First time using tubing--Mainline question

[rayjavu]

This fall we are putting in our first tubing system and have some really basic questions.
The big one is:
How exactly do we install the mainline?
Do we stretch the mainline first then stretch the wire then twist wire the two together?
If so, a little more explanation would be really appreciated.
If the sequence is different than what I've stated, please explain.

Also, what's involved in side pulling the main to other trees as a way to tension the line.

Thanks for the help.

Ray

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Pull your wire first and pull it tight. Really really tight like a banjo string. The wire should be sloped properly (minimum 2%). Side tie the wire to make it even tighter. Make sure any curves are just that...curves not corners. When the wire is all up and tight and properly sloped, pull your pipe through under the wire. Attach the pipe at one end of the wire and stretch it tight to the other end. Now go back and wire tie it a bit loosely every 4 feet or so. Check the whole length to be sure everything is where you want it. Now go back and wire tie the entire length. I put my wire ties about 10 inches apart but I have very limited slope. Some get away with less ties. As you wire tie, you will pull the tube into the curves formed when you side tied the wire. This will tighten the tube even more.

[lpakiz]

And when tightening wire or pipe, pull and anchor the sharpest curves into line first, leaving the shallowest curves till last. Those shallow side ties will REALLY tighten things up.
To get tight side ties, first fasten the side tie wire to the main wire. Then pass the spool behind the anchor tree and drape it back over the mainline wire. Then push mainline wire into corner with your waist or hip. When satisfied, cut side tie wire off of spool and fasten the second end back onto the mainline. Oh, and you should string a piece of old lateral line onto the side tie wire to protect the anchor tree.

[BreezyHill]

Now to make life easier go to your local high tensile fence supplier. You are looking for a few items...besides a good high tensile wire.
Item #1 Drive Hook http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drive-Hooks-and-Drop-Wire-Hooks-/171471131459?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ec79d343

This is installed into the end trees to attach the support wire and the tension grip that will be attached to the mainline.

Item # 2 Gallagher Rapid Tightener. One tightener is needed for one wire. Tighten them with a 1/2" t handle. 9830

To side tie if needed use the same product used to keep lateral lines from pulling on the saddles and creating leaks...rapid tie from CDL.

The line is stretched for not more than 3% and in 500' sections at a time. Some brands of pipe will elongate if over stretched so don't over stretch the pipe. When it is stretched, lash it to the wire. When stretched to 3%, lash at 18" for support.

Need some pics let me know.
Good Luck!
Ben

[1tapattack]

Now to make life easier go to your local high tensile fence supplier. You are looking for a few items...besides a good high tensile wire.
Item #1 Drive Hook http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drive-Hooks-and-Drop-Wire-Hooks-/171471131459?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ec79d343

This is installed into the end trees to attach the support wire and the tension grip that will be attached to the mainline.

Item # 2 Gallagher Rapid Tightener. One tightener is needed for one wire. Tighten them with a 1/2" t handle. 9830

To side tie if needed use the same product used to keep lateral lines from pulling on the saddles and creating leaks...rapid tie from CDL.

The line is stretched for not more than 3% and in 500' sections at a time. Some brands of pipe will elongate if over stretched so don't over stretch the pipe. When it is stretched, lash it to the wire. When stretched to 3%, lash at 18" for support.

Need some pics let me know.
Good Luck!
Ben
so i just completed a 500 foot line and I wasn't able to stretch it that much!!!!! holy cow I had a hard enough time getting 5 feet of stretch on my cdl HD mainline with wire. at 3% I would have had to stretch 15 feet!!! :o how do you even do that???? man I hope that line is going to be ok. don't really want to go back and fix. I also thought you used hooked couplers to connect to main line wire, but you say I need that rapid strap instead?? this seems more complicated to me by the minute

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Breezy, With the tighteners as pictured, how do you attach the pipe without creating a sag or a bump as the tube goes by the tightener?

