Attaching sills to sonotubes - do I need J-bolts?

[TrentonMaple]

Hi

About to start a 12x16 sugarhouse very, very similar to the one in this thread:

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?17574-New-12x16-Sugar-House-...-post-amp-learn-as-i-go-...-pics

I am going to place 9 sonotubes as a foundation. Do I have to use j-bolts to anchor the sill plates down, or is the weight of the structure enough to hold it solid? The j-bolt placement is a little intimidating in how precise they need to be.

This is probably a stupid novice question, but I want to learn some carpentry and I have to start somewhere.

[lpakiz]

With the popularity of hammer drills, many folks build first, then anchor the sill down later, drilling thru the sill and into concrete, then installing the anchors. You may also have access to a "gun" that shoots anchors right thru the wood and into the concrete.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Sounds fun. I would not suggest drilling or shooting into the top of sonotubes. You wouldn't want to see you nice new concrete crumble into chunks before your eyes do you?

I would use the J bolts. Much stronger connection. THe drilled in anchors pull, Anchor nails with a Hilte pull, but not J bolts. Get your holes dug big for your bigfoot and sonotubes. Then set them all up in the holes. Run a string from the center of the corner sonotubes and place middle sonotubes in line with string. You can string it in all directions to get it perfect. Then you place J bolts in the centers of each sonotube as the concrete sets. Keep in mind that you want the center of your sill to land on the center of your sonotube. If you're using a 10" sonotube, and a 2*6 sill, that would mean you want the center of your Sonotube 2 3/4" in from the outside edge of the building. This should leave 2 1/4" of sonotube exposed on the the outside of the framing.

Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. Drilling will work, but sonotubes often move over time. A strong connection is your best bet. And a PT sill...

Ben

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

On second thought, have you considered a floating slab? Monolithic I think it is called. A fat footer with a normal pad poured all at once. Then you have a washable floor which is regs now anyway. Can't be much more if you were buying bigfoots and sonotubes, it saves on buying that stuff. Replaced with Rebar, but still could be worth the little extra $ and effort.

Ben

[TrentonMaple]

Ben

I think what you are referring to is also called an "Alaska Slab". My father in law had one done for his new camp and it matches what you described.

I'm on a tight budget for this undertaking and I think the cost of the concrete for that would hurt me. I'm not a commercial producer, so regs don't concern me. Plus I was given the 9 sonotubes for free.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

You're right, they are also called Alaskan Slabs, that is where I picked it up as my Father and Cousin are GC's in AK.

Maybe it is that much more $$ for a slab. Though, the plastic footing forms are pricey too $20 each, times 9. plus the concrete to fill them. If you are not using a big foot base for the sonotubes, consider a small 2 bag footer for each. It will help keep them from moving.

Ben

[wnybassman]

Ben

I think what you are referring to is also called an "Alaska Slab". My father in law had one done for his new camp and it matches what you described.

I'm on a tight budget for this undertaking and I think the cost of the concrete for that would hurt me. I'm not a commercial producer, so regs don't concern me. Plus I was given the 9 sonotubes for free.

I'd be willing to bet that floor joists and good heavy subflooring would cost more than a concrete floor. One reason I went the way I did with my build.

[GeneralStark]

I'd be willing to bet that floor joists and good heavy subflooring would cost more than a concrete floor. One reason I went the way I did with my build.

Ditto that. Concrete is pretty cheap and if you do the forms yourself, you can probably find someone with slab experience to help with the pour for pretty cheap. I did a round 24" diameter slab for considerably cheaper than than the same size platform built up with 4x8 hemlock joists and 2x6 tongue and groove.

If you have good drainage on the site all you need is to scrape off the topsoil, bring in some gravel, level and compact the gravel, build the form and pour the cement. Even with poor drainage, just use more gravel.

[wiam]

I agree with the others that say pour a slab if you can. J-bolts don't have to be in a perfectly straight line. The ones in my slab are not. Are you planning posts on top of the tubes?

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

Bite the bullet right now and pour a slab!!! Frame the slab with 2x6 boards square it then dig a haunch around the inside is the form 6" deep. Place your anchor bolts around the edge. Also make sure to pitch the slab to a floor drain or pitch it out the door. I poured the slab but forgot to pitch the slab what a PITA. I built mine last year and have a few things that I missed but the slab was not one.

