Hell of a guy, that Jim Schumacher!

[asknupp]

Last night I had the opportunity of meeting Jim Schumacher and his wife. I've been in correspondence with Jim since last year when I purchased my first pan through him. I've had the pleasure of talking with him while he made my flue pan and he talked me through making my arch from scratch this off season. He has been patient and understanding and I feel he went out of his way to personally deliver my equipment rather than ship it through standard means. I honestly look forward to talking and doing business with him in the future. I believe his equipment is the up and coming so if your at the LEME take a good look at his booth.

P.S. Jim, I hope this earned me a hoodie.lol And maybe a new decal for my old pan. Kind of rubbed it off while cleaning it after this season.:lol:


9971

[JADavis]

Nice looking rig asknupp!

This past summer I called and got quotes from every maple manufacturer I knew of. The big manufacturers came in with prices that were all similar. The sunrise metal evaporators were surprisingly expensive and WAY overpriced for the quality. I got a quote from Jim at Smoky Lake and found the quality to be far above the rest and the value was fantastic. I took delivery of my new Smoky Lake evaporator and Smoky Lake auto drawoff yesterday. I will never buy an evaporator elsewhere. Jim and Angela treated me great, kept me posted on the progress of the equipment, they even sent pictures of the build when I asked for them (for our album).

The Smoky Lake booth at leme is by far the most interesting and 5 times the size of any other booth. Their Badgerland equipment looks interesting for the hobbiest. The most interesting item at the show was the Murphy Compensation Cup. They introduced it tonight at leme. It took me a second to get it, but the cup literally tells you where your hydrometer should be floating. Yes, I bought one, I don't know how syrup was ever made without one of these.

In short, I agree that Smoky Lake is the only way to go for maple equipment. Outstanding products, outstanding service, and outstanding people.

[Dennis H.]

Great looking setup that you got from Jim.

I got my hood and pre-heater from him a few years ago, top notch work.

When the time comes for new pans I know exactly who I will be calling. I just wish he did round bottom tanks.

[SapZilla]

Nice to see others have found out how great Smoky Lake is. When I met jim and the lovely angela a couple of autumn's ago I was very impressed. And my smoky Lake pans boil much harder then my old waterloo pans.

Big question, what is the murphy compensation cup?

[Marcus]

Look forward to using my new 2x4 continuous flow pan from Smokey Lake . Looks great.
Marcus Yoder

[Moser's Maple]

Big question, what is the murphy compensation cup?

Smokey lakes version of the accucup the maple guys sell
Smokey lake uses a brix thermometer instead traditional one. So all u do is match the brix of hydrometer to brix on thermometer for proper density

[lpakiz]

So does this make the compensation chart obsolete? As long as the floating hydrometer and the dial on the "brixometer" agree, everything is correct? At any temp?

[Moser's Maple]

From my understanding that a correct. If both match then u have proper density. Only thing I thought was strange was you calibrate brix thermometer on 32 degrees. Jim was a busy man so I didn't get a chance to get that full understanding.

[Marcus]

I can understand him being busy, great product at a great price.
Marcus Yoder

[DrTimPerkins]

Smokey lakes version of the accucup the maple guys sell
Smokey lake uses a brix thermometer instead traditional one. So all u do is match the brix of hydrometer to brix on thermometer for proper density

We have a couple of versions of the MapleGuys (MapleTrader.com sponsor) Accu-cup. We like them quite a lot and it is pretty much all we use at present. Made what was a 3-handed job into a more manageable 2-handed job.

Despite that, after seeing it, I bought one of the Smokey Lake Murphy Cups from Jim and Angela at LEME and will be giving a try next time we pack (or make) syrup. Interesting design and very nicely constructed.

[Tmeeeh]

What standard syrup density is the brix thermometer calibrated for 66.9 or something less. If I remember correctly the hydrotherms were calibrated for a lower density then 66.9.