[unc23win]

so i just completed a 500 foot line and I wasn't able to stretch it that much!!!!! holy cow I had a hard enough time getting 5 feet of stretch on my cdl HD mainline with wire. at 3% I would have had to stretch 15 feet!!! :o how do you even do that???? man I hope that line is going to be ok. don't really want to go back and fix. I also thought you used hooked couplers to connect to main line wire, but you say I need that rapid strap instead?? this seems more complicated to me by the minute

I am sure yours is fine as long as you stretch it out some and are able to eliminate sags. Run the wire first, then tie the line to it, then side tie if you desire. Many runs can be done without side ties. Side ties can be done any number of ways as long as you don't disturb the slope of the line. lpakiz gave a pretty good description. My advice is try it your way and see how you like it as long as you have no sags. Don't go buy or do anything more than main line and wire at first.

We all accomplish the same goal in our own way.

[lpakiz]

Not to go against Breezy, as he has tons of experience at this, but I didn't use any tighteners, just a hook on each end, screwed in the end tree. I feel that you can get the line more than tight enough side tieing as described. Just make sure you leave the shallow ties for last. One reason for using tighteners might be for a very straight run, where there might no be any "curves" to pull the wire into, or if you think you might want to relieve tension for some reason.
Also, I ran the wire, tightened it fully, THEN strung the tube.
My slope is 1.6%, pretty flat. I found I needed a support every 25 feet.
I followed the book on some aspects, and went out on my own for others. Jared hit the nail on the head. You will find what works best for you---right after you are done.

[BreezyHill]

I use the tighter at the end of the run or if the run has to make a hard corner the tightener will be at the end of both runs of wire and a sweeping corner is made of the tubing. I will have to get a pic of that if you would like to see it.

20+ years ago we bought a hand ratchet winch that has a seatbelt like material with a hook at the end of 25'. The winch attaches to a tree or the ATV and the other end attaches to the tension grip. Then you just start tensioning the tubing...in cold weather you need to so slowly and shack the tubing every three strokes. If I have a helper I will have them stand at half way and shack the tubing as this helps to have an even pull.

I use a 9831 that sits in the back of the Artic Cat under the tubing spinner that is attached to the rear hitch. One person walks the line will a helper if available watches everything un wind. The wire is then attached to the J Hook/ Drive Ring in the tree. The tension grip is put onto place and the wire is attached to the tension grip using 10' of wire. This is so that the mains can be tensioned in the future by adding a tightener. Now attach the wire to the J hook, walk to the other end and attach the wire to that end J Hook, pulling as much slack out as possible without striping the galvanizing off. Place the tightener over the wire a few feet from the end ( 2' if wire is tight) and tighten the support wire to desired tension.

If you have to add a tightener in the wire with the tubing run... remove on lash to have room to work and apply the tightener so that the drive side will be next to the tubing. Force the tightener to take the last turn so that the wire is at the drive end of the tightener and you will only have a 1/8" dip in the tubing. Lash on booth sides of the tightener to minimize the dip span and you are done. This minor dip on a wet dry will have no affect as long as the wet is not at or above 90% capacity. It will have a slight affect on a single line system with capacity of 90% or more. The older style saddles and connectors have a much larger affect than this dip will on vacuum transfer.

9832 This shows where several lines come into the sugar house. The PVC is my dry line manifold. One tightener is visible from the ladder main. I had to retention the line after a branch fell in a wind storm and have yet to cut the extra tubing from the run. If using unistrut to attach wire be certain to use a chain repair link or similar as the square edges of a unistrut support bracket will cut the high tensile over time.

Ounce you do this a time or two it flies by. I can do the dead end in under 5 Minutes and the tension end is around 20-30 minutes and quicker if you have a helper that will pull the wire and attach as you are walking back and cut the tubing while you are tensioning. The time to tension the wire is under a minute with the rapid handle which ratchets and holds the tightener. The most time is spent on the tubing to shake it to get it evenly tensioned.

I have used the winch on the atv to tension the lines but extreme care must be used to not over tension the tubing. That makes it very difficult to get saddles to attach without leaks unless you use the bolt secured type.

CDL also has a removable tension grip that works great on runs of 1000-2000 feet of tubing. You have two wires that you lace the grip onto the tubing and pull each 500 feet at a time. Work great but it does take 10 minutes to put the darn thing on. But on a 2800' wet dry system it will save me 10 tension grips or +-$150.

The great thing about tubing is that not every bush is the same. Use what works best in your bush and you are happy with. I am always short on time so I like the method that is quick and has less maintance issues.

Ben