Timber Framing Questions

[stevenh]

Hi all, I am considering a new sugarhouse and would like to go with a timber frame using the ash in my woodlot. This is in Ontario and my local building official admits he knows little about timber frame. On his advice I have contacted an engineering firm about it. The engineer has told me what he thinks needs to happen, which is get the lumber graded and get engineered drawings to submit for a building permit. He also says I would have to get the lumber graded first to make sure they meet the requirements before engineering the plan??? I am wondering how that is supposed to work if I don't have any dimensions to go with. This is just the first opinion I have gotten and will look for others. Does anyone have any experience with this in Ontario? Of course all this adds up $$$. If the building weren't going to be in plain site I would skip the whole permit process...Thanks,Steven

[BreezyHill]

Steven, Grading of the wood takes into account the knots and the way it was sawn. Since you are working with beams this is less of a concern as you are using bulk and area to produce strength. Where as if a 2x6 is milled with the grain up and down rather than at a quarter turn the strength of the lumber is less.

There were some older books that friends have used to design timber frame buildings from. I would check on line for timber frame designs that would fit you needs rather than having a designer engineer a new structure...unless you cant find one to fit your needs.

The world is a different place now days...to get enough business firms are sending clients to other related businesses to get themselves more future referrals.

I did a timber frame design search on bing and found several free software programs.

Good Luck!
Ben

[unc23win]

Bummer in PA we don't have to have permits for agricultural buildings. I am surprised Ontario doesn't have something similar. There are a few people on here with timber frames. Maybe you can get plans from one of them. GeneralStark built his last year. He probably will reply to you he is a very nice guy, but here is a link to his project. http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?21476-A-New-Sugarhouse-is-Born&highlight=sugarhouse+born

[TrentonMaple]

I checked out a few books from the library on timber framing. I'm planning on building a barn this spring. Like you, I have quite a few tall, straight, massive ash trees on my property and I had considered logging them and using a chainsaw mill to mill my own beams. After reading those books, I think the skill required to accurately complete the joinery might be a little out of my league. I'm leaning now towards some of the pre-milled assembly kits that can be found online. I think Country Carpenters is where I'll likely get my barn from.

[GeneralStark]

Hi all, I am considering a new sugarhouse and would like to go with a timber frame using the ash in my woodlot. This is in Ontario and my local building official admits he knows little about timber frame. On his advice I have contacted an engineering firm about it. The engineer has told me what he thinks needs to happen, which is get the lumber graded and get engineered drawings to submit for a building permit. He also says I would have to get the lumber graded first to make sure they meet the requirements before engineering the plan??? I am wondering how that is supposed to work if I don't have any dimensions to go with. This is just the first opinion I have gotten and will look for others. Does anyone have any experience with this in Ontario? Of course all this adds up $$$. If the building weren't going to be in plain site I would skip the whole permit process...Thanks,Steven

What size building are you hoping to build? Do you plan on cutting the frame yourself or would you hire a timber framer to do it? Is the issue here that the "building official" needs to see some plans to issue a permit?

I suspect your first mistake was to call an engineering firm. Unless this is going to be some massive and complex structure there isn't too much to worry about structurally with a Timber Frame if it is done correctly. This gets back to the question of who is going to do the work. You would likely be better off contacting a timber frame firm in your area and get their advice. Engineers just look at their books and plug in numbers to equations to determine if something is structurally sound and don't really know much about building. I was involved in a project where the engineers specified 12x12 quarter sawn white oak because that's what the book told them. We said wtf? Not gonna happen. Had to go with engineered laminated beams instead.

Most of the structure in a timber frame comes from the correct size timbers and proper joinery in the right locations. Anything can be done, but the trick is finding someone who knows how to do it, and most engineers don't know how to timber frame.

[stevenh]

General I used your sugarhouse thread as a guide as I would like something similar. Yes the building official needs a plan to be able issue a permit. I have been in contact with another firm that does timber framing and am awaiting a reply. I haven't committed anything to the engineering firm yet. If it was stick frame I could draw up a little plan myself and give it the building official, he could edit it and make suggestions but with the timber frame he said he won't know what to do if the wood has no stamp on it.

[GeneralStark]

My sugarhouse is 14'x24', so if you are looking at something similar for size and design, you should be fine with 8x8s. With ash you would definitely be fine, if that's what you are able to use. I used pine 8x8s and it is overbuilt, but that is my style. We are pretty lucky here in New England because most town administrators know that timber frames are solid with little to worry about, assuming we are aren't talking about massive structures. All you have to do is walk into a timber frame and you know it is solid.

[Starting Small]

This is the thread I started when I was building my timber frame. It shows the progress from logs to structure. Hope it is helpful
-Dave

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?21411-14-X-20-Post-and-beam-build.-Updates-with-my-progress.