Maple Wheat Beer

[Amber Gold]

I local micro brewery wants to use our syrup in making a batch of maple wheat beer. For the first batch of beer, he used a quart of syrup to 5 gallons of beer, but didn't get much maple flavor. This time, he's making a 200 gal batch, and when I told him he'd need 10 gal of syrup (~$500) for the same ratio, he choked. I don't drink beer, and know nothing about the process. How much syrup should he be using, and when/how should it be added to get the maple flavor in the beer? Use a strong flavored grade B?

I'm trying to help him figure this out as much as I can. He's getting a lot of interest in the beer, so it could work out well for both of us.

Thanks

[unc23win]

I'm not sure, but I think it was discussed in Sugarmakers Companion by Michael Farrell I did not read that part yet. I don't drink beer or buy it either but I don't see how $500 for syrup is too much. I know the Maple Soda Michael Farrell talked about was like $3-$4 a bottle. So if a 20 ounce beer was $3 (probably could get more) 200 gallons would be 1280 beers @ $3 each that's $3840 so even if he does it whole sale there is still a profit there I would think.

[Cabin]

I local micro brewery wants to use our syrup in making a batch of maple wheat beer. For the first batch of beer, he used a quart of syrup to 5 gallons of beer, but didn't get much maple flavor. This time, he's making a 200 gal batch, and when I told him he'd need 10 gal of syrup (~$500) for the same ratio, he choked. I don't drink beer, and know nothing about the process. How much syrup should he be using, and when/how should it be added to get the maple flavor in the beer? Use a strong flavored grade B?

I'm trying to help him figure this out as much as I can. He's getting a lot of interest in the beer, so it could work out well for both of us.

Thanks

I checked the ' Sugarmaker's companion' He does give an idea about maple ale using 360 gallons of sweat at 10-14% in place of water and adding 5 gallons of maple syrup near the end. Far from enough information to use as a cook book but enough to get started.

[lpakiz]

Well cabin, I hope the 360 gallon of SWEAT thing was a typo......

[SeanD]

I was contacted by a microbrewery last fall and they were making a special batch featuring local ingredients. They wanted ten gallons of B, so I'm guessing your estimate of ten gallons is probably about right. He should probably get his recipe nailed down in small batches before he ramps up to 200 gallons, though. If he was dissatisfied with the 5 gallon recipe, not much is going to change by increasing it.

Sean

[Cabin]

Well cabin, I hope the 360 gallon of SWEAT thing was a typo......

Hey it is a lot of work to boil sap!:lol: My bad I was trying to type fast before dinner.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks for the info.

He said the hops for this batch are $500, and was surprised the syrup would cost the same amount. He's concerned that if he uses grade B syrup, and uses 10 gal syrup to 200 gal beer, that the maple flavor will be overpowering. What do you think? If he does stick with the 10/200 ration, he's thinking it'll need to be a special edition brew...higher price maybe? I don't know what the economics are of brewing beer.

He was also real concerned with bacteria in the syrup, so will heating the syrup to canning temps kill all the bacteria he's concerned about? I would think so, but wanted to confirm.

SeanD, any report on how the beer came out, and how well it sold? If I understood it correctly, he thought he added the syrup too early in the process, and was going to add it at a different stage...not sure.

Why would you use sap to make beer? You're not going to get any maple flavor in it.

[happy thoughts]

There shouldn't be any bacteria in the syrup as long as it's packed properly as you are likely already doing..... right temp for a good seal, clean containers, etc.. The long high temp boil (.>219F*) will get the syrup more sterile than he can get the rest of his brewing equipment by boiling in water.

It's been a long time since we've brewed beer and we've never made maple beer, but this link about ways to brew maple beer might help... http://vermonthomebrew.com/using-maple-sap-syrup-homebrewed-beer.

One way to cut costs might be to replace the water with sap (or concentrated "sweat" :)) And add less syrup later in the process. I think he's going to want the strongest flavored syrup he can get, maybe even a commercial grade which may cut costs as well. It sounds like the sugar in sap/syrup will make a stronger beer because there is more sugar to ferment than using water alone so he may be able to sell for a higher price as well. But as someone else already suggested, a few small test batches might be the way to go first..

