Operation extreme tapoff

[PATheron]

Looks like its finally winter here so started tapping today. Little earlier than usual but normally I have to take a week off to tap and this year I don't really want to do that so just going to work along at it all month. Going to tap the warmer woods first and then the colder ones after that. Nice time to work in the woods. Theron

[tuckermtn]

Go man go! what is your snow cover like down your way? we have pretty much bare ground up this way...think I can see Parker and his girls pulling mainline from here...

good luck with the upcoming season...

[PATheron]

Eric- We don't really have any snow here now its just cold out. I kind of like it if I don't have to tap in the snow. It was fun today because usually im in this big rush to get the taps in but doing it this way I can take my time. Im kind of fixing little stuff to as I go. You guys almost always have lots of snow up your way. Theron

[maple flats]

We will start tapping next Tuesday, doing old sections on CV2 first. Then as soon as the weather gets right we will do our new taps on clear Star straight taps.

[psparr]

I only have about 2-300 taps so I am flexible with timing. But it seems pretty early yet?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron has 8000 +, is working full time and is doing it himself so it's not too early.

[PATheron]

I honestly wish I could tap right before it runs and I think Id probly do a little better. We almost never make much syrup till march but one year we made half our syrup in February so I always want to be tapped in by first of February. Ive found that with my taps it takes 4 to 6 weeks of actual run time to kill the taps and when its froze up it doesn't seem to count. So if its froze till March I think there fine and if it warms up I make syrup so either way they seem to have to run that long to dry out and by that time well have a bunch of syrup. Last year tapped everything in January and sat in the house till almost March before they ran and then they ran like heck. Im kind of hoping its froze in February and I have everything ready Ill go hook up more trees. I am using checkvalves and always have the pump on when its not froze so that's probly why they go so long. Theron

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

Good Luck this year Theron! We are supposed to get a fifty degree day here Sunday, so I am holding out till that is over. May start to tap next week if the weather looks to stay cold.

Neil

[adk1]

Yikes, I eye Valentine's Day!

[spud]

Looks like its finally winter here so started tapping today. Little earlier than usual but normally I have to take a week off to tap and this year I don't really want to do that so just going to work along at it all month. Going to tap the warmer woods first and then the colder ones after that. Nice time to work in the woods. Theron

Hope you have a great season PATheron. I have a friend from Alaska coming on the 18th and he will help me tap for one week. After that I may be on my own so I will just plug away at it till it's done. I want to be all tapped in by mid Feb. Most of my sap will come the last two weeks of March and the first three weeks of April. Right now we only have 2 inches of snow on the ground but tomorrow is going to rain and be 45 degrees. My plan is to beat the deep snow because it's hard on the back.

Spud

[Sugarmaker]

Theron,
Its early for us but with all your taps I understand. Good luck this year! I know you put a ton of effort into making syrup!
Regards,
Chris

[Dennis H.]

Go, Theron, Go.

[PATheron]

Thanks you guys, hopefully this will be a real good year. Theron

[SeanD]

Theron has 8000 +, is working full time and is doing it himself so it's not too early.

Check out his signature. He's at 11.5K. Theron, you should have been tapping an month and a half ago. Get going!

[PATheron]

Been out tapping on and off all day. Trees are dry and its pretty cold. Its been sleeting all day. Its kind of nice to just take your time and finetune little things as you go with no pressure. I was thinking if a guy had a lot of taps and that's all he did you could really do a lot with the newer technology letting you tap earlier. Basically you could just wait till it got cold and just tap all winter long till it finally warmed up. Theron

[collinsmapleman2012]

yeah im right there with you ill only be running 2500 for this year but between college in a two weeks and the dairy farm I wont have much time after the 13th. im going to get my cv2's next weekend and I might throw in 1,000, then the rest at the end of the month. im working on putting in more still, I have about 300 put up out of the 1200 im adding, but im also working on fixing the rest of the woods too. when all is said and done I want to be tapped no later than January 31, I should be able to get it done in a weekend with the right crew and encouragement (Lunch!!!). also working on some other projects around the saphouse and putting in a sap shed so all my sap is coming to the road. no more carrying gas 1,000 feet which is nice. good luck theron, I hope to be right up in that tap range with ya someday, should be able to if I can add 1,000 a year. at least that is the plan lol but nothing ever goes according to plan!

[DrTimPerkins]

Basically you could just wait till it got cold and just tap all winter long till it finally warmed up. Theron

Hopefully we'll determine that within the next couple of years.

[spud]

I look forward to reading that study someday. My guess is you will find production in April to be less per tap if you tap in early January. Between my fall tapping experiments and early tapping (early January) I am seeing a production drop after 12 weeks. A tap hole will still be dripping sap after 16 weeks but the amount of sap per run drops a lot (in my woods). A frozen tree will not heal as fast but does it stay frozen all winter? A lot of people tap 6-10 inch trees and it does not take much sun to warm up the tap hole on a sunny winter day. When that happens the tap hole starts to heal. Several of these mini warm ups might have the tap hole drying up a bit even though great sugaring weather is still to come in April. So a person with 1000 taps might be getting 750+ gallons per sap run (in April) but had they tapped in mid Feb the same run may have giving 1500+ gallons. I plan to tap a few weeks earlier this year with CV2s spouts and I am excited to see if my sap runs in April match what they were last season. About 50-85% of all my sap comes in the month of April so I don't want to jeopardize that. I enjoy charting all my production each year in an effort to learn how to be a better sugar maker. Dr Tim's results will help all of us in the future and I am alway waiting for him and PMRC to publish something new. It would be great if the study used both large and small trees.

Spud

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Hopefully we'll determine that within the next couple of years.

