you might have your hands full trying to revive the evaporator. It would be easier to build a new arch then to try and fix that one. Pans are not stainless. For the time, effort and money required I think you would be way farther ahead to look for a used hobby evaporator. Interesting piece if history but I think it belongs is a museum and not a sugar house.

[Tidajo]

Thanks for the quick replies. First responses not promising! LOL. :cry:


Doesn't look like the pans are stainless, what are they made of?

Welcome to the site and the addiction.

How can I tell what they're made of? Googling the numbers on the pan was fruitless. By process of elimination I would guess "English tin"?

[morningstarfarm]

Those are English tin pans...pretty easy to work with...did a complete rebuild on my first arch just like that one...pans are prone to pinholes but they solder pretty easily...made a lot of good syrup on that rig...sometimes I wish I still had it lol...FYI those pans are lead soldered, but the nitre is probably so thick that it won't matter..

[maplecherry]

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here's some pics of a similar set up. 275 oil tank, drill, sawzall, bolts self tapping screws, scrap angle, barrel door, ceramic blanket, old bricks, 4-5 buckets of sand, 1/4" steel plate, 8" stove pipe - no welder, 1 weekend. I had a blower also - you'll want more trees. :D

[wnybassman]

That would make a great conversation piece out in front of the sugar shack. lol

Good luck on whichever route you take.

[jmayerl]

The arch is a easy fix. I rebuilt one that looked just like it 5 years Ago. Looks like you have every thing you really need. Get a sheet of 22 or 20 gauge galv sheet from a HVAC shop and some 3/4 black pipe for rear supports. You will need a few packs of pop rivits, tin shears, hand bender and your good to go. Throw those pans away! You do not want to feed syrup made in them to your children. Buy a flat 2x6 for this year and you can upgrade to a flue pan when neccisary.

[jmayerl]

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This is how mine started. It was in no better shape than yours and after a weekend of work we had it working great.

[PACMAN]

Tidajo, I have a 2 by 8 that is the same thing. You will have to replace all the sheet metal,but the cast iron and the rails look good. Use pop rivets to attach the sheet metal. The arch can be fixed, but I would be more concerned on what shape the pans are in? Are they pitted,do they leak? Start cleaning them and see what you have before you get to far into the arch rebuild. hope this helps,and remember. Have fun.

[Mark-NH]

I ran a 2.5' x 8' with the same style pans for years. If the pans do not have a bunch of pin holes you have something to work with and something you can have a lot of fun with.

Fill them with water to see what you have before moving forward. If the pans hold water, the arch can be repaired relatively easily. Have fun

[Tidajo]

Thanks for the advice everyone!
I've come up with a plan that I haven't seen before. It includes framing out the sheet metal (parallel to the top rail, down the ramp, etc)with slotted angle iron so that all I have to do is rivet in the sheet metal like it is in the top rails.
10306
I'll try a local scarp yard for the sheet metal. This design will give me the flexibility to put in different gauge steel, and I should be able to cut the sheet metal and angle iron with a grinder. At least that's the plan.
Not sure how to test the pans yet. Temp was about 15 degrees today, and if I bring them inside I will be sleeping outside!

[adk1]

I have the same Size leader arch. It my pans are ss. The front of that arch looks like it's in good condition. I would be interested in purchasing the doors from u if interested. I purchased my entire arch and pans for 2000

[jmayerl]

10307
Thanks for the advice everyone!
I've come up with a plan that I haven't seen before. It includes framing out the sheet metal (parallel to the top rail, down the ramp, etc)with slotted angle iron so that all I have to do is rivet in the sheet metal like it is in the top rails.
10306
I'll try a local scarp yard for the sheet metal. This design will give me the flexibility to put in different gauge steel, and I should be able to cut the sheet metal and angle iron with a grinder. At least that's the plan.
Not sure how to test the pans yet. Temp was about 15 degrees today, and if I bring them inside I will be sleeping outside!

So rather than waste money reinventing the wheel, the way that it was originally built was by having the sides about 1.5" longer than needed. then that 1.5" is bent over at a 90 degree angle to give you a flange to pop rivet to. I did find some more pictures that show 22 gauge and the process but only from the inside. 22 gauge is about $30 for a 4x10 sheet and can be cut with a hand snips. again only about $50 in materials, and $50 in tools(maybe can be borrowed from a hvac buddy) and your golden. save that money for SS pan, for gods sake don't make a food product with those crappy/ lead filled pans!

[adk1]

I agree the arch can be saved, the front looks like it's in decent shape really

[fisheatingbagel]

Tidajo,
You could also skin it with Hardie backer board. I've used this on 2 arches, and so far it's worked out okay. The purpose of the skin is to just hold the insulation and bricks in place. Hardie backer can withstand a lot of heat, a lot more than you'll get from an insulated and bricked firebox.

[Tidajo]

Thanks for the direction!

I was going by the Box Stores prices of steel. JMayerl, thanks for steering me back in the right direction. Called HVAC supply. That steel is 20% of what The Depot would charge.
So I'll just replace as it was original done. Throw in a couple of bands for support where may be needed. Or at least I think they were.
I think that hand bender will be a lot easier than hammering over a 4 X 4!
Although I kinda was looking forward to making an Erector Set! lol.
I'll do that this weekend, see how the blocks can fit, and go from there.

I'll posts some pics when done, and start a new thread on those English tin pans when the time comes. Expected to be 40 degrees on Sunday, so maybe I can pour some water in them then.