[JADavis]

I never did buy the accucup just because we thought it a little pricy for what it did. But the murphy cup that Smoky lake has is a new revolution completely. For some reason I had a hard time wrapping my head around it at first but I think thats because it was so simple. Just the idea of not having to deal with a compensation chart and not even having to know the temperature is a releif. But as Dr Tim said, the construction is fantastic too. I saw several people walking around the show carrying these new cups, and when I talked to Jim yesterday he said they sold out of them. Hopefully jim can come in here and clarify the calibration question.

I am working in central WI later this week, hopefully I can stop by the smoky lake shop.

[asknupp]

Haha. That's why he was asking how people held there cups when testing.

[Birddog]

Is there somewhere online that I can see this new cup? I can't seem to find it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[adk1]

I am sure he will put it but he just released it

[DrTimPerkins]

Is there somewhere online that I can see this new cup? I can't seem to find it.

Here you go.

9977 9978 9979

[Dennis H.]

I need to get one of those.

[SapZilla]

Calling Jim right now...

[Schiefe4]

https://www.smokylakemaple.com/product/murphy-compensation-cup/

[adk1]

He is going to have allot of orders to fill!

[Schiefe4]

Anyone know what density syrup the thermometer is calibrated for?

[Birddog]

Oh wow - that is cool. I need to get one!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mellondome]

Looking at the dial, I would say 66.9

[SapZilla]

I got Jim to commit to jumping in on this thread tonight when he was done in the shop to give a detailed description of this new device and to answer any questions so ask them now.

I have mine ordered. He said it would be a bit over a month before he had more dials ready but has the cups in production right now.

[Tmeeeh]

This looks like a very useful item.

Would like to know what density the unit is calibrated for. I assume the red lines are for the hot and cold 60 degree) tests. The red line near the number 67 looks like it might point to about 66.8.
Another product to consider making would be a stand alone brix thermometer with a dual scale. (both F and brix on the same unit) Having both scales on the unit and not attached to a hydrometer cup would be useful mounted on a canning tank or a filter press tank. You would know when the syrup is hot enough to filter or can as well as how deep a hydrometer should float in the syrup in the tank.

[Jim Schumacher]

9982998399849985
The Murphy Compensation Cup has been a very exciting project for us. It was rather tough to keep under the cloak during the Provisional Patent Process. We were very excited when we got the green light to introduce it at the LEME last weekend.

The name "Murphy" came from the main inventer, as it is Angela's (my wonderful wife and business partner) maiden name. Angela is an extremely intelligent person and is very driven and dedicated to the maple industry.

This was a very challenging project to develop. We built the dial for the cup with a stem short enought that the hydrometer fits inside the inside of the cup while the dial is still very compact against the sides of the cup. We considered the full range of temperatures that a maple producer is likely to take a syrup sample; 20° Fahrenheit to 230° Fahrenheit. We fit the dial to the cup so that it was at a comfortable angle and so it fit as tightly to the cup's body as possible. We also thought that the dial should be able to be calibrated in case someone wanted to verify it's accuracy or if someone wanted to customize it.

The Murphy Compensation Cup comes calibrated to 66.9 BRIX. The producer does NOT need to know the temperature of their syrup sample. The producer does NOT need their compensation chart anymore. All you need to do is look at the dial on the Murphy Cup to instantly know, not only the compensation, but the actual brix increment where your hydrometer is to float if the sample is finished syrup. Furthermore, this cup tells the producer exactly how much too dense or how much too light their sample is. All they have to do is take the difference between the value on the dial and the value of the hydrometer.

For the sake of making the dial as intuitive as possible, we even put the red marks for "hot test" and for "cold test" on the dial which perfectly coinside with your hydrometer.

The blue mark on the dial represents 32°Fahrenheit and is used to check and adjust the calibration of this valuable new instrument. To calibrate the unit to perfect accuracy at the 66.9° BRIX, simply fill the cup with as much ice as it will hold and fill the void area with cold water. This ice water mix will become about 32° Fahrenheit (0°Celsius). When the needle stops moving it should settle on the blue mark on the dial of the Murphy Compensation Cup. If the needle does not rest on the blue mark, adjust the 6mm screw on the rear of the dial until it does. Calibration can also be done by bringing the cup full of water to a boil and adjusting the dial so the needle rests on the red mark near "59". The result will be the same, the former is just safer and more convenient.