I tapped about 65% of my taps last year on Jan 8th & 9th and got whole 400 gallons of sap from 400+ taps. The other 35% were tapped after first of February and I would have had a much better production if I had waited and tapped all of them after first of February. All of my taps last year had new clear leader seasonal spouts and new drop lines. The 65% were still running a little bit late in the season, but not nearly as much as the 35%. I know the big guys have to start tapping early to finish, but if you don't have to, I would wait as long as you can. Our season here is usually over around March 21st on average, but I have made syrup into April a couple of times and seen it end by the middle of March. It is hard to make any syrup here before the first of February here. Even with the temps look good in January, the sun is not high enough in the sky like it is later in the season, so the sap won't hardly run and usually too much frost in the ground.

[unc23win]

I think deciding when to tap definitely depends on the number pf taps and the year and persons available time to get the job done. If I remember right Theron did pretty good last season tapping early January and still getting sap in late April maybe even May 1. My opinion would be that although taps tapped early might start to run less later on in the season more than likely all of the taps would run during the season peak which for us in PA would be mid March to mid April most seasons.

Of course you must also consider that with more taps say 11,000 smaller runs can still be pretty large compared to say 1,500. I experienced this last season I actually had a pretty good run after I had emptied and cleaned the evaporator had I had maybe 500 gallons more I would have fired back up as the price of B and C grade is still worth the effort. It would be the same for say a less than par early run having more taps would make an early run worth it.

Having said that our weather here currently is like a yo yo today was maybe 30' and VERY windy tomorrow is a high of 52' then a high of 25' for the rest of the week.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I should have stated that the 400 gallons from the best 400+ taps was in January. They were ran good In February and first half of March. I would guess the 400 gallons would have prob been at least 1500 gallons more in March if I had waited until February to tap comparing the what the 260+ taps did in February and March.

[PATheron]

The early tapping seems to work for me but I don't know if its the best because Ive always done it. Never not tapped in January at somepoint its just usually second week I start. Im feeling real good about it. I got roughly 800 taps wet today but I got my remote releaser working which needed a bunch of work that wont have to be done on a real run day and also got those leaks fixed this morning. Looks like the rest of month all froze good so that will let me get everything else tapped while its froze. I just never tap a wet tree, although I have tapped them in January and they did go the distance, try not to. If theres one drop of sap in the releaser the vac pump will be running. I use checkvalves and then operate like I don't use them. That's pretty much it. Probly depends on tons of variables. My warm woods slow down first end of March but they still outproduce my cold woods because they start so late. I never really make April sap I just figure end of March pretty much it. I worry about the taps but when I first started I went up to northern Maine to Wheelers and while we were there he was tapping, December, for May sap and that's when I decided that froze time don't count. His averages are way better than mine so figure way to go for me. If I had buckets or gravity tube Id tap second week of February. I just get excited so I go for it. Fun. Im probly a Moron but I usually get some sap. Theron

[spud]

I should have stated that the 400 gallons from the best 400+ taps was in January. They were ran good In February and first half of March. I would guess the 400 gallons would have prob been at least 1500 gallons more in March if I had waited until February to tap comparing the what the 260+ taps did in February and March.

I think you are right. I found that tapping later gave me a lot more sap per run. I am kinda in the same situation as PATheron though. I now have 9000 taps and I have to get it done. If I wait till Feb the snow could be deep and then it is real hard on my back. I have some free help for a week (Jan 18th-24th) so I think I better get started. I am going to see how much we get done that week and then I might hold off on the rest. I am saving my best section of woods for last so those holes are the freshest. The month of April is my big month.

Spud

[PATheron]

My neighbor says that we make all our syrup third week of March and year after year that seems pretty close. We just had that one year that we made half our syrup in February. The woods I started tapping in this weekend I know I tapped in January last year but cant remember when was froze up when I tapped it and then we were cold till almost end of march like everyone else. My warmer woods kicked in a little earlier than that woods and then when the frost went out of the ground, this is two full months later, we had a run and got as near as I could tell something around 25000 gallons in one day. That woods that Im tapping now I think did around 9000 gallons on 3300 taps. I can never tell for sure because I only have a 6400 gallon tanker trailer at the sugarhouse and as soon as it starts running Im ro'ing so I was going by what we were hauling. Im pretty sure they were the numbers. We made syrup as long as anyone else did, a ton of commercial stuff because it was a bad year and I left the pump on for my buddy wanted to make more of it. I went back there after I turned the pump off and the farmer said that he figured it ran thousands of gallons down the creek after I quit picking it up. Maybe just because its a cold woods that it goes that long. Theron

[PATheron]

Operation extreme tap off hasn't been that extreme. Been plugging away slow and steady. Gonna try to hit it hard this weekend. Liking the looks of the weather. Looks to be cold for good while and other night got some snow so hopefully the frost doesn't get real deep. Think the stars lining up for banner season. Like to get tapped and then try to hook up some more trees but have to wait and see. Everything takes longer than a guy thinks. Theron

[unc23win]

Everything takes longer than a guy thinks. Theron

Ain't that the truth. Good luck Theron

[PATheron]

Jared - Where are you at over to middlebury? I know where Owletts place is. Is it near there? Theron

[unc23win]

Owlett's store is about 5 miles. I am up the road from Houghtalings Garage.

[upsmapleman]

I think he is talking about Russell and Gilbert's Operation on French Hill.

[unc23win]

Oh in that case I am right up the road on French Hill.

[PATheron]

I think I know where now, your just up the road from their sugarshack? I travel that road a lot from Osceola to middlebury and see their lines down on the blacktop but have only been up the sugarshack road once or twice. That's probly why I didn't know where you were. Theron

[unc23win]

Yea I am up the road about 2-3 miles from them I have horse barn and arena along the road.

[PATheron]

Operation extreme tapoff still not that extreme. Tapping at night to save vacation. I think maybe by Wednesday will have about 4000 done. Working on my property where theres a lot of old ragged trees that I have a hard time getting good holes. Using 45 inch drops and tapping way high. Getting way better holes than ever got before so Im thinking the vac going to be better than usual. Kind of slowing us down but Im hoping for big results. Hoping by weekend be close to 5000 holes maybe. Saturday through Monday looks like a little warm up so hoping to make some syrup. Will slow down tapping but that's ok if making some syrup. Wont tap if its thawed out but will be a good time to fix vacuum leaks. Warmed up just enough to put a little sap in the releasers so turned on pumps when got home to keep them clean and found a big mainline broke from the extreme cold. Got that fixed and maybe tapped 500 after dark so pretty good day. Keep on keepin on. Just like Parker says cant give an inch. Theron

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Wont tap if its thawed out

Why not if thawed?

