road side sugarbush

[PATheron]

Anybody really go after it and put a bunch of gravity taps along the road all over and pick it up. What I was kind of wondering is how do you pay the people if there isn't many taps in each spot but basicly just like to hear about peoples experiences doing it and if it really pays off for them. I have some places around where you could put a real long line and tap tons of taps on one line along the road but lots of times there small trees that come in thick. They will be removed some time anyway but I don't think I could do it because it might turn some people off. If you could put little portable vacuum rigs on some of them I bet u could really get some sap. Theron

[bix]

I have 8 stops on my way home for a total of 500 taps I pay in syrup and its all gravity run

[SeanD]

Sugaring in a rural suburb, this is the only way I can expand. Another factor for you to consider are property lines. Without fail the nicest bushes are borders for properties and 2,3,4 owners might be involved. I do my homework with maps before I knock on doors. Many times, the owners don't really know their property lines and live by physical boundaries, so the trees may visually belong to one guy, but mostly belong to another. That happens a lot.

I have to do it all on tubing from this point forward. As the number of stops and pick ups increase so does my time/tap and that's my biggest factor with the job and family, etc.

Anyway, to pay, I work down from 1 gallon/100 taps, so 1 quart/25 taps, 1 pint/12-13 taps and so on. If they deliver, I double their end. When the tap count gets really small I have to educate people so their expectations aren't out of whack with what I can do. Because of where I live, some people don't understand that I won't get gallons and gallons from their handful of taps. Usually, they are just happy to be part of the process and they think it's neat.

So, I try to look for sugar bushes that lie mostly on one property when possible. There's a large bush in town that I need about 4-5 people to buy in and I just about have it, but the key property that would give me access and the most taps (who was most excited about it) pulled out because they are trying to sell the place and don't want anything to complicate the sale. It's okay, the trees aren't going anywhere - unless they put in another subdivision!

Good luck,
Sean

[markcasper]

Anyway, to pay, I work down from 1 gallon/100 taps, so 1 quart/25 taps, 1 pint/12-13 taps and so on. If they deliver, I double their end. When the tap count gets really small I have to educate people so their expectations aren't out of whack with what I can do.
SeanSo with a 100 tap bush, you should get a minimum of 25 gallons of syrup without vacuum. So what I am reading.....since you will double their end if the person delivers the sap for the season off of 100 taps, they will only get 2 gallons of syrup? and you will get 23 gallons?

[SeanD]

Well, honestly it's more theory than practice. I got the original 100 taps/gal ratio from people here. I've used that for a few years. Then last year I had two people with single trees in their yards approach me about tapping their trees. I explained how it all works and that it would be a lot of effort for me to travel across town every day for one bucket. In both cases they wanted to participate any way they could and would have done it for nothing in return and they were willing to bring the sap over every day. They were super excited and I felt bad, so I agreed, but I didn't want to take it for free. I can't get into measuring gallons and sugar content for those small amounts every day, so I came up with the doubling idea.

I took that idea and applied it to someone else who had ten of my taps and were willing to deliver. I thought I was being fair. Now I'm guessing from your comment that I'm not. What do you think? Do you have nay situations like this? What do you recommend?

Sean

[n8hutch]

I personally tend to lean on the generous side, I generally give people a quart per 10 taps. I don't have many taps on my own land, maybe 75. So I try to make sure the people who allow me to use their land & or Trees are very Happy. W/O them I would be up s_____ creek w/o a paddle.

[markcasper]

Well, honestly it's more theory than practice. I got the original 100 taps/gal ratio from people here. I've used that for a few years. Then last year I had two people with single trees in their yards approach me about tapping their trees. I explained how it all works and that it would be a lot of effort for me to travel across town every day for one bucket. In both cases they wanted to participate any way they could and would have done it for nothing in return and they were willing to bring the sap over every day. They were super excited and I felt bad, so I agreed, but I didn't want to take it for free. I can't get into measuring gallons and sugar content for those small amounts every day, so I came up with the doubling idea.

I took that idea and applied it to someone else who had ten of my taps and were willing to deliver. I thought I was being fair. Now I'm guessing from your comment that I'm not. What do you think? Do you have nay situations like this? What do you recommend?

Sean In my opinion I would not feel right only giving them 1 gallon per 100 taps and 2 gallons of syrup if they bring you the sap. In my operation they get the option of 50% of the syrup back, or 50% of the value based on the current price of bulk syrup. In essence they would be getting 12 1/2 gallons of syrup back from 100 taps if it was delivered sap to your sugarhouse, while assuming 25 gallons of production from the 100 taps. I have a landowner over the fence where I strung 40 extra tubing taps and I offered $1.50 per tap. They want syrup....so I gave them as much syrup as $1.50 X 40 taps divided by $X.XX per pound of syrup, plus what the containers cost. I do not charge them what I retail syrup for, because to me that would not be fair. I throw in my time and bottling cost because it usually is insignificant since I'm bottling anyway. Now this is vacuum tubing and am glad to snatch the neighboring taps. With your situation of stopping by for 10 taps each, yes it would be practically not worth the time. But if they are bringing you more than a few gallons of sap, I'd probably be paying them some too. Just my opinion. Whatever works for you.