The main construction of the cup consists of food grade 304 Stainless Steel. It is entirely TIG welded. The robust handle is fully machined and is large enough to be handled with a bulky glove. The handle also allows the cup to hang on any pans built by the major manufacturers.

We are working on some different variations of this special dial, one of which will be available for our bottlers.

Please see the literature attached, it may clarify some other questions about this instrument. Angela is rapidly updating the Web page for the Murphy Compensation Cup, so please check back on the website often for further info regarding this brilliant innovation. https://www.smokylakemaple.com/produ...pensation-cup/

[Dennis H.]

Thanks Jim for the explanation, It was a very cool idea that you and Ang came up with.
I can now tell you what my next new purchase will be!!

[unc23win]

Here is the link. https://www.smokylakemaple.com/product/murphy-compensation-cup/

FREE SHIPPING!

[mapledavefarm]

How long does it take the gauge to go from room temperature to finished syrup temperature? The only reason I ask is the dial scale ( 32 degrees to aproxamalty 220 degrees ) is quite large. My experience with dial gauges with a large scale is they tend to react to temperature change very slowly. Have you thought about using a digital gauge instead of the dial?

[Jim Schumacher]

Good question. Dial thermometers tend to move slowly when reacting to air temperature. However, dial thermometers are very responsive when reacting to liquid temperature. The Murphy Compensation Cup indicates your target BRIX before you can even get your hydrometer in it. We have found dial thermometers to be notably more accurate and consistent then most digital thermometers. The temperature range that the Murphy Compensation Cup measures and converts is 20° Fahrenheit to 230° Fahrenheit. The Murphy Compensation Cup displays it's value overy 100x faster then a hydrotherm.


How long does it take the gauge to go from room temperature to finished syrup temperature? The only reason I ask is the dial scale ( 32 degrees to aproxamalty 220 degrees ) is quite large. My experience with dial gauges with a large scale is they tend to react to temperature change very slowly. Have you thought about using a digital gauge instead of the dial?

[Jim Schumacher]

Thanks Dennis! We have taken a lot of early orders through the website in the past few days, a lot of producers called to add a Murphy Compensation Cup to their current evaporator order, and I have gotten a few questions via email. We have the cups in production right now and expect our large order of dials to be ready within five weeks.

ALSO, we are looking for dealers in Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia. Please email if your intrested.

Thanks, Jim


Thanks Jim for the explanation, It was a very cool idea that you and Ang came up with.
I can now tell you what my next new purchase will be!!

[adk1]

I just placed my order. I am #23!

[1tapattack]

I was at LEME learning about vacuum installation, and was able to walk around and see the different vendors. I saw the murphy cup and thought it was nicely built, but looked real similar to the accu-cup the maple guys (which sponsor this site) sells. yes it has a hydrotherm, but that's about all the difference I noticed. then I took a look at the autodraws and found out that Smokey Lake was dealer for Marcland before creating their own line of draw offs. Both units seem nice, but can't help to question business ethics of some, so I decided not to pursue a purchase of either product. This may seem out of line, but there should always be a opposing opinion in any discussion IMO

[buckeye gold]

Hmmm, wondering what a free enterprise society should look like if your not free to make your own version of a product.....so there should only be ford vehicles, one brand of Tvs, one brand of evaporator, etc.

[Super Sapper]

If you look closer there is a bigger difference that makes the Murphy easier to use. As far as ethics, was Marcland the first to make autodraws? If others make Maple syrup does that mean we shouldn't? Jim has been on this site for some time and has been very professional. The quality of his products are also as good as you will find.

[mapledavefarm]

Has anyone tried this hydro cup to see if it really works? Sorry but I have a hard time believing that the gauge can get an accurate temperature / brix reading fast enough to keep me from burning my pans up.