[PATheron]

Seems like its less sanitary somehow to me. Not sure if it does matter ive just kind of got that in my head. If the bark is wet or the sap is running seems like its more apt to transfer bacteria on the bit to the next hole instead of frozen chips just falling off the bit. Theron

[lew]

Theron,

Funny you should mention not tapping thawed wood. A fellow producer near me refuses to tap frozen wood. Claims he read a study that tapping frozen wood reduced yield and increased healing time. Never saw the study he was referencing to. Just throwing it out there for discussion. Personally I tap when we have time and as close to when we think we are going to collect our first sap as possible.

[PATheron]

Lew- Ive heard not to tap frozen wood too. Ive always heard that will make tree split. I seem to have good luck other than the reds have to be real careful. Who really knows for sure. There are so many variables to the production that I think all you can do is what seems to work for you after listening to everyones ideas. Heading out now, took the afternoon off. All amped up, love tapping. Theron

[Rossell's Sugar Camp]

Theron. I am with you there. I also think that tapping early in January will not effect yield because the sap will not grow in the cold tempuratures. The exact reason we keep our food in the freezer.

[DrTimPerkins]

A fellow producer near me refuses to tap frozen wood. Claims he read a study that tapping frozen wood reduced yield and increased healing time.

The older 7/16" spouts were much more wedge-shaped, and could result in splitting wood when tapping into frozen wood, especially if driven too deeply. The newer 5/16" spouts have much less taper, and thus are less likely to cause splitting. We see very little of this type of damage when tapping into frozen wood these days unless the spouts are seated far too deeply. Even then you often don't see much splitting. Therefore tapping into frozen wood is a fairly common thing, especially given that some operations have several or tens of thousands of taps and have to start early. Good sanitation (and good vacuum) makes it possible to tap trees early and not have reduced yields in the latter half of the season.

It does seem that some particular trees, especially some red maples, do split quite readily.

[PATheron]

Been tapping along slow and steady. Im amazed at how well the trees insulated themselves. Everything is a delay reaction. In the spring if we do have frost that drives down into the ground they just wont run right till that comes out of the ground. By the same token youll have a week of very cold and youd think no way itll run till you give the trees a good amount of time to thaw out but not the case. A week of 0 temps doesn't do what youd think. Today I was tapping trees and its been real cold and well below freezing while Im tapping and sap would start out of a south hole. Can also tell just by using a tapping bit for frozen wood and hit the south side of the tree and itll about suck you right through the tree. Wood, good insulation. I tap all over the tree with no favoring of the south side, only good wood is my goal and so I really notice the difference in tree if part of it is thawed. Kind of neat to study what the trees do. Theron

[DrTimPerkins]

Kind of neat to study what the trees do. Theron

I totally agree with you. :D

[unc23win]

That is pretty cool Theron I am finding myself being more and more observant as well. Thanks for sharing.

[Rossell's Sugar Camp]

Got 600 tapped today. Gonna head out in the morning to tap the other 200. Then I have more tubing to put out and maybe another 100? Time permitting?

First year on R.O. and first year on BRAND NEW pans. Definitely wont be a dull moment. Should be very exciting.

[PATheron]

Tapping along slow and steady here in northeast Pa. Thinking got around 6000 tapped in maybe. Not keeping track of anything very close. First time ever feeling very relaxed about the season. Im getting the feel that theres not going to be really any sap here in February. I think that where Im at its going to be cold till March and then its going to open up and run like heck and be all over by April. Don't know why just feeling im getting. Getting really good vibes. Im going out on a limb and predicting banner season. Im pretty sure Im right. Had a couple days got over freezing and so I turned pump on as is my practice and didn't get anything. Nothings really seeping out of the trees just staying just about right temp. Im betting first of March holes be as good as if I tapped them first of March without the stress of tapping them all night before season. Tapping until its all in. Making sure all I have to do is hit the swithes, walk the lines and make sure there perfect then go in and watch American Pickers rest of winter and wait for the BIGSAP to come to Poppa. Nine weeks and its all over here. Theron

[Brian Ryther]

I dig your style Theron. I couldn't agree more. This slow going taping is relaxing. I am putting in a few hundred every day while having the time to get other chores done. It is going to be a great season.

[PATheron]

Brian- Up to 7000 so far. Was tapping a hill that was slow going. Have 3 day weekend so think Im going to try to pick up the pace and tap the reds this weekend. That would put me around 10 if it went well. Seem to be slow this year. Been tapping alone quite a bit and its a lot slower. Im debating once everything is tapped whether to tap more trees or try to get more of the taps to pump to the sugarhouse. Im leaning towards that. I think with some one inch pipe I could get around 7500 to pump to the house instead of the 3300 now. Save a lot of trucking. The trucking is easy but takes a lot of time and if I could get that pumping reliable it would make things a lot easier. That would leave a 1000 taps that would only have to be trucked maybe two miles a trip and then the reds that have to be trucked 10 miles round trip and now there are around 3200 taps there so that's still a lot of trucking. Have to see how the weather goes. Hoping February is froze and then runs in March, if that's the case banner season. No matter what when it goes from cold to warm have to get some sap. Cant wait. Theron

[PATheron]

Still tapping. Hoping to be done by end of week. Then have to work on and set out a vac pump and most everything should be operational. Think then Im going to try to get more of the taps pumping into the shed. Looks like plenty of time with the whole month froze up maybe. Lot of little things to do. Theron

[optionguru]

Theeeron, I love reading about your constant battle with time and your large operation. Keeps me humble when I think about all the effort I think I put in for my little operation. Good luck this season.

