CDL Super Seal Saddles

[spud]

I am using these saddles in my new woods. I have two options with these saddles. I can clamp them tight and then wire tie them or I could clamp them tight and use the screw. Has anyone had leaks with just wire tying them? I have 1000 of these things to put in this week. Thanks.

Spud

[steam maker]

Dont know if they r the same saddles but we used cdl saddles in our bush and havent had leaks. I made a tool outta channel locks to grip the bottom , squeeze them tight then wire tie it! Worked so far!!!

[western mainer]

I wire tied them after getting them tight and they sealed ok for me.
Brian

[PerryFamily]

Spud- I am using these saddles as well. While getting parts from a fairly large producer (24k taps) he said its what he used and suggested once ratcheted tight to wire tie them. He claimed most of the problems occur in the summer with expansion and contraction which now that I think of it probably causes most of the leaks we find .
Just a little guys 2¢

[PARKER MAPLE]

This subject brings me to a question for you experts. Anyone have wires ties over the summers heat were into there black pipe and create a leak. It's always been a fear of mine but I see a lot of people going that route. We switched from the wire ties to blk plastic zip ties a few years back because of this. But still use the wire for the saddle, the cdl saddle with the screws are working good for use there as well

PM

[spud]

Thank you everyone. I think I will hold off on the screws for now but I will have a bag of 100 in the sugar house just in case I spot a leak during the season.

Spud

[maplecrest]

Spud, the 3/4 I have no problem with and wire tie. The 1 inch I have a problem with and if the wire tie does not do the trick I use the bolts. Also try to put them in on a warm day like today.i have found with the 1 inch putting in on a cold day some do not seal well and need the bolts chasing leaks.

[BreezyHill]

Dont know if they r the same saddles but we used cdl saddles in our bush and havent had leaks. I made a tool outta channel locks to grip the bottom , squeeze them tight then wire tie it! Worked so far!!!
here the deer like to rub on them, I use the screw and don't have any problems. If I have one that leaks I add the screw.

All Others I use a set of water pump pliers to lock tight and go to the next one. I don't pull directly on the saddle with the laterial, I use rapid tie to adjust the lateral tension.

I use a screw gun to put on the screw. Set the ratchet stop and have at it.

Wire tires are just added attractions to the deer when they are rubbing on the lines.

[VT_K9]

We re-strung our lines last year and went with 1" mainline with supplemental 3/4" lateral mainlines. We used the CDL saddles and installed the bolt. This year we are going through an expansion and will be adding up to 170 taps using 1" mainlines. We will be using the bolts again. While I will agree the ties may keep costs lower, I don't want to have to worry about a leaky saddle wether there was a dimension change or an animal problem. The less I have to trouble shoot a leak, the more time I have to dream about another expansion.

Mike

[spud]

I changed my mind and went with the bolts. I did wire tie everything but then went back and bolted them all. I installed just under 1000 saddles this week and I never want to see a saddle again (haha). My new woods has 3000 taps with three taps per lateral line. I hope this will increase the GPT. Thanks again for all the info.

Spud

[BreezyHill]

Spud, Did you hear any of the saddles click when installing the bolts?

[spud]

Spud, Did you hear any of the saddles click when installing the bolts?

A few did click but not many. That told me I just fixed a vacuum leak. When installing the saddles I did use a channel lock to get as many clicks as possible. I hope I can continue running 27-28 inches of vacuum. Can't wait for the season to start. Got my new CDL releaser and a 2HP Goulds pump to pump my sap 3800 feet to my sugar house. I used 1 1/2 inch wet/dry with one inch mainlines and whips. All mainlines are very close to each other (about 75 feet). I am buying a 5HP Busch pump with 61 CFMs to run this new woods. I used 75 rolls of tubing for the job. I have about $30,000 invested in this set-up. My wife is giving me the eye so it better pay off.

Spud

[BreezyHill]

Spud, I also noticed that the bolt is worth the pennies...ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Nearly impossible unless you can hear a saddle leak to find them for me.
I totally understand "The Eye", but just remember the smile after the sap start rolling in is payback plus interest.

Never forget that farming is the only form of gambling that is legal in all 50 States.

[spud]

Spud, I also noticed that the bolt is worth the pennies...ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Nearly impossible unless you can hear a saddle leak to find them for me.
I totally understand "The Eye", but just remember the smile after the sap start rolling in is payback plus interest.

Never forget that farming is the only form of gambling that is legal in all 50 States.

Thanks BreezyHill

Spud

[PerryFamily]

Spud- A few questions
How many taps are in the new woods?
What is the total acres
How far is your wet/ dry conductor?
Did you do the entire setup yourself?
Just curious

[WMF]

Hi Spud ,

I am going to pile on with another question about your new woods.

Did you only use 75 500 foot rolls of tubing to get 3000 taps ? That is 40 taps per roll which is more than double what I have been able to do on my new installation which has been averaging about 18 taps per roll and 2 taps per lateral line. Must be a well populated stand !

The CDL Max-seal saddles are the best I have used and I try them all . The Lapierre Super saddles are good too if you wire them on.

[spud]

Spud- A few questions
How many taps are in the new woods?
What is the total acres
How far is your wet/ dry conductor?
Did you do the entire setup yourself?
Just curious

Total taps in the new woods is between 2800-3000. I will know for sure next week when the rest of the drops are in. The kids make the drops for me and I know they used 2000 tees so far.

I bought 60 acres that borders my property. According to the forest plan I have a maple stand that is 36 acres (80+ taps per acre). There is another small stand of about 2-300 taps that I did not set up. These trees would not run into my sap house. I do plan to fall tap these trees just for fun in the years to come.

