Sap ladder with stars or double pipe ladder?

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

Okay guys looking for alittle insight on what might work better in a woods for me. I have previously used sap ladders to lift about 4ft, but this lift will be about 10-12ft in order to get sap closer to a road and more accessable. I was thinking about using the standard 6 star lift with 3 sets of ladders, and lifting sap from about 150 taps. But, I was wondering if a double pipe ladder of some sort would work better. I want to do this on a low budget kindof, i.e. no fancy reverse slope releasers or lifting tanks like cdl has. Any experience on how the double pipe ladder would work vs. standard ladder? I have this system on a Surge sp11.
Thanks guys.

[sapman]

I started with stars in my woods, then the rest used 2 pipe ladders. The stars seemed more consistent, I think. But the 2 pipes were less messy, and probably in the end the results were pretty identical. Either way, an undesirable way to move sap if there's any way around it. I think I have better success with my almost flat main lines, but it's really hard to quantify.

[PARKER MAPLE]

Do you have any pictures to share of the double pipe ladder? I dint think I've seen one of these, if I have then I have forgot about it.

[maple flats]

I don't have any pictures, but I copied mine from a research paper comparing the star method with single pipe and double pipe. I've never used the star method.
For double pipe, in 3/4 or 1" mains, I put a T at the low end of the upstream main, then a 6" piece of 3/4" tubing off each side outlet, then a T, straight thru to a drain on one side and an elbow on the opposite side, and the side outlet and elbow each point straight up to vertical. I then have an elbow, they both join to 1, in either 3/4" or 1" , which ever the main was at the bottom. In 1 vertical line I have a ball valve to adjust if needed, but they rarely need much adjusting. I usually start with the valve open slightly and in the mid season, on my first reag good flow day, I open enough to get good flow up the verticals. I don't usually change them again until cleaning the tubing. You say up to 12', my biggest climb is 9-10', but I have no doubt 12 will work. Just realize, any sap ladder causes a loss of vacuum. However, my thought is, lower vacuum is better than no sap from that section of woods.

[BreezyHill]

I think the key factor that others have missed is that you have an sp11. This is a good pump for running the number you have but the issue is going to be how many inches of vacuum are you running. If you are running at 15" of vac then you will need to stay with the star system.

Reason one is that it takes more gases from the trees or leaks in the system to get a larger pipe to lift additional height. This is why air injection works to clear the ladders and does not negatively affect vacuum readings past the ladder as long as there is only the amount of air introduced as is needed to keep the system clear.

I use multiple stars and single line risers o bring around 400 taps to the sugar house. I have a total of 8 ladders. The shortest is around 8' and the tallest is 18'. I run 28+ of vac.
There are 7 that are in series to elevate thru a total of 112' of risers. I don't have time to haul sap so I use vacuum to do the work for me.
The single lines are in the process of being redesigned as they are not working as I wish. Last season was the first year using single lines and we have had ladders since the late 1970's. Single lines were to inefficient at moving the sap consistently.

The science of a ladder is what you want. The sap moves fastest on top of a bubble of gas. In a small line, 5/16 it is very easy for the bubble to support a column of sap. In larger lines like 1" and 3/4" it is much more difficult to keep the sap from dropping around the sides of the bubble as friction and gravity pull the sap from on top of the bubble.

For the amount that you are currently using I would stay with two six way stars. The way to attach the risers will be different than standard. After you have studied ladders long enough you will see something that is quite unusual. This is when the ladder will actually become out of balance and it will cycle sap up one riser and down the opposite riser. The sap is moving so fast up one riser it shots across the star and forces down the opposite side. While neat to watch this is not a good way to get sap moving to the sugar house.

To prevent this I attach lines to one side of a spider and cap off the other when ever possible. Since you are talking 150 taps you will need between 8-9 risers. My tallest ladder of 18' has the most risers...18 plus a 1" semi dry line. Semi because it does pull some sap every few seconds, but the spiders are conducting way more sap. I also have an air injector at each ladder incase of a flood of the system or to just check the vac levels with a tool my dad built to adjust the ladder injectors. Usually the system works very well with no additional injection after the furthest ladder. The sap all runs to the ladders at 2% slope and I only pull off the bottom and into the top of the receiver main.

My biggest concern on the double pipe is that the larger the riser the longer it will take to thaw any sap that freezes in the ladder. I have seen it take several extra hours on a semi cloudy day for my 1" and 3/4" riser to thaw; while the 5/16 risers are quick and easy to thaw on those days. It really sucks when the big risers pack slush at the top where they connect to the other main. Solid ice seems to thaw faster than packed slush. Think it has to do with the air pockets.

I am not a fan of black risers as I want to see what is happening. The last 700' of mains to the sugar house on the ladder lines have been black for ever but I plan on adding a blue conductor line to drop my day time sap temp for the late season runs. I need the black to thaw the lines faster over the brook, but the sun cooks them in late season.

Let me know what pics you need and I will dig them out.

I have several different test ready to go to see which works the best lifting for next season. Always looking to improve.

Remember a major factor in functional ladders is balance. You may need to rotate a star's tee to get a balanced flow from the main to the star's risers. If one line gets the majority of the bubbles the others will flood and be slow movers. I like equal flow on all risers. This is best adjusted during peak flow of your run. After I have a star adjusted I have never had to readjust them. Injectors are pretty much the same.