Masport M5 (Universal brand) vane-type vacuum pump question

[mmccallum]

Hi,

I have a vacuum pump from a dairy facility. It was marketed by Universal, but it is a Masport vacuum pump. I believe it is an M5 or very similar model and it was probably purchased back in 1976. IT has a 5 hp single phase elecric motor. The pump sat for 15 years without use, and I am cleaning it up.

First question, did this model possibly have a gasket behind the plate that is removed to access teh bearings and vanes inside the pump chamber?

Second question, when I have the pump opened up, it is pretty obvious that the berrings are in very good shape and spin very freely. Also, if you grab the belt attached to the motor, you can spin the entire system very freely. However, when I tighten the bolts back down, the pump does not move. I have not hooked this up to elecricity because if the pump won't spin by hand, I do not care to tear up the motor.

Third, the vanes currently seem to be locked into their grooves, and I cannot get them to slide in and out by hand. Is this just because the centrifigal force is insufficient, or is it that the vanes are just locked in there from lack of use and in need of a big pile of penetrating oil or degreaser to work the things free?

Any experiences here would be very helpful!

[maple maniac65]

sounds like there should be a shim behind the plate. I have a gast that does the same thing with no shim. I put it together tight then back the bolts off until it spins freely. Not correct but it works and I am running 25 at the pump. The veins are gummed up and should be taken out and cleaned. One way to clean them is to take a file and just cuff them off to remove the glazing on them. If they do not drop down when spinning by hand they will not drop down when the pump s running. These are crude ways of fixing the problems but they have worked for me.

[BreezyHill]

Hi,

First question, did this model possibly have a gasket behind the plate that is removed to access teh bearings and vanes inside the pump chamber?

Second question, when I have the pump opened up, it is pretty obvious that the berrings are in very good shape and spin very freely. Also, if you grab the belt attached to the motor, you can spin the entire system very freely. However, when I tighten the bolts back down, the pump does not move. I have not hooked this up to elecricity because if the pump won't spin by hand, I do not care to tear up the motor.

Third, the vanes currently seem to be locked into their grooves, and I cannot get them to slide in and out by hand. Is this just because the centrifigal force is insufficient, or is it that the vanes are just locked in there from lack of use and in need of a big pile of penetrating oil or degreaser to work the things free?

#1 No...a gasket will separate the vane from the face plate an produce a major leak point for the unit and greatly reduce the obtainable vacuum reading. These units are machined to very tight tolerances. A normal gasket of 1/16th inch thickness will produce a leak that is like having an open tap.

#2 a very shinny bearing is great...but if there is any black dots on the balls or on the race then they a junk. Replace immediately. One tiny spec of steel can score the housing to as big a leak as adding a gasket.
If it is a M5 from that vintage those are likely asbestos vanes and should be discarded. Do not file, use a rotory grinder or any abrasive mechanical cleaning of these vanes as you can flake off parts of the vane. They should be replaced with Kevlar vanes or if you are looking for a long term maple pump then a metal vane should be made. If the unit was rebuilt then it should have a vane other than asb. These are usually a dark brown material like the old bacolite insulation board. These are fine and only a rotary polish head should be used to clean off debris.

Vanes should easily slide in and out of there pocket's. 3M scotch biscuits are the cleaning tool of choice to preserve the tolerances of vanes. Use a low speed or air setting on a air grinder to clean the vanes and the rotor. Do not use gasoline as it can soak into the vanes, penetrating oils work well or kerosene.
Never use degreaser as this will remove the coating on the housing and rotor and will lead to oxidation and early failure.

This is a very good pump...usually found on a balance tank with oilers on the two bearings. A Third oiler can be added to the inlet by way of a tee to accomplish flood oil to cool the unit for use in high vac production. I have a M3 in for rebuilding currently. This unit was purchased new in 1975 per the original owner. Vanes are stuck but turns freely.

If your unit was on a balance tank it is likely that there was moisture in the tank or in the water trap, that has rusted the vanes and rotor Clean the unit fully, removing all rust deposits. Coat all metal surfaces after cleaning with vac oil or at least WD40. When putting the unit back together be certain to coat the housing with some vac oil. Nothing sets back a good cleaning like running a pump dry.

If you need metal vanes let me know as I can make them.

Good Luck!

[wishlist]

Breezy , when you say no gasket are you referring to just this brand rotary vane pump ?
My Gast 3040 calls for a shim on the drive side .

[mmccallum]

Thought you might like to see the pics, though this is before I started cleaning 'er up.

10089100901009110092

[BreezyHill]

That is an oddity. The pic of the vanes with the nastiness in the bottom of the housing....all the vanes are retracted? Something was wrong with that pump. The bottom two vanes should have been out to the housing or nearly to the housing. I guess somebody could have come along and turned the unit by hand after it had sat for a while and the vanes went all the way back in but the two vanes at 11 and 5 o'clock positions are in further than rotor edge???
I would surmise that the water trap had a bunch of milk and water in it and it looks like they used sawdust to bed the cows. So it likely had two stuck vanes and the owner didn't realize or didn't care.