[PATheron]

Pete- In my area my operation isn't really that big believe it or not. Its pretty big for one guy with some side help but over a little west of me there is several real large producers make my stuff look like nothing. My stuff is not fancy either. When we did it with the flat pan it was less stressful but it was a ton of work. Lot of wood, have to stoke the fire all night stuff like that so I know exactly what your talking about. Wed do around 20 gallons of syrup a year for 20 years off and on. Fun as heck but man it took a long time to boil it down. Homemade 2 by 6 flat pan. Go around with 4 wheeler and pick up sap and sometimes tip over the trailer with 55 gallon drum of sap. I think it was tougher than what were doing now. Theron

[PATheron]

Still tapping down here in pa. Hope to maybe finish up this weekend. Then Ive got one vac pump to set up and everything would be operable. Was going to maybe put in pump lines to put more sap to the shed but kind of out of money. Thinking Im going to go around doing some good tweeking. Maybe heat some releasers, etc. Do have stuff to add more taps so will do that until it starts running. Kind of getting worried a little in back of my mind because we haven't had a good year since we were at around 8000 taps. I think Ive got everything so that we can handle the sap but still feel a little insecure. Cant wait for season wont be long now. Used half the vacation I did last year to tap so ahead of the game there. Things going good. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Things are at a stand still here. It's one snow storm after another and frigid cold weather making hard to get into the woods to get things done. Unlike in years past I haven't done anything in the woods except remove brush and downed trees and get the lines off the ground. I usually tap around Valentines day but it looks like that won't happen this year.

[PATheron]

Still tapping. Nephew and I tapped 500 tonight after dark. Going to finish up red maple woods tomorrow. That should have everything tapped but maybe 6 or 700 on a steep north slope that wont run for a while anyway. Big relief having the tapping about done. Snow here loose and maybe foot to foot and half deep. Supposed to get another foot maybe this week. Hat off to guys up north. How you guys get the work done in that deep snow is beyond me. You guys are tough. Going to transition now from operation extreme tap off to operation extreme tweek off. Got to tinker on releasers and such till that's all good then guess hook up trees till it runs. Fun tapping, my favorite part, but big relief to have it done. Cant wait to here the crows caw and feel the sun come out and know big sap coming my way. Hope everyone makes lots of syrup. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

We have to use snowshoes up here when the snow is too deep for just boots. The problem this year is the cold. It is too cold to work with tubing. The snow is a pain too but if you go through and tread down a path early enough you can get through again without too much trouble. When there's 3' of virgin powder out there it's tough especially when you fall or sink all the way to the bottom.

[Russell Lampron]

Here's a funny story from last season. My son went to a neighbors to help them get tapped in. They all laughed at him when he got the snowshoes out. Everybody went out into the woods in pairs except for my son who went in alone. At the end of the day the teams without snowshoes had tapped 400 or less and my son, who did his alone had tapped just under 600.

[PATheron]

Cold here this morning. Looks to me like cold well into March. Has to get warm sometime and then we'll get sap. Working on pumps and releasers this weekend. My one woods that has all the red maple taps had the vacuum pump 1000 ft from the releaser. Moving that pump 500 ft closer and making a better setup for the pump. Need to put new orings in some of the releasers and make them easier to work on where some of them are on top of tanks. Think Ill be on pumps and releasers all this next week and that should do it for that. Then have 500 more taps to put in on steep bank. Once that's done not sure if Ill just finetune lines some more or add more taps. Found a lot more taps at the red maple woods. Got a lunch box releaser from my friend Dean and trying to decide where to put that. Going to get some video of it working and post it for everyone. Think it looks like a great way to tap some smaller areas where typical vacuum is too expensive. I wonder if this year is going to be like last year. If it is we all better have our stuff perfect so we get all that we can get. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

There's no warm up in sight here either. It looks like we are in for a noreaster which may turn into a blizzard for Saturday and Sunday. I'm getting pretty sick of the cold and snow.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Experiencing global warming here a few hours south of Theron too. Showing bitter cold up until almost March. We have made a little syrup, but hoping March stays cool and doesn't warm up too soon. We usually make a lot of our crop in February, about 40% and about 60% in March.

[DrTimPerkins]

Going to transition now from operation extreme tap off to operation extreme tweek off.

Just don't post any photos or videos when it develops into operation twerk off. :D

[PATheron]

That's the next operation "extreme twerk off" . Ill be doing my miley Cirus impression complete with speedo, drill and tapping hammer. Itll be kind of like the firemans calander. Ill try to post some pics soon. Theron

[meadster02]

Hey Theron thanks for the lead on those releasers. I picked one of the singles up it had never even been out of the package. looks like we will be getting tapped this week. I don't think we will be boiling any time soon but we will at least be ready. Thanks again

[spud]

That's the next operation "extreme twerk off" . Ill be doing my miley Cirus impression complete with speedo, drill and tapping hammer. Itll be kind of like the firemans calander. Ill try to post some pics soon. Theron

Oh God save us all. If you're going to do the impression thing please wait till it gets a bit warmer or it could turn into - Operation fall Off. :o

Spud

[PATheron]

No prob on the releaser, hope you guys have a great season, No operation here today. first day in as long as I can remember didn't work in the woods because so cold. Running three heaters in ro room. Do you think looking like good season up there Spud or looking like a repeat of last year? For some reason Im thinking good season here but I kind of have a feeling its all going to be second two weeks of March for some reason. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

I was out plowing snow in the bone chilling cold this morning for over 3 hours on my 4 wheeler. It took all afternoon for me to finally get warmed up. I can't remember when it has been this cold and snowy for this long. I've got a Modine heater in my RO room that is fed by my outdoor wood boiler. It's always 40* or higher in there.

[spud]

No prob on the releaser, hope you guys have a great season, No operation here today. first day in as long as I can remember didn't work in the woods because so cold. Running three heaters in ro room. Do you think looking like good season up there Spud or looking like a repeat of last year? For some reason Im thinking good season here but I kind of have a feeling its all going to be second two weeks of March for some reason. Theron

PATheron- I have a very good feeling for this season. I too think the last two weeks of March and the first three weeks of April will be nothing but big runs. I am in hopes of getting 200,000-250,000 gallons of sap. Time will tell. I wish you guys in PA the best.