[Tidajo]

I still couldn't find pics of the inside or back of the firebox.
Not sure how this original went. The existing metal looks like a ramp went down to the bottom of the firebox, but not sure if that's how it went, or that's how it bent went it fell apart.

Basically, the question is: A or B?

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[NH Maplemaker]

Fire box was built like a box. On the top of the box front and rear there was angle iron facing in towards the fire box to hold up your grates! then your Ramp is built up from there towards back of arch! We had and old leader 4X12 that we rebuilt many years ago that looked just like yours only a lot larger! Hope this helps!

[COMSTOCK MAPLES]

I'm thinking its design B. Looks like a good project. It's a nice template to start with. Good luck to you.

[morningstarfarm]

A or b...hmmm I have had both...if your flu pan is raised then I would go with b...if it's a drop flu then I would go with a and have the flus end just at the corner...it will keep you from mashing your flues with a chunk of wood...learned that one the hard way...with auf blower it will still boil just fine...good luck

[Tidajo]

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It looks like this disappeared from the thread, so I reposted.

[Sugarmaker]

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It looks like this disappeared from the thread, so I reposted.

The arch was designed like in your sketch "B".
This is a large project! If you can crank this out in a weekend, I have some other projects for you:) To give you perspective I rebuilt a 3 x 10 in similar condition 16 years ago. It took me the better part of a summer in warm temps and in a garage. Also agree that those pans may or may not hold water. They are quite rusty.
If you dont think your going to make much syrup, I would be inclined for you to back off this arch project and boil as you did last year.
The barrel arch is a good sized project in its self.
What size pans do you have for a barrel arch if you were to go that route?
Not trying to be to negative here.
Regards,
Chris

[Tidajo]

Started to tackle this monster Friday, and made some progress.
While taking it apart, I realized that I will never figure out how what where overlap stuff that the original had. So I started from scratch. One problem is I'm 30 minutes from hardware store, so every time I needed something it took an hour. Factor in a Saturday funeral and Sunday's ice storm, well you get the picture.

I skinned it out, but I didn't take into account the rivets extending inside the firebox. I assume they'll get in the way with the bricking (no insulation).
But I guess that doesn't matter, because some of the rivets popped. I guess I'll just use some bolts/nuts in those spots.
It doesn't have to be pretty!

next question: The original had a full skin, and inside was a one piece pan (identical gauge, see pic) that extended from the back of the arch down the ramp.
Is that important that it is like that, or can I get away with the one layer of 24 gauge that I have done already.
And I filled the pans, and each one has one small drip from old repair. 1038410385103861038710388
Advice on the arch?
(I'm sure my pans will be in another thread when I get to them next)

[COMSTOCK MAPLES]

Looks awesome. Your moving right along. Cool to see people rebuild stuff not just give in and buy new. That's what old timers had to do, but today's world is so throw out happy with scraping everything. Keep us posted till it's boiling. Thanks

[COMSTOCK MAPLES]

I forgot to ask where about in Hudson valley are you located? Maybe get to see it roll sometime.

[sweetmoomoo]

arch is looking good, i was looking at that arch on craigslist myself and knew that it could be rebuilt. cant wait to see it fired up.

[Sugarmaker]

Well I agree that the arch looks very good. Keep at it and you will have a evaporator if your not careful! Don't forget that you will need something to support the brick and the grates starting just below the level of the door. Maybe a angle iron frame setting it there.
Regards,
Chris

[jmayerl]

Told ya, nothing too it! Lookin good!

[n8hutch]

If you can afford it & or access It.I would insulate that arch. You won't regret it. It looks great , I can't tell you how many old arches I see off to the side of old sugar houses & what not and I think too bad someone wouldn't reuse/rebuild that. Your actually doing it. Thats pretty cool in my book.

[flhr10]

Very nice! Keep up the good work. Arch board and brick next. It's not hard and you'll be glad you did it.

[Tidajo]

I forgot to ask where about in Hudson valley are you located? Maybe get to see it roll sometime.
Quite a bit south of you, in Ulster County. Where the Hudson is a mile wide, not a hundred yards. Different kinda valley!


arch is looking good, i was looking at that arch on craigslist myself and knew that it could be rebuilt. cant wait to see it fired up. We settled on a price that was half of his asking. Time will tell if I got a deal or not.


Well I agree that the arch looks very good. Keep at it and you will have a evaporator if your not careful! Don't forget that you will need something to support the brick and the grates starting just below the level of the door. Maybe a angle iron frame setting it there.
Regards,
Chris No idea what I'm doing for the grate yet. Block is frozen in 2" of ice, so I'll worry about that when the time comes. thanks for the reminder about the support. didn't think about that.


Told ya, nothing too it! Lookin good! Thanks. Not worrying about aesthetics. Just moving forward.


If you can afford it & or access It.I would insulate that arch. You won't regret it. It looks great , I can't tell you how many old arches I see off to the side of old sugar houses & what not and I think too bad someone wouldn't reuse/rebuild that. Your actually doing it. Thats pretty cool in my book.
I wasn't going to insulate, as I have no idea if I will be doing this again. I was a frustrated turkey fryer guy last year, making the jump that the average obsessive takes three or fourth year, so I don't know if I'll enjoy it. But if I don't do it now, I'll regret it.
I told the wife I would do this for under $500 total, so I'm backyardin' it the fun way. Part of the challenge!
That insulation will put me over. But what they hay. I just won't tell her....lol.