[Hop Kiln Road]

I am a sharecropper and pay 15% of the annual crop to my landowners. To quote the venerable Bruce Bascom, "There is more to the maple industry than people realize." So maple producers have to battle the an irony of the American technology culture, folks hurrying to get cheap table syrup fast food but wanting vistas of scenic buckets along the roads. And the numbers are astounding: estimated table syrup market, $18 billion, versus 10 million gal global annual maple production @ $50/gal = $500 million or about 3%.

[maple flats]

My only current leases are both written 10 yr. leases and the price I pd. last year was $.77. When the lease was made, the figure was an even amount, but since then, by lease terms, has gone up as determined by the Social Security inflation rate (or deflation if that occurs), rounded to the nearest whole cent. They both get that in syrup for as much as they want (calculated at my gal. retail price regardless of the jug size they want) and then the rest is paid by check.

[SeanD]

In my opinion I would not feel right only giving them 1 gallon per 100 taps and 2 gallons of syrup if they bring you the sap. In my operation they get the option of 50% of the syrup back, or 50% of the value based on the current price of bulk syrup. In essence they would be getting 12 1/2 gallons of syrup back from 100 taps if it was delivered sap to your sugarhouse, while assuming 25 gallons of production from the 100 taps. I have a landowner over the fence where I strung 40 extra tubing taps and I offered $1.50 per tap. They want syrup....so I gave them as much syrup as $1.50 X 40 taps divided by $X.XX per pound of syrup, plus what the containers cost. I do not charge them what I retail syrup for, because to me that would not be fair. I throw in my time and bottling cost because it usually is insignificant since I'm bottling anyway. Now this is vacuum tubing and am glad to snatch the neighboring taps. With your situation of stopping by for 10 taps each, yes it would be practically not worth the time. But if they are bringing you more than a few gallons of sap, I'd probably be paying them some too. Just my opinion. Whatever works for you.

Mark, thanks for the input. I put a ton of time into figuring out what was the right thing to do, so I feel really bad if I've been off. I landed on the gal/100 taps from this forum. It's really the only way I can get industry practice here in the flat lands. I looked at syrup compensation and I also tried to get a sense of what money people paid per tap. I don't have anything near 100 taps out anywhere, so I simplified it to 1 qt/25 taps. I double-checked that against what that would be per tap and came up with $.80. In reality, nothing split evenly on people's property to amounts of syrup, so I round up to the next container size, so it's usually closer to $1.00/tap. I thought that put me right in the middle of other people's $/tap. I offer the land owners the money or the syrup and they always choose the syrup.

Seeing how you calculated it, I see where I'm off. I used my retail price for a quart for the 25 taps and I didn't work the cost of syrup per pound. I'm going to get back to this and figure it out. I feel crappy, but it will be an easy fix. I'm only a few years into using other people's property, so I can easily make it up to them this year and do things better moving forward. I especially want to get it right, because each year I have more and more people who want me to put a (single) bucket in their yard and they are willing to bring it over. I've declined offers because it seems like a headache for all the expected reasons, but I'm more open to it if I have an easy-to-remember, fair way to pay them back.

Thanks again,
Sean

[handtapper]

I tap roadside trees and pay 1qt per 25 taps. I do all the work from tap to cap. All my landowners are happy to see the operation occurring and receive syrup from "their trees". I had one family delivering sap last year, they were driving sap from 25 taps about 20 miles to a big operation. They were thrilled to almost give it to me seeing im a local town guy. Most small landowners are happy to feel their trees are being used. Hence why people approach about single or a few trees. This probably changes when landowners have acres of trees and see value in their land

[markcasper]

Mark, thanks for the input. I put a ton of time into figuring out what was the right thing to do, so I feel really bad if I've been off. I landed on the gal/100 taps from this forum. It's really the only way I can get industry practice here in the flat lands. I looked at syrup compensation and I also tried to get a sense of what money people paid per tap. I don't have anything near 100 taps out anywhere, so I simplified it to 1 qt/25 taps. I double-checked that against what that would be per tap and came up with $.80. In reality, nothing split evenly on people's property to amounts of syrup, so I round up to the next container size, so it's usually closer to $1.00/tap. I thought that put me right in the middle of other people's $/tap. I offer the land owners the money or the syrup and they always choose the syrup.

Seeing how you calculated it, I see where I'm off. I used my retail price for a quart for the 25 taps and I didn't work the cost of syrup per pound. I'm going to get back to this and figure it out. I feel crappy, but it will be an easy fix. I'm only a few years into using other people's property, so I can easily make it up to them this year and do things better moving forward. I especially want to get it right, because each year I have more and more people who want me to put a (single) bucket in their yard and they are willing to bring it over. I've declined offers because it seems like a headache for all the expected reasons, but I'm more open to it if I have an easy-to-remember, fair way to pay them back.

Thanks again,
Sean Sean, I cannot imagine having many people bringing over the sap from one tree. To keep track of that to me would be very hard. The time it would take to deal with recording 5 or 10 gallons of sap is the same as for somebody that brought you a load of say several hundred gallons. I know of some syrup producers that tap on different lands and they actually pay a percentage based on the quantity of sap and sugar content, even though the sugarmaker is doing all the work. In my situation....how am I going to measure what come across the fence line and into my own trees? Its impossible and not realistic. Some say I should be figuring my retail price when charging my sap suppliers for syrup back. I disagree because at the same time, they are the same ones that fill a cart of wood, or wash a drum or two while they are unloading, or hose out an empty tank.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If your retail price for syrup in quarts is $60 to $80 a gallon in quarts and you give them a gallon in quarts that is 60 to 80 cents per tap.