Spud

[PATheron]

Russ- I feel for you with that cold and snow. You cant work when its that cold. Im thinking good season for some reason but I think its going to be all condensed. One thing for sure when it warms up well get sap just have to wait and see how much. I keep thinking going to add more taps but the finetuning and necessary work just isn't getting wrapped up real fast. It is going to be fun once the sap starts running. Spud- Are you close to that JR Sloan guy?

[spud]

JR. Sloan's place is about 45 minutes away. I have seen it many times but never stopped by. They are one of several larger operations in the Franklin County area.

Spud

[JoeJ]

JR Sloan's sugar house was on the VT maplerama Tour this past summer. Pretty extreme. He is going to boil sap from 150,000 taps this year. He has, if I remember correctly, RO's with a total of 43 membranes. He boils the concentrate on 3 oil fired 4 x 14 evaporators.

If that is not extreme enough, I was in Island Pond Vt on Friday where Sweet Tree Maple has bought an 80,000 sq ft old factory to boil sap in, 3,200 acres of land to tap, paid to install about 7 miles of 3 phase power lines along rte 114, installed 94,000 taps last year since June, and as I have heard, plan to add 100,000 a year for the next 4 years. As you drive up rte 114 from Island Pond, Sweet Tree has 5 maybe 8' x 30' metal shipping containers, all with 3 phase power to run the vacuum pumps and sap pumps. The sap is pumped up to 2 1/2 miles to a huge maybe 75' x 200' RO building in the middle of the 7 mile stretch. The concentrate is going to be trucked about 8 miles to the old factory to be boiled. Sweet Tree Maple is owned by Woods Creek Capital Management out of New Haven Conn.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Going to be a lot of cheap high end maple equipment in a few years if we have a few more seasons like the last 2 years the way taps are being added.

[spud]

Sweet Tree Maple will never show profit. They have over $100.00 per tap in their set-up so far. The only people making money from this operation is CDL.

Spud

[n8hutch]

[QUOTE=spud;267505]Sweet Tree Maple will never show profit. They have over $100.00 per tap in their set-up so far. The only people making money from this operation is CDL.
I find this Fascinating, I don't know enough about the project to agree with spuds accessment or disagree. The whole thing is rather mind blowing. How many grants & tax breaks do they qualify for, especially creating Jobs in that area, anyone who has driven through Island Pond in the Last few years can clearly see that , that town is Hurting. At the same time is a "Maple Farm"Like This really a good thing for the Syrup Business? I tend to doubt it. It's Hard to imagine that they are going through All this trouble for A 7 Year Tax write Off. One thing is for sure, All of this is probably better off in a new thread that's more on subject. My apologies PAtheron

[spud]

Due to the extreme temps outside I guess we got side tracked. This cold spell we are all having is causing everyone to get a little crazy. I thought the discussion on a very large sugaring operation would be better then seeing PATheron do the speedo thing. :o

Spud

[PATheron]

Might be done tapping tomarrow night finally. Started Jan 1. Kind of wanted to do something fancy or add more taps but its looking like it might warm up end of this month. If so going to have to go to war with the army I have. Should take about that long to get all the little stuff done and ready. Almanac said feb colder than normal and March warmer than normal. If it would run all March be a great season here. Have to wait and see. Theron

[PATheron]

Done tapping as of tonight. Took me 48 days. Eleventy five hundred taps give or take. Gonna be mad if there all dry after all that. Hate to have to start over again. Guess if they are be an easy season. Theron:-|

[meadster02]

Look on the bright side if the are all dry your 8 o'clock tour of the other sugar houses could start a lot earlier ha ha.

[PATheron]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Would actually be more fun but a lot less profitable. I still have a lot of little things to do but its going to go a lot faster now the drilling is done. Hoping this weekend should have everything operational. Then can just putter till it runs.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think you need the title to operation extreme freeze up.

[meadster02]

I have most of my tinkering done for the year and ready to be up and running. Im just waiting on punching holes. Takes a lot less time to punch 800 holes than 11000 so we can wait right up to the last minute and with three guys we can usually have them done in a night after work. I think were in for a good season but its all gonna happen real quick.

[3GoatHill]

Done tapping as of tonight. Took me 48 days. Eleventy five hundred taps give or take. Gonna be mad if there all dry after all that. Hate to have to start over again. Guess if they are be an easy season. Theron:-|

How many helpers do you have? I think I would need about five or six, just to count that high.

[ennismaple]

Nice job Theron! I hope you have overflowing tanks this season!!!

[PATheron]

Thanks Marty, Some of the time Ill have one helper with me and sometimes I just tap alone. With a helper I can do 1000 per day but honestly Ive just tapped along as Ive felt like it. I didn't even try to do it quick. Ill go out for a couple hours then come home get warm and get something to eat. I did drill every single hole my self. I still have a lot of stuff to do but its all tinker work now. I hope everybodys tanks run over. Fun to see sap after all this cold weather. Theron

[pennslytucky]

sure hope you guys are right on the good season coming. over here, its so cold and the snow is so deep im afraid it will be easter before anything even thaws out! asked my 90 yr old gma if she could remember a winter like this. she said no... i like winter, but ive had my fill this year. ready for some warmer days

[Russell Lampron]

If it turns out like last year we will be getting our sap in April but we will get it. Last season turned out to be my 3rd best ever and I only boiled 5 times in March which is unheard of.

[PATheron]

Things going good here at Pierce and Sons. Been pretty busy getting ready. Hard to go out and work at night with it so cold so I kind of haven't been. Got all my sugarbushes operable where I can turn the pump on and have at least 15 inches of vac. Going to go around Wednesday and clean out releasers and tanks and turn on the pumps as I go. Saturday and Sunday above freezing so be on leak patrol both days morning to night. Want good vac by Sunday night everywhere and start making syrup next week. Thawed out ro room this weekend and ran all the ro machines and was happy to see nothing looks to be messed up. Been running three electric heaters but still froze stuff near floor. Very cold weather. Ordered a tank of fuel to get started, spray out the evaporator and were ready for battle. Whatever the weather does it does as long as I do my job and get all the sap mother nature has to give me Im happy. Good luck to all.