[1tapattack]

Hmmm, wondering what a free enterprise society should look like if your not free to make your own version of a product.....so there should only be ford vehicles, one brand of Tvs, one brand of evaporator, etc.
free enterprise is fine, but business ethics is also a key. seems like the wheel is constantly being reinvented, but this version is better. business ethics would tell me not to ask "what hand you hold your hydrometer with" on a maple educational forum sponsored by the company that design you're going to copy. Business ethics tells me not to become a dealer of an autodraw off company get 3 units, sell 2, send the other for out sourcing, and then launch your own product in direct competition. you wait, refractometers could be next?? anyways, Smokey has good quality stuff i.e the steam tray, looks like it would work pretty good, but you hear nothing about that, and I think that would be a selling point IMO

If you look closer there is a bigger difference that makes the Murphy easier to use. As far as ethics, was Marcland the first to make autodraws? If others make Maple syrup does that mean we shouldn't? Jim has been on this site for some time and has been very professional. The quality of his products are also as good as you will find.
aren't you the guy that Smokey Lake threatened to sue with a slander lawsuit because of pan issues?????

[SapZilla]

free enterprise is fine, but business ethics is also a key. seems like the wheel is constantly being reinvented, but this version is better. business ethics would tell me not to ask "what hand you hold your hydrometer with" on a maple educational forum sponsored by the company that design you're going to copy. Business ethics tells me not to become a dealer of an autodraw off company get 3 units, sell 2, send the other for out sourcing, and then launch your own product in direct competition. you wait, refractometers could be next?? anyways, Smokey has good quality stuff i.e the steam tray, looks like it would work pretty good, but you hear nothing about that, and I think that would be a selling point IMO

aren't you the guy that Smokey Lake threatened to sue with a slander lawsuit because of pan issues?????

Before you accuse anyone of copying anyone, let's make sure you know how to uset the brand new instrument that Smoky Lake introduced. So tell me the steps you take to use the accu cup. Then I'll tell you how to use the Murphy cup. Go ahead, you start hotshot.

[SapZilla]

free enterprise is fine, but business ethics is also a key. seems like the wheel is constantly being reinvented, but this version is better. business ethics would tell me not to ask "what hand you hold your hydrometer with" on a maple educational forum sponsored by the company that design you're going to copy. Business ethics tells me not to become a dealer of an autodraw off company get 3 units, sell 2, send the other for out sourcing, and then launch your own product in direct competition. you wait, refractometers could be next?? anyways, Smokey has good quality stuff i.e the steam tray, looks like it would work pretty good, but you hear nothing about that, and I think that would be a selling point IMO

aren't you the guy that Smokey Lake threatened to sue with a slander lawsuit because of pan issues?????
Actually, I know you are clueless because the Smoky Lake instrument does not have a hydrotherm.

[buckeye gold]

I apologize to everyone, I should not have posted my comment and started an argument. I for one have put a Murphy cup/ accu-cup on my wish list. I think they are both intriguing ideas. I want to see how they work for those who buy now and see what the reviews say. Producers still need to be vigilant that their hydrometers are correct, this cup will not compensate for an out of calibration hydrometer. I have actually gotten pretty good at developing a system where my cup sample is very close to the same temp each sample. I made a copper cup and it I think it holds heat better than the stainless cups and makes my readings more consistent. I use a digital probe that easily fits in the cup without interfering with the hydrometer.

[Moser's Maple]

Let's keep it nice guys

[SapZilla]

I agree. Lets keep it nice. BUT, I think we are dealing with someone who has a specific motive against Smoky Lake. In fact I dare to bet 1tapattack is a competitor of Smoky Lake, I just don't think anyone could really be that ignorant, sorry, mislead.

[JADavis]

I agree. Lets keep it nice. BUT, I think we are dealing with someone who has a specific motivery against Smoky Lake. In fact I dare to bet 1tapattack is a competitor of Smoky Lake, I just don't think anyone could really be that ignorant, sorry, mislead.

I agree completely. I also doubt he was at leme, it sounds like silly propaganda from a very poor perspective.

Anyway, I hate to see threads go this way on any forum, it's too bad. But we have to deal with every type of person anywhere we go, so let's try to move on.

The fact is that Smokky lake is on the upswing with innovative high quality equipment. I look forward to working with Jim for my whole maple career.

