3/16 vs vacuum pump?

[nicholastzito]

To make it easier I'm putting this into a new thread.

Our new sugarhouse is on the top of a slight hill. 3% slope, away from the sugarhouse (of course). The entire run of 200 potential taps is in an area of about 5-6 acres. The longest horizontal distance from the sugarhouse is roughly 600', with a vertical drop of 18.' Beyond this the grade drops considerably (40-50'+). There are more tap-able trees down the hill for when we decide to expand.

My question is, would it be more effective (more sap) to run 3/16 down to the bottom of the hill for natural vacuum and then pump it back up to the sugarhouse?

Or run a vac line down to the bottom of the hill to my releaser and suck the sap to that holding tank before pumping it up again to the sugarhouse?

My understanding is that the 3/16 will only generate vacuum once it's flowing, whereas the pump will pull even on a mediocre day.

Does anyone have experience with these?

[psparr]

Other than the lines being frozen, my 3/16 didnt stop.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Forum Fiend v1.2.7.

[Sugarmaster310]

I heard that even on slow days that 3/16 will still pull a good amount of vacuum. And i have also heard it doesn't. I, myself just put in about 5 rolls of 3/16 to try out. I hope it will create vacuum even on slow days cause i rather not buy a pump. Anyone know the real answer??

[BreezyHill]

[QUOTE=nicholastzito;259799]
My question is, would it be more effective (more sap) to run 3/16 down to the bottom of the hill for natural vacuum and then pump it back up to the sugarhouse?

QUOTE]


Nick, You are right. There needs to be a column of sap in the 3/16 for the vacuum to be pulled after running down hill for a drop of at least 30' in elevation.

On a day that is cloudy and 35 degrees you will likely not get enough flow to start that column to pull your vacuum, while on a 34 degree cloudy day with my rebuilt dairy pump we are running a descent amount and at 36 and cloudy we are running very well.

There is yet another scenario you may have over looked that I employ.

Over half of my main sugar bush s below my sugar house as well. From the lowest point we have a drop in elevation of nearly 70'. When the temp on a sunny day hits 28 degrees the vacuum pumps come on and 31 on a cloudy day. All of our sap runs thru the mainlines to the sugar house.

There is 112' of riser on sap ladders to get from the lowest point of the property to the sugar house. At the releaser we run 28+" and at the furthest tap we are not less than 24". I am redoing a couple of the ladders to get better vacuum beyond them. My tallest ladder is 18' shortest as of last season was 6' to get from a small lateral to the top of a 14' ladder.

3/16 is a great tool to use for those with tremendous slope and elevation change; but for the majority of producers the use of a vacuum pump will out yield natural vacuum when you calculate in the days that were not quite, good enough to get the sap started, to produce the natural vacuum that would have turned a poor day into an average day.

The other part of the puzzle that is often over looked is the dramatic change in volume between the 3/16 and the 5/16 lines. Remember when comparing flow of tubing that it takes nearly 3 3/16 tubing to equal on 5/16 (2.78). When some one says my 5/16 was running just over half full but my 3/16 was running a full tube...the 5/16 at the same slope will have more gallons per minute of capacity.

Weighting all the alternatives is a task that takes time...but never forget to factor in the time it takes to run equipment. This is one small factor that forced us to install ladders in our tubing system. Even thou I have a tank truck with a huge pto pump...I still don't have the time to collect tanks of sap when I can ladder it right to the sugar house.

If you need pics of ladders let me know. Last season was a poor season due to the weather for us. Ladder lines were running very well as they are protected from the wind. Back in 2013 we averaged .47 gallons syrup per tap. Last season we were just under .3. Trees that caught the wind were slow to no runners and account for 40% of all taps last season. This season we are expanding into more protected parts of the bush and will be adding another two ladders.

Ben

[GeneralStark]

He already has a thread on sap ladders:

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?23934-Sap-ladder-help

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

If it was me and I was on a limited budget and was looking at less than 500 taps, I would do the 3/16. No releaser or vacuum pump to buy and maintain. If you go over the lip of your hill and to the bottom, you will have lots of fall to create high vacuum. Others probably know more about this than I do. I only tap 8000 and make my living producing syrup.

[ryebrye]

I heard that even on slow days that 3/16 will still pull a good amount of vacuum. And i have also heard it doesn't. I, myself just put in about 5 rolls of 3/16 to try out. I hope it will create vacuum even on slow days cause i rather not buy a pump. Anyone know the real answer??

The "real answer" is - it depends. If you have a good slope and no leaks, you should be able to maintain a good vacuum even on slow days. There is no pump, so you have to be very diligent in ensuring no leaks.

The lines will eventually drain if you have a long enough spell of warm weather between freezes. When the lines start up again, it takes a little while to establish vacuum again.

I've thought about getting a cheapie little diaphragm pump to put on a mainline to help get the vacuum established faster.

[brookledge]

One thing to remember about the 3/16 is even if you have a significant drop in grade 30 feet or more, the only taps getting the full effect are the ones at the end. By the time you get to the low end the vacuum Wil be drastically lower
vs. a vacuum pump will put the full vacuum on all taps
Keith

[Machinist67]

I installed 3/16 last year and my GPT was 25.7 and I missed the first week of the season. This was a new bush so that does have an effect on the results.
You need to have 30ft of drop from your lowest tap not from your highest tap. This way the lower tap and every tap above it will have theoretical perfect vacuum for your elevation. looking forward to this coming year as I will be changing some of my runs.

[unc23win]

[ You need to have 30ft of drop from your lowest tap not from your highest tap. This way the lower tap and every tap above it will have theoretical perfect vacuum for your elevation.[/QUOTE]

Now that makes more sense.