[Russell Lampron]

I got all of my taps on vacuum in and like it is every season we fixed all of the known leaks but still only have 16" of vacuum. It's supposed to be 44* here tomorrow so maybe the sap will run enough to find some of the leaks and get them fixed. I still have some stuff to do in the sugar house to get ready but not much.

[PATheron]

Always like that for me too Russ. Itll come up fast as soon as we start walking the woods. Get a lot of leaks in the off season with squirrels and such. Then leaks will keep showing up for a while too as things thaw out. You guys must be getting about the same weather as us down here right now. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

I saw a lot of squirrel chews while I was tapping but until we have some sap flow we won't be able to tell which ones are just scrapes or if they are leaks that need to be fixed. The thing that sucks this year is that all of the trails through the woods have too much snow on them to get through with the 4 wheelers. That means we have to carry everything in on snowshoes. The biggest leaks that we've found so far have all been at the farthest ends of the mainlines.

I think it's colder up here Theron. It hasn't been above freezing for 1 day since before Christmas. The average temperature for the month of February in Concord, NH was 12.1*, .1* warmer than the coldest on record set in 1934. Concord is just south of me and usually about 5* warmer.

[Jim Brown]

Was in the woods opening up roads with a skid steer and the snow was 32 inches deep on the road in the middle of the woods!
We wait!
Jim

[Russell Lampron]

Hey Jim, You are having deep snow problems this year too I see.

[Russell Lampron]

Big Sap Alert!!! The tsunami has begun.... Crank up the vacuum pumps and make sure the valves are closed on your storage and gathering tanks.

[psparr]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/10/3091fb52cb44ac3eb25ec857e33721b8.jpg
No electric, no releaser, no maintenance. Man I love free vac!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PATheron]

Parr- Starting to wonder if we should all use 3/16 and put a small vac pump on mainline to start sap running if its not good conditions. Sap started running here right off the bat even with ground froze. Have about 8000 working pretty good right now with good vac. Going to boil today sometime were thinking. My red maple woods which is around 3000 plus taps had the ring pump burn up on it so should have another one tomarrow or next day and then should have everything working good. Looks like pretty much game on here now with good looking weather. Theron

[unc23win]

Theron what did you get for sugar content? I am getting about 1.7.

[meadster02]

hey Jared I am just over the hill from you and our sugar is low now too 1.5 on one bush

[unc23win]

Mine looks like water. Where are you at? I'm on French hill above Owletts.

[meadster02]

Norris brook Rd. Mine isn't very sweet yet that's for sure. Things still must be froze up it will get better.

[PATheron]

Jared- Mine is 1.5 or around there. Think were just getting the sap out of the tree but not up from the roots till it thaws out.

[unc23win]

I tested mine last night as I was leaving for the night @ 12 a.m. and it was 2.1. and yesterday was the best for a single day run so far this season. It also froze earlier than forecasted last night as well.

[PATheron]

Hoping to be pretty well dialed in as of today. Off to a good start with everything except one vacuum pump on the redmaple woods burned up just as the sap has started to run. Got a new one from Goodrich and should have it running this morning. Everything in the shed seems to be doing well. Was ro'ing sap other day with ice floating in it to 15 to 18% at around 2000 gph which I thought was pretty good and the evaporator ran without a hitch so cant be happier with things in the shed. Today should be the best vac Ive ever had on the red maple woods so pretty excited to see how they do. Biggest surprise is how its running with ground froze up. The sap started out at 1.5 and is now almost up to 2 so the ground must be loosening up. Still are not getting the big runs but it all adds up. Hope everybody has a good season. Theron

[lew]

Theron,
I hope your theory on why the sugar content is correct. We gathered our first sap yesterday and it tested at 1%. Got about 1.5 gallons per tap from a day and a half. Vacuums not all dialed in yet, but we're getting close.

[PATheron]

Lew- Pretty sure that it because now its up nearer to two already. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Theron you don't have to worry about the frozen ground. In fact I like to see some frost in the ground. The frost will keep the cold in the woods which will help during the warm spells. Some of my worst seasons have been when there wasn't any frost in the ground and no snow. The best season that I had started out with almost 3 feet of frost in the ground and 2 feet of snow on top of that. We got a foot of snow every week through sugaring season and I boiled until April 21st that year. That season started slow similar to this one but once the trees melted the snow ring around the base they gave sap like I haven't seen before or since.

[PATheron]

You must be right Russ because it is running. I have had times though when the weather was good but it wouldn't run good for a while because the ground was hard. I think theres an awful lot of variables even between each little hill and such wherever the sugarbushes are. Theron

[PATheron]

Things going pretty good here. Busy but keeping up ok. Only big thing so far is a broken vacuum pump. We have been busy enough that Im having trouble getting through the whole system on bubble patrol but vac pretty good. Pretty much 23 to 25 inches everywhere. Once I get through everything should be pretty much up to speed. Running well for as hard as the ground is. If weather holds thinking it looks like a good year here. Theron

[Maplewalnut]

Pretty much the same thing here Theron. Have been busy, making some syrup but also attending to some equipment failures. Ground still frost here, no tree rings around bases and another 6 inches of snow in forecast tomorrow. I am hoping to make syrup until mid April. Keep at it!

[PATheron]

Struggling a little here but overall not going to bad. Real cold temps here at night after a good flow seemed to have broken and loosened a lot of stuff. Worked on vac all day yesterday but got it pretty good by end of day. Three woods are real good on vac but one still needs some work. Still hasn't really loosened up. Have made quite a bit of early season syrup that is really nice so pretty happy. Looks like gets warmer today and runs all night and tomorrow hopefully. Overall having pretty good time. Kind of looking foreward to season being over and the weather getting nice and goofing off with kids but for now getting every drop of syrup can get. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

I's still pretty slow up here but could be breaking loose today. I am one of the lucky ones that has made some syrup in my area. A friend in the next town over has boiled 3 times and hasn't made any syrup yet. One of the big producers in town with 8000 taps has made 90 gallons and another that has 12000 taps has made 120. I have made 20 gallons with 800 taps and had 250 gallons of sap in the tank last night. Like it is for you guys in PA when the temp gets above freezing this morning it isn't supposed to go below freezing until Friday night. Hopefully we all get a good run out of it.