Here's another link about how they used to make beer from the last sap runs in VT. It almost sounds like they used buddy sap.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/05/15/152694105/vermont-beer-makers-bring-back-old-time-maple-sap-brews

Maybe you can drop a PM to the forum menber clarkfarms (aka yeast pimp) He's a home brewer. I'm pretty sure has made maple beer and is usually pretty willing to share his expertise. Just tell him you love possums :) You could also search this forum for other beer threads. I've seen more than a few posted here.

[SeanD]

Thanks for the info.

He said the hops for this batch are $500, and was surprised the syrup would cost the same amount. He's concerned that if he uses grade B syrup, and uses 10 gal syrup to 200 gal beer, that the maple flavor will be overpowering. What do you think? If he does stick with the 10/200 ration, he's thinking it'll need to be a special edition brew...higher price maybe? I don't know what the economics are of brewing beer.

He was also real concerned with bacteria in the syrup, so will heating the syrup to canning temps kill all the bacteria he's concerned about? I would think so, but wanted to confirm.

SeanD, any report on how the beer came out, and how well it sold? If I understood it correctly, he thought he added the syrup too early in the process, and was going to add it at a different stage...not sure.

Why would you use sap to make beer? You're not going to get any maple flavor in it.

I had to pass on the opportunity. It was the year before this past one when almost my whole crop was Grade A Light right to the end of the season. I only had a few gallons of B left when they called.

They were going to sell it for $95/case. It was going to be a special edition, one-time batch kind of thing. I never followed up, but now I'm curious and will do some digging.

Sean

[lyford]

As a homebrewer who has tried this several times, adding syrup to the wort (unfermented beer) will result in very little maple flavor as much of the syrup is fermentable and will be converted to CO2, ethanol, and various byproducts. To get an appreciable maple flavor in your finished beer you need to add the syrup to the fermented beer. This is difficult thing to balance since syrup is sweet and in general a good beer ought not be. I wish him luck, and hope you make the $500.

[maplestudent]

I tend to agree with what Lyford said. I like craft beers and have tried many maple flavored beers, though if I recall correctly they were mostly porters, and almost all of them were too sweet for me (though I did try one at a brewfest this past weekend that I liked, however this was at about the 2-hour mark of tasting, and therefore I can't remember what it was).

I also homebrew and I can't imagine rolling the dice on a 200 gallon batch......I sometimes have a hard time doing it on a 5 gallon batch. So many things make up the flavor of a beer.....the grain(s), the type of yeast, the type and quantity of hops (and when they are added), and whatever other additives are tossed in. But I'm sure he knows what he's doing.....seems to me he would (or should) know what would be the best ingredient to adjust.

A home-brewing book I have suggests using syrup liberally, in a sweeter, fuller-bodied beer (wheat beer is a light-bodied beer), in order for the maple flavor to shine through, at 1 gallon of maple syrup for a 5 gallon batch!!

By the way....craft beers, in 22 ounce bottles, typically range from about $5 to $10 a bottle (I tend to stay in the $5 to $7 range). Occasionally I'll find something a little less than $5, but I have seen a number of special brews higher than $10 (and people will buy it if they like it).

[Amber Gold]

It seems the economics would work to use 10 gal of syrup, but he's still ramping up to opening his brewery, so I don't know what his costs are. He started a 200 gal batch over the weekend, and he picked up 5 gallons of grade B to add into the brew this week.

We'll see how the beer comes out. If he wants to try it again, I'll suggest a different brew or more syrup.

[maplestudent]

I hope it works out for both of you. I like local products made from local ingredients. especially when it is beer.

I need to find a way to become a taste-tester.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Ill be more than willing to be the tester for his beer, but just one or two beers wont do it so Ill send him my address im sure a case:o of beer for taste testing is just about right:cool:. I wont charge him anything for my services :lol:

I would have to find my recipe book but I made a Porter years ago and added a half gallon to 5 gal batch in secondary fermentation I believe it was either a B or C I added you could taste the maple but faintly not over powering

[maplestudent]

any new news on this beer?

[Amber Gold]

Not yet. I'm waiting for a report on how it turned out. I'll let you all know when I know.

[Amber Gold]

Update.

The brewer came back and bought another 5 gallons of syrup to make another 200 gal batch of beer. He said the beer's getting good reviews. Some can taste the maple, some not. Some say it's too sweet, some not. He gave me a bottle to try. I'm not much of a beer drinker, so I will not be able to offer anything insightful about it. He thinks the 5gal/200 gal is the correct ratio.