Great photo proof of why we must empty our water traps at the end of season and run the pump to force out any moisture before letting them sit for the next 9-10 months.

Did the housing have a wave?
Thanks for the Pics!

[maple maniac65]

Breezy , when you say no gasket are you referring to just this brand rotary vane pump ?
My Gast 3040 calls for a shim on the drive side .

So does my Gast 3040 but I have run it for ears without one. Like I stated in the post before this one what I did to clean it up was crude but I am not a machinest and have to work with what I have available. I have run that pump years now and it works great for me.

[BreezyHill]

Breezy , when you say no gasket are you referring to just this brand rotary vane pump ?
My Gast 3040 calls for a shim on the drive side .

Sorry the reply disappeared for some reason.

A gasket and shim are totally different. Shim is a spacer made of a metallic product so it will not crush. Example: if you need 3/10000 of an inch for clearance you put in one shim of that thickness. While a gasket at 1/16th inch or 625/ 10000 will seal the inside of the chamber from the outside air; thus making a sealed chamber. While some shims are built to seal a chamber they are still a spacer of a set thickness.

Now if you have a housing that is pitted from rust then you would want to take a use thin film of rtv to fill the pits to seal the face plate to the housing. And I mean film, and only use blue because you can see thru it to tell the depth of the film. red or black will be way to thick and clear you cant tell depth either. Blue that looks nearly clear is perfect. If it is the colored blue that will be like the red and black.

Great Question!!!

[wishlist]

Thanks Breezy, I do have to disagree on a shim being a metallic product. I've seen many shims that are plastic and color coded to easily identify various thicknesses. Shims used for motor alignment of course are steel, we used stainless .

[BreezyHill]

Thanks Breezy, I do have to disagree on a shim being a metallic product. I've seen many shims that are plastic and color coded to easily identify various thicknesses. Shims used for motor alignment of course are steel, we used stainless .

Sorry I was talking about pumps...plastic in low or no heat units of some kind would be fine...if you used plastic in a pump it would lead to a failure. The plastic would compress and contort and possibly leak into the chamber under the affects of the vacuum and the heat that these pumps can produce. Use a noncontact temp meter and checkout the temp on different parts of the pump. I have seen a pump hit 250 at the edge of the face plate. The center was only 200.

Add the number of stories of guys that used plastic oil lines to feed the dripper from the reclaimer and had them fail...ya...not a fan of plastic around the pump. Good old cooper for the drippers will dissipate heat and keep the oil flowin.

I took apart a toy truck and it hade those plastic shims in the axle drive motor. Pretty cool engineering.

Our tractor drives use stainless also. darn things are like $5 and it took a dozen to get the right clearance.

Great comment, you may have just saved somebody a real head ache! It never entered my mind that somebody might use a plastic shim or even wood on a motor. :)

[mmccallum]

Sorry the reply disappeared for some reason.

A gasket and shim are totally different. Shim is a spacer made of a metallic product so it will not crush. Example: if you need 3/10000 of an inch for clearance you put in one shim of that thickness. While a gasket at 1/16th inch or 625/ 10000 will seal the inside of the chamber from the outside air; thus making a sealed chamber. While some shims are built to seal a chamber they are still a spacer of a set thickness.

Now if you have a housing that is pitted from rust then you would want to take a use thin film of rtv to fill the pits to seal the face plate to the housing. And I mean film, and only use blue because you can see thru it to tell the depth of the film. red or black will be way to thick and clear you cant tell depth either. Blue that looks nearly clear is perfect. If it is the colored blue that will be like the red and black.

Great Question!!!

A friend of mine suggested using a piece of light cardboard as a gasket/shim.
I will be yanking those out and replacing, might just replace bearings for the Heluvit.
This pump was outside under an overhang for 15 years with no attention.
ALl that crud mostly wiped off the surface and the underneath was scrubed off with a wooden dowel.
Very little pitting at all, however, What is rtv? I am nto familiar with it.

[mmccallum]

That is an oddity. The pic of the vanes with the nastiness in the bottom of the housing....all the vanes are retracted? Something was wrong with that pump. The bottom two vanes should have been out to the housing or nearly to the housing. I guess somebody could have come along and turned the unit by hand after it had sat for a while and the vanes went all the way back in but the two vanes at 11 and 5 o'clock positions are in further than rotor edge???
I would surmise that the water trap had a bunch of milk and water in it and it looks like they used sawdust to bed the cows. So it likely had two stuck vanes and the owner didn't realize or didn't care.

Great photo proof of why we must empty our water traps at the end of season and run the pump to force out any moisture before letting them sit for the next 9-10 months.

Did the housing have a wave?
Thanks for the Pics!

Yeah, I turned it! I can get the vanes out, they are just lodged right now because of the dried oil and grease.

[BreezyHill]

RTV is a gasket material that you can get at tractor supply or auto supply stores. Comes in a tube like tooth paste. Clean the area you would apply the film onto with carb cleaner to degrease it. Then apply the film. If you need, send me a pm and I can pull apart a unit and takes pics of the process to illustrate.

[SadSams]

My DeLavel 76 vane pump has no gaskets.