[Super Sapper]

I am not the one with a pan problem with Smokey Lake, that is super sapper with all small case. My understanding of the Murphy Cup is that it is just a thermometer with the correct brix on the dial instead of temp. numbers. This eliminates looking up the chart to see what the proper brix is for that temp. A free standing probe would be nice to use for bottling as I draw off a little heavy and adjust when filtering and bottling.

[JADavis]

The Murphy Cup is a brilliant idea, I wish I could have thought of it. It was definitely worth patenting, otherwise every manufacturer would copy it for sure.

It seem a little harder to build then just replacing the scale of a thermometer. I don't know where you could find a stem that darn short, it's only 1/4" at the most, it doesn't even stick into the cup.

Jim said he would have instruction manuals ready for these cups within a few weeks, so anyone who picked one up at leme like I did, email or call and they will send them out when ready. I hope the manual is as nice as the one I got with my auto-draw-off (see the pictures below). It is awesome, and very professional. Those systems are in a class of their own, very nice drawoff.

99889987

[mapledavefarm]

Not trying to be a pain but has anyone tried this thing? Usually when a new product is developed by a manufacture it is tested for years before being released. Since this product is being shipped without directions tells me that very little testing has been done. I am interested but very skeptical on this purchase. Will one of you who has one please do some testing for us.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I agree. Lets keep it nice. BUT, I think we are dealing with someone who has a specific motive against Smoky Lake. In fact I dare to bet 1tapattack is a competitor of Smoky Lake, I just don't think anyone could really be that ignorant, sorry, mislead.
so much for "lets keep it nice"

[Schiefe4]

Not trying to be a pain but has anyone tried this thing? Usually when a new product is developed by a manufacture it is tested for years before being released. Since this product is being shipped without directions tells me that very little testing has been done. I am interested but very skeptical on this purchase. Will one of you who has one please do some testing for us.

It's nothing new. Jim did some math put the compensation chart on a dial for a thermometer, calibrated that thermometer and started selling it. I think math and thermometers have been around for a while.

[mapledavefarm]

This is different though, I was told that its 100x faster than a hydrotherm.........

[Schiefe4]

Simply put it's an acc-u-cup where the gauge is the compensation chart reading brix instead of temperature. He took the step out of converting the temperature on the compensation chart and put it on his dial for syrup at 66.9° brix.

[mapledavefarm]

Except its 100x faster than the acc-u-cup supposedly....

[Schiefe4]

Yes because instead of needing three hands for a cup with thermometer, compensation chart and hydrometer, you only need two hands for the hydrometer and cup with calibrated gauge that is both the thermometer/compensation chart (and maybe your brain for some simple math to figure out how much above/below brix you are) I think too many people are overthinking how simple this product is.

[mapledavefarm]

Your missing my point. I questioned the ability of this gadget to take an accurate reading of hot syrup after sitting in the cold. The manufacture replied "its 100x faster than a hydrotherm" in this thread. Sorry but I find that answer a bit cocky and with the thermometer stem not protruding into the area where the hot syrup is.... Doubtful

[JADavis]

He never said it was 100 times faster then a accucup, in fact he never compared it to that device that I have seen. Where did he ever use that term. Please show us?! He said it was 100 times faster then a hydrotherm, and after using a hydrotherm in years past I consider that to be a conservative figure. I take it you don't know what a hydrotherm is, but they take FOREVER to balance and settle. By the time a hydrotherm stops moving I worry that the syrup is starting to stratify.

[JADavis]

with the thermometer stem not protruding into the area where the hot syrup is.... Doubtful

Again, NOBODY ever said that. I SAID that the stem does not protrude into the cup at all. It is however in the syrup.

I wish I had more time to heat some syrup up and play with it. But, I did fill it with hot water and the dial responded in an instant, no more then 2 seconds. Same when I immediately poured in cold drinking water.

I agree, temperature and math have been proven in the past. And do you REALLY think the manufacturer didn't do any testing?