[PATheron]

Challenging year here for us for sure. Ground just thawed out less than a week ago. By far our worst production numbers since Ive done it but satisfied with the fact that we haven't missed one drop of sap that was available to us. The woods I stared tapping January one, and had one run on very early in January just had the ground thaw out less than a week ago. When it did that woods was running roughly 500 gallons per hour on roughly 3300 taps. All my numbers are a little rough because I have trouble keeping track the way we do it. That was checkvalves in that woods on old drops. We are still going now and survived a couple 60 plus degree days. All my sap is clear and still running and every gallon of syrup weve made has been very high quality. Hope to go through the weekend and if we do my production looks to be quite a bit better than I feared. Looks like Im going to hit 75% of what we consider a minimum crop. Our only strategy now is to keep the tanks crazy clean and try to boil it as soon as it comes out of the trees but kind of hard with having to go back to work. Having fun, no complaints, weve done our job and if going to fret about mother nature might as well get out of it. Theron

[ennismaple]

I hear ya Theron! A week ago we'd barely made any syrup, we had a decent Easter Weekend and it looks like we're now thawed out so it'll start running well - and it's supposed to be waaaay too warm from this weekend onwards. We might get to 75% of an average crop if we're lucky unless the forecast changes.

[Russell Lampron]

Like you guys the weather looks way too warm for this weekend. For me the temps haven't been as high as what was in the forecast. It was only supposed to get down to 29* last night and it was 24* when I got up this morning. I got a good run today when I wasn't expecting much. I have made 40 gallons less than last year so far and have 600 gallons going through the RO now. I'm thinking that I am going to be close to 100% of an average season when the season is done.

[GeneralStark]

Theron - I have many customers that really love dark syrup. I mean boot strap dark, or as Beanie says, Pennsylvania Fancy. I am tooled up, motivated, well rested, have new spouts and drops or CV2s, and have what it takes to make some of this special syrup. Please, tell me what I need to know to do it. I have the time and the will power...I don't care what the sugar content is...as long as I can get it through the ro and filter press...it is gold. How do I make the Very Dark Strong???

[mellondome]

Theron - I have many customers that really love dark syrup. I mean boot strap dark, or as Beanie says, Pennsylvania Fancy. I am tooled up, motivated, well rested, have new spouts and drops or CV2s, and have what it takes to make some of this special syrup. Please, tell me what I need to know to do it. I have the time and the will power...I don't care what the sugar content is...as long as I can get it through the ro and filter press...it is gold. How do I make the Very Dark Strong???

Stop using the ro and bring your rig back to a simmer.

[Russell Lampron]

Theron - I have many customers that really love dark syrup. I mean boot strap dark, or as Beanie says, Pennsylvania Fancy. I am tooled up, motivated, well rested, have new spouts and drops or CV2s, and have what it takes to make some of this special syrup. Please, tell me what I need to know to do it. I have the time and the will power...I don't care what the sugar content is...as long as I can get it through the ro and filter press...it is gold. How do I make the Very Dark Strong???

Around here we call the darker than B New Hampshire fancy. All you have to do is keep boiling when you get a run and you should make some of that very dark syrup. If you have a bubbler in your flue pan shut it off. That will make it dark in a hurry.

[GeneralStark]

I'm talking about the syrup Theron makes weeks after everyone else has thrown in the towel. How is that done?

[Parker]

Hows it runnin?

[PATheron]

Parker, Its running ok. I think Monday It ran really good. Good like regular season good. I figure when its running good in regular season my releasers, which are the big old fashioned horizontal single releasers, will dump every 3 minutes roughly on 3000 taps. Monday the one was dumping every two and half minutes. Run was short that day but ran hard. Been light on freezes but syrup adding up. Pretty close to having filled 11 55's at this point. With no freezes doing maybe two drums a day roughly. Im thinking real season started this week as far as the ground goes. Sugar thin, No idea on sap totals, don't really try to keep track, Id say with no freezes doing half a gallon per tap per day. That would be 24 hours. Sugar a little better after a freeze though, maybe 1.5. Red maples very low in sugar when no freezes. Kind of dark syrup that were making all along but we normally make dark syrup anyway. Flavor is incredible. Id say better than normal. Just full of flavor. Things going pretty good knock on wood. Hate to even say that. Getting things pretty well all working. My three bigger woods are around 24 inches of vacuum which is my good number. Pretty darn happy and having fun. Going to try to rack up the gallons on all these negligible runs and be ready for the big runs. Gotta wannnnnnn it! Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Around here we call the darker than B New Hampshire fancy. All you have to do is keep boiling when you get a run and you should make some of that very dark syrup. If you have a bubbler in your flue pan shut it off. That will make it dark in a hurry.

Disregard this information. Turning the bubbler off only slowed down the evaporation rate. The finished product was still a disappointing golden delicate. The New Hampshire fancy is now very dark strong and everybody using the new grading system can make it and sell it as grade A.

It's good to hear that you are doing well in PA Theron. I was caught thinking the season was going to start a little later and haven't gotten tapped in yet.

[PATheron]

Russ- Still real early where you are at so Im sure you haven't missed much. You going to be doing most everything yourself or are you going to be able to find some help? Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Russ- Still real early where you are at so Im sure you haven't missed much. You going to be doing most everything yourself or are you going to be able to find some help? Theron

I'm sure that I haven't missed much but if it's going to be a bad season every little bit counts. Some producers in town are making syrup already and some haven't even started yet. I'm in the middle with some tapped and more to go.

