long run 5/16? 40 taps

[n8hutch]

I have A row of Roadside maples 3-4' diameter there is about 20 of them. They are in a line about 300' long with a roughly 15' drop over the 300 feet, I was thinking about running a 5/16 rigid line the 300 feet and putting about 40 taps on it, after the last tree I can easily get a 35-40 ft drop in elevation if I run about 75 more feet to A tank, so my question is can I put 40 taps on one 5/16 line and would I see a benefit if I ran a 3/16 line the last 75 feet or possibly 2 3/16 lines the last 75' or just stick with one 5/16 line for the end of the run. Thanks Nate

[Super Sapper]

I would run the whole thing in 3/16. I think they recommend 25 taps per line but they have had success with more.

[n8hutch]

My thinking was that over the first 3-400 ft the sap might travel faster through the 5/16 due to the minimal slope I am going to have, there fore bottlenecking at the 3/16 for the last 75' with maximum slope 30-35' and creating the desired vacuum , I guess I am a little worried that 40-50 taps on one 3/16 line would be too many. Maybe I should just run 2 lines of 3/16 one from the long end say 500' with 20to25 taps & one shorter say 300' with 20-25 taps, I was just hoping for some more real world input.

[gmcooper]

20 years ago I had a couple runs with 40 taps on 5/16 that were on little more of a grade and at least 200 feet long. The ran very well. I would do it all over again.

[tuckermtn]

we have had two very similar long 5/16 runs. they have run very well. would do again in a heartbeat.

can't speak to the 3/16" however...

[NE PA Maple]

I have one year in with two 3/16 lines. I have less elevation change than you have and get excellent vacuum on both my lines. One line has 7 taps on it the other around 17.

I would recommend running two 3/16 lines. I think you will be impressed with the results. I'm running additional lines now to add another 102 taps all on 3/16.

Good luck.

[n8hutch]

Sounds like it will probably work pretty good either way, so know I just need to make up my mind.

[NhShaun]

Sounds like quite the run, where did you find these trees? Close to the shack?

[Shawn]

I ran 48 taps on 5/16 two years ago on gravity slop and it ran hard this year we joined more of our tubing taps to connect to others and some also have done this and they say the gravity feed will run better so its a test for this year and some we have sixty taps on board and some thirty but seems the more you run together and hook together they run hard

[n8hutch]

I would have to believe that the theory of Natural vac could be applied to 5/16 tubing, If you can get a column of sap long enough in the line I would think it would have the same effect, I don't know exactly but I think A 5/16 line will probably flow 3 times as much sap per hour ad a 3/16, so one would think that 50-75 taps on a line might be a good place to start, this is all a guess of course. I would be willing to bet that it is eaiser to achieve vac in 3/16 faster cause you are filling a smaller area tubing wise. These are Trees I have had buckets on in the past , I am just trying to save some time collecting & maybe gain some sap.

[steve J]

Having used 5/16 on a steep hillside and experimenting last year with 3/16 on same hillside 3/16 is clearly vastly superior. I have added still more taps to the 3/16 this year.

[jrgagne99]

Having used 5/16 on a steep hillside and experimenting last year with 3/16 on same hillside 3/16 is clearly vastly superior. I have added still more taps to the 3/16 this year.

How many taps were on each line, and how many feet of drop did you have below the bottom-most tap? Do you know the gallons-per-tap average for each run?

[DrTimPerkins]

How many taps were on each line, and how many feet of drop did you have below the bottom-most tap? Do you know the gallons-per-tap average for each run?

Tim Wilmot (the UVM Maple Extension Specialist who came up with the idea of using 3/16" tubing) has always included 5/16" tubing as a "control" when he compared sap yields. His studies are available on the PMRC website.

The 3/16" tubing has always far out-produced the 5/16". To make 5/16" generate natural vacuum, you need a good number of taps (25-50) and a good drop (like you do with 3/16" tubing), but even then it doesn't produce nearly as good a vacuum and isn't nearly as good as self-perpetuating the process. The 5/16" lines are big enough so that they drain to some degree after the run stops, whereas 3/16" will not due to the capillarity of the tube. So the vacuum tends to continue even if the sap slows greatly or even stops for a while in 3/16", whereas it usually will not in 5/16" tubing, meaning that you need to wait until it freezes again for the next run.

[n8hutch]

I guess That pretty well sums it up, I'm going to try the 3/16. In 2 runs of 25+/-. Thanks everyone for sharing your experience.

[windyacres]

How many taps were on each line, and how many feet of drop did you have below the bottom-most tap? Do you know the gallons-per-tap average for each run? I have about 12000 feet of 3/16 on steep grade- average 20-25 taps per lateral. a control plot (100 taps of new 3/16) doubled 2 and 3 year old 5/16 tubing. Yield per tap in 2014 was 6 /gallon versus 12.6 for 3/16. vacuum gauge showed 18 inches vacuum below the last tap on 3/16. In places I will run two 3/16 into 5/16 via a wye. to equalize vacuum on each 3/16 I run a loop from below the wye back to each small line- in this way one line cannot hog all the flow. In total I will run up to 60-70 taps on 5/16 ,using it as a small mainline taking sap straight to tank. I am tearing out older large laterals- patching together to use as mainline, and replacing laterals with DG small lines

[twitch]

Just to throw a question out there. What kind of slop are you calling enough to run 3/16 line I have herd that on a low grade slop it really does not perform well how much is 2 little slope?

[DrTimPerkins]

Just to throw a question out there. What kind of slop are you calling enough to run 3/16 line I have herd that on a low grade slop it really does not perform well how much is 2 little slope?

It is not the degree of slope, but rather is the amount of elevation DROP you have from your taps to where the sap exits the 3/16" tubing (either into a mainline or a tank of some sort). For each 1 ft drop you get "roughly" 1"Hg of vacuum.

[mapledog13]

I put up 3 lines of 3/16 the other day. I put 35, 30, and 26 taps on each line. My trees are on a a gentle slope and then it drops off pretty good to the tank so that I do get the drop at the end of the line that is neccessary. My concern is that I had to run 1100-1300 feet of tubing per line to get to my tank, 600-800 feet from the last tap on the lines. Is that going to be an issue? From what I have read the length of the line doesn't seem to be a big concern as long as you have the drop. I also have a pretty high number taps on each line so I should have enough sap in the line, right? Its my first experience with tubing so it is a learning process.

[adk1]

It is not the degree of slope, but rather is the amount of elevation DROP you have from your taps to where the sap exits the 3/16" tubing (either into a mainline or a tank of some sort). For each 1 ft drop you get "roughly" 1"Hg of vacuum.

and that is from each tap correct? For instance, my furthest uppermost tap is basically at 1,077 feet. The end of my mainline dumping into my tank at the sugarhouse is at 966 feet, therefore I have 111 feet of elevation difference. I also have taps next to the sugarhouse that are probably at 967 feet or 10 feet above the outlet of the mainline. each tap will have a different Hg I would take it?

[Super Sapper]

If your sugarhouse is at 957 feet then every tap above 987 should have max. vac. The ones 10 feet higher than at the sugarhouse would have about 10".

[DrTimPerkins]

... each tap will have a different Hg I would take it?

Correct. Up to the point where max vacuum is reached (based upon your elevation and how tight your system is).