1 more thing- THE equipment I bought from smoky lake is the FIRST to come with any instructions whatsoever. I bought a hobby RO that had a half sheet of hand writing from a different manufacturer. I've bought a ton of other equipment in the past too from pretty much every other manufacturer- virtually no instructions. For Smoky Lake to build a manual for a hydrometer cup is pretty dang good.

[mapledavefarm]

I give up.... Go ahead continue drinking the kool-aid. Please just give the rest of us a honest opinion of how this works, when time permits.

[psparr]

Funny how all the Debbie Downers only have a few posts on here...?

[mapledavefarm]

Not nearly as funny as the " experts " here have only made syrup for a couple years. Heck even the manufacture in question wasn't even making maple equipment a few years ago.

My Guess is someone (like me) comes on here with a different opinion and is run out of town before they can add to a discussion. like I said go ahead drink the Kool-Aid I am out of here.

[Schiefe4]

Not nearly as funny as the " experts " here have only made syrup for a couple years. Heck even the manufacture in question wasn't even making maple equipment a few years ago.

My Guess is someone (like me) comes on here with a different opinion and is run out of town before they can add to a discussion. like I said go ahead drink the Kool-Aid I am out of here.

If facts based on proven science and math are Kool-Aid then fill up my cup.

[psparr]

I'm not drinking anyones kool-aid. I'm just not judging others. Simply stating facts.

[Father & Son]

Everyone needs to let this go! This type of banter is why most forum's aren't worth being on. The 2 maple forums that most of us frequent are very informative and this type of crap isn't wanted or needed. The most important thing we are missing here is the Accu-cup is an option as is the Murphy cup. Lets compare this to the reverse flow syrup pan and the cross flow syrup pan. They are an option, personal preference is arrived at after you have the chance to TRY both and compare pros and cons. They both do an excellent job. Positive and constructive comments are always welcome, keep negativity to yourself. Let's move on!

P.S. I'll get down off my soapbox now

[n8hutch]

This tread has gotten way off topic, The Original posters thread was simply to say he had a good experience with Smokeylake & Jim Schumacher , It was never implied or intended to Imply that anyone else was not as good to deal with, nor at anytime did it attempt to slander anyone, I personally have never met Jim or Either of the Chris's from the Maple guys, but I have spoken with them all on the phone and they have all been great to talk to. I don't think any of them would approve of this and would probably prefer it to end

[1tapattack]

ok moving on from what I have for an opinion here is my question then.
in temp reading of the accu cup a digital thermometer is used.
say in reheating syrup a digital or regular thermometer is used. now I know on an evaporator a dial thermometer is used, but the evaporator is for the most part kept at a constant temp with a little fluctuation. now if used this same dial thermometer on the murphy cup could this throw off the calibration with the constant temp fluctuations between hot and cold. I now of producers around me that will check their dial thermometer before every boil and change it before the day.
my other question is will this react quick enough for density off the evaporator or finishing. I getting mixed answers of when exactly to utilize the cup. i understand the matching the brix from his thermometer to hydrometer, but you are so dependent on the calibration accuracy of the dial thermometer.
BTW I'm not a competitor, just a consumer. A long time watcher of this site and somebody that's new to maple in my own operation, but have had a chance to be apart of other operations in the past. All I have is many questions, views and opinions some may be different but think they are valuable to any discussion.
As for LEME
pizza was passed around friday night
roast beef sandwich saturday for lunch
Dr. Tim Perkins from UVM Proctor had a white button up shirt on Friday night
and a guy named Jim checked me in and gave me a name tag in a blue holder and had sugarhill on it.

[asknupp]

Well said n8hutch. This has turned into a Ferguson, MO riot and not entertaining at all.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Having questions and concerns about a new product isn't bad. Usually a person wants to educate themselves about something before they go off and do it or buy a product.
Sure it sounds like Jim did his homework but for myself I want to see some real time testing on maple syrup.
Here's a chance for The Doc to do it this coming season.
Questioning authority like questioning a new product if done in a proper manner there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Its when "some one" says something and every believes its, that's not good ie: politicians. I question my Electrical inspectors all the time but in a way that doesn't piss them off and they think about the issue at hand.