The wet/dry lines are 1 1/2 inch and they are 2000 feet. The mainlines are very close to one another and that is just the way I wanted it. I want short lateral lines with three taps max. All main lines are one inch. I wanted all main lines to be 1 1/4 inch but Christmas is coming and I have 7 kids.:lol:

I wish I could tell you I did the main line set-up but I did not. My friend Matt Clark set up all the main lines and then I took over from there. Matt does an outstanding job and I would highly recommend him to anyone. The main line set-up was about $2.00 per tap but he charges by the hour. He had to cross a 100 foot canyon where the wet/dry lines are 30 feet in the air. My fingers and toes are crossed in hopes nothing happens in this section. He double wired everything. If not for this one section it would probably cost about $1.75 per tap for set-up on main line. This is only labor not pipe and fittings.

I used 75 rolls (500 foot) CDL tubing for the job. Yes 40 tap per roll is right. My main sugar woods was more like 30 taps per roll. I will be comparing the difference between both set-ups this coming season. I am buying a flow meter from Webb's so I will know my GPT on the new woods. If there is a 3-5 GPT difference then we will shorten all lateral line in the main woods next summer by running a new main line between the mains already there. I plan to use clear smart spouts for the first two years on the new set-up but after that I will only use CV2 spouts. The kids will be putting 6000 CV2 spouts on my drops during their Christmas vacation from school. This speeds up the tapping.

Spud

[WMF]

Thanks Spud,
The only way I would ever get numbers like that would be if I tapped every sapling down to about two inches ! I may need to move to Vermont.

[unc23win]

Spud has a some pretty dense woods indeed. I have one section that I got about 40-50 taps per roll. Having more main lines pays off for sure.

Speaking of saddles has anyone tried the Eratube saddle with sap inlet that is almost parallel (looks like maybe 20' angle) to the mainline? I was on the Eratube website and saw it it's hard to tell how they did it but they pull the lateral line then it runs along the mainline so there is no loop. I thought it looked interesting to say the least. I know Eratube makes a lot of fittings for Lapierre and CDL and probably others but I haven't seen this particular saddle I'm just curious. From the looks of it the Eratube site is under construction.

[PerryFamily]

Spud-
So does the $30k include everything? ( mainline, wire, tubing, outside labor, vac pump, tank.......)

right now your at $10/tap, I'm just curious.

[spud]

Spud-
So does the $30k include everything? ( mainline, wire, tubing, outside labor, vac pump, tank.......)

right now your at $10/tap, I'm just curious.

Yes all of what you listed plus having power installed to my sap house. That cost $2700.00 with Vermont Electric. Plus I bought a cross bow but I did not tell the wife. She thinks its all part of the sugaring.:)

Spud

[mellondome]

Yes all of what you listed plus having power installed to my sap house. That cost $2700.00 with Vermont Electric. Plus I bought a cross bow but I did not tell the wife. She thinks its all part of the sugaring.:)

Spud

How else would you get the line over the raven.?

[PerryFamily]

Thanks Spud. I know you keep excellent records and look forward hearing your production results.

[spud]

How else would you get the line over the raven.?

You wire tie the pipe to the wire while it is on the ground.

Spud

[GeneralStark]

I am likely using the CDL MaxSeal saddle in my expansion this season. Mainly a budget related decision but I do like the gasket on the MaxSeal.

When I was at CDL grabbing supplies today I did take a close look at both the MaxSeal and the MaxFlow and there is quite a difference in the gasket design. The MaxFlow has a larger ID, but not as good of a seal. The salesman suggested the maxflow is designed for longer laterals, while the max seal for shorter lats. with fewer taps, and higher vac.

[Moser's Maple]

so just for conversation, what do they consider as a long lateral?

[mellondome]

You wire tie the pipe to the wire while it is on the ground.

Spud

that was directed at needing a cross bow for sugaring.

[VT_K9]

so just for conversation, what do they consider as a long lateral?

I think when determining lateral length the goal is 5-7 taps and no more than 50 feet long. Beyond that number of taps you are likely longer than 50 feet. We use the maxflow saddles. I think we have a few runs with 8 or 9 taps and maybe one or two runs a little longer than 50 feet. Maybe the seal on the maxseals can handle a little more tension created by the longer runs. Either way the tension is likely reduced by weaving the lateral between trees.

Mike

[GeneralStark]

so just for conversation, what do they consider as a long lateral?

More than 50 ft, and more than 3 or 4 taps, according to the salesman I spoke to.

[GeneralStark]

I think when determining lateral length the goal is 5-7 taps and no more than 50 feet long. Beyond that number of taps you are likely longer than 50 feet. We use the maxflow saddles. I think we have a few runs with 8 or 9 taps and maybe one or two runs a little longer than 50 feet. Maybe the seal on the maxseals can handle a little more tension created by the longer runs. Either way the tension is likely reduced by weaving the lateral between tree.

What do you mean by "tension" on the saddle? You shouldn't have any tension on the saddle fitting.

[ennismaple]

Sounds like you'll be drowning in sap shortly Spud! I'm sure your new setup is a sight to see! I've generally figured it costs $10 per tap and every time I check it comes out close. We're at 264 new taps on about 7 rolls of tubing on a new slope we're hooking up so we've got similar density to yours. I'm probably at 50ft or less and 3.5 taps per lateral for most of the hill but along the edges I've been reaching for some extra trees that we won't get otherwise so we're more like 4 per lateral and longer on average.