Richard is going to come up and help as much as he can. My wife is planning to help more too. I'm tapping everything this year and hoping that everything works out. If things don't work well I can isolate a section or 2 of my woods to make it more manageable. I'm not going to throw in the towel like Matt did though. I want to get a 600gph RO so that I can sweeten and boil at the same time. I don't want to spend the money for that though if I'm going to have to cut back on the number of taps to keep from being overwhelmed.

[PATheron]

Things going real good here knock on wood. Vacuum good everywhere. My boys have gotten very good at leaks and I hardly have to go in the woods anymore. All three big woods around 25 inches which is super for us. Two dairy pump woods 21 to 22 inches which is what I consider good for them. 3/16 making a bunch of sap. Not sure if its right but runs like crazy. Don't know how to check leaks it just runs fast so it looks like people say it should. Went to end of one line and pulled tap couldn't hear anything haven't had time to put any gages. Ro machines working pretty good. Depending on sap doing maybe on average 1500 to 1800 gallons per hour to give or take 15%. Wish It was more. Getting good amounts of sap off and on. People starting to bring me sap. Making nice syrup. Up to 22 big barrels filled. New auto draw installed on evaporator and working good. Pretty nice to see it come off on its own like that. Being aggressive on every front to get all the sap I can. If it stops running will even hook up more trees but been to busy and tired to as of late. Good luck to all. Looks like a great season. Weather looks great. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Things are going real good here as well. Got my woods tightened up and pulling 26" of vacuum which I have never done before. I went after even the most marginal of leaks and fixed it last weekend. It looks like it is going to pay off. It never got above 35* here Monday but the sun was out. I got close to 50 gallons an hour which is what I would normally get on a good run. The sap was still coming in smooth and steady when the temperature dropped below freezing. The puddles were icing over and the mud was freezing up so I know it was cold. I can't wait until we have a real sap day to see what it will do.

[mountainvan]

Go Theron!

[PATheron]

Right back at you Van. Hope everything goes good with your health and you have a good season. Were off to a good start. Weather looks good coming up too. Theron

[PATheron]

Things going good here. Had a good run other day kind of tired us out but made bunch of syrup. Sap started late in the day and usually I would of waited until next day to start but it was running hard enough I was afraid we would get behind. Boiled until middle of night, broke my sap trailer and had to buy a new one next morning and then boiled that night too. Made seven barrels or a little more so made lots of syrup now just have to recover a little. Looks like good run tomarrow. Today getting another tank so I have more head tank. Need more ro but don't want to spend the money, want to make money this year so using what I have. No complaints looks like a real good year. Think tomarrow will be close to half the syrup made last season and its not quite March so hoping to have banner season. Good luck to all. Theron

[PATheron]

Ran pretty good yesterday and last night. Kids fixed a few vac problems and vacuum seems good everywhere. Not sure exactly how much sap we got but guessing around 15000 gallons. Got up early this morning at 2 and tanker trailer was full to the top of the manholes. Got ros going, they are working good at around 1800 gallons per hour to 15%, trucked some sap and getting ready to boil now. Looks like things going great, hoping for a bunch of syrup. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron,

You got the RO's running all day and boiling concentrate at night??

[PATheron]

Brandon- Sap has been starting later in the day so what we have been doing is haul it in in the evening all we can. I go to bed real early and get up early am and start ro machines and clean barrels and get ready to boil. Also I run around and if anything is going to run over I truck that in quick then I go to work and work part of the day. My dad starts boiling early morning and by the time I get home hes usually getting pretty near done boiling. The kids run around and check vacuum when they get home from school and fix anything that needs fixed. That's been kind of the routine more or less. Tomarrow Im going to take off because its running hard enough were trucking pretty steady to keep ahead of it. Im going to sleep 4 hours now and then start the ro machines. I try not to make concentrate any farther ahead of our boil than possible. Ive got to say that 3/16 is making a lot of sap. Other day I got there and the pump had run out of gas and the 1300 taps that were done normal weren't running a drop with the pump off and the one line with the 600 3/16 were running just like the pump was on. Only thing is I don't know how to really check for leaks on it. All the bubbles really race because the sap just runs fast in it. I haven't had time to mess with it so I figure I just get what I get but someone will have to school me on how to maintain it sometime. It is making a lot of sap. I got all the neighbor boys using it and they are getting big results with it with there 100 tap operations. Id say tomarrow should be at half of a good crop. Worried about warm up but taps are running good and sap looks pretty clear so I have a good feeling its going to be a good year. Maxed out on sap really. Kind of need more tank or more ro machine but going to try not to do it this year so I can keep some good money to pay things down. My problem is I like hooking up trees better than working in the sugarhouse. Gotta stop. Getting stupid. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Theron

Finding leaks is different on 3/16 but not difficult. Worst problem is that if you have a leak in the middle or lower part of the line it keeps the sap from running much above the leak because the line is filling up with air at the leak.

[ennismaple]

Theron - How you making out? Haven't seen a post from you in a while. I hope all is well.

[GeneralStark]

I bet he is too busy making PA Fancy to post...

[Parker]

Wheres the Update?

[PATheron]

Sorry haven't updated lately. Shut the pumps off sunday. Tough season here this year. Sugar averaged around 1.3% is my best guess for the season. Only made good syrup pretty much. Didn't want to make anything ropey because of price so dumped quite a lot of sap. Worst year for averages. Usually we do a third to four tenths but this year only quart per tap range and happy to get that. Was able to live through three 70 plus degree days right in the middle of our season by collecting as soon as it ran, cleaning tanks every pickup and boiling it immediately. Kind of sucked with the weather but still was able to make quite a lot of syrup. Going to be able to pay all the bills, bought a newer nice evaporator, sap trailer and paid for a bunch of new taps without increasing my debt so pretty happy for the season. Going to pull taps and maybe just tinker on my lines this year. Tried to figure how much sap we got and Im thinking it was in the 250000 gallon range so that's something at least. Gotta say we at least were trying. Right now just walking around in kind of a trance with a big grin on my face just thankfull not processing syrup anymore. Theron