Scott
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[asknupp]

Sakrete, lumber for band board and trusses,5/4 treated decking, and screws. Between 350 and 400. I know. Would have gone with a slab but would have rented the pump truck as well. To steep of a hill.

[Moser's Maple]

how bout this?
http://www.strongtie.com/products/highwind/Sillplate-Foundation.html?source=highwindnav

[WoodButcher]

Trenton , glad to see my sugarhouse post helped...thats what i did it for.

as for wood or concrete ... concrete all the way . easier to clean, settles nice if done right, its a sticky place.... but my mini-bank hill sugarhouse site wouldnt have worked for crete.
i have always used J bolts and they are great for keeping the building grounded. im sure it wouldnt go anywhere though if i didnt have them ... lot of weight. in fact, right now i have the bolts poped through the sill plates but with no nut on them. i figure the wind will have to raise the building 1.5" off the J bolts, like a hovercraft, to actually move it :)

[wiam]

Trenton , glad to see my sugarhouse post helped...thats what i did it for.

as for wood or concrete ... concrete all the way . easier to clean, settles nice if done right, its a sticky place.... but my mini-bank hill sugarhouse site wouldnt have worked for crete.
i have always used J bolts and they are great for keeping the building grounded. im sure it wouldnt go anywhere though if i didnt have them ... lot of weight. in fact, right now i have the bolts poped through the sill plates but with no nut on them. i figure the wind will have to raise the building 1.5" off the J bolts, like a hovercraft, to actually move it :)

Seen it happen to a dairy barn with hay in the mow that was hitched down. I would not chance it winds seem to be getting worse here than used to be.

[mcsap]

This is a great thread, thanks for starting it Trenton and linking to Woodbutcher's posts. I am planning to build a similar-sized shack next month, without a slab just gravel floor, and the photos and ideas are a big help in planning it out.

John

[maplerookie]

you can always cover the floor later with 1.5 inches of cement and some gravel with perlite . makes a lighter mix. I have seen it done in upstairs apartments on old farm houses. makes floors soundproof and it is strong enough to take the weight as long as your subfloors are strong put plastic sheeting and pour your concrete. so if you can get a portable mixer to your place you can do it. anyway good luck on what ever you decide.

[BreezyHill]

We all know how heavy slate is and the storm of last week and the week before damaged a dozen houses by peeling back the slate roofs white gable ends.

I have to agree with Wiam...wind is nothing to play with. The time spent adding sill fasteners vs re setting a damaged building is night and day and the Cost ... isn't worth worrying about.

Ben

[TrentonMaple]

Lots of things to think about. Honestly I hadn't considered a slab before. I had just assumed doing a wood floor with joists would be cheaper. I priced it all out at Lowes and came to about $800 for materials. A slab probably would be cheaper.

The only other complicating factor is our taxes would likely rise if I did a slab rather than on sonotubes. A slab is considered a permanent structure and will cause my assessment to rise. We're already taxed beyond reason as it is.

[PerryFamily]

I just re-poured a floor in my sugarhouse: 14 x 16

6" of concrete
2" blueboard insulation
16 6" anchor bolts
1/2" rebar on a 12" square grid

Total cost was about $1400

And yes I said re-poured. Wasn't only 4" thick originally with no insulation and no reinforcement. Needless to say it cracked and heaved like crazy. It should be good now.

Good luck

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Trenton, are you sure it makes a difference between slab and sonotubes when it comes to taxes. That is not so in our area. My friend just had his kids play house on sonotubes added to his property tax. It was only 12*8'. Worth checking out if you haven't.

As far as I know, the only thing considered temporary in my town has to be on wheels.

Ben

[wnybassman]

Trenton, are you sure it makes a difference between slab and sonotubes when it comes to taxes. That is not so in our area. My friend just had his kids play house on sonotubes added to his property tax. It was only 12*8'. Worth checking out if you haven't.

As far as I know, the only thing considered temporary in my town has to be on wheels.

Ben

Same here also, doesn't matter if it a slab, on tubes, pole building or a block/concrete wall foundation. I "think" it is not considered permanent if it is on skids, but there are probably size restrictions to that as well.

[Moser's Maple]

Lots of things to think about. Honestly I hadn't considered a slab before. I had just assumed doing a wood floor with joists would be cheaper. I priced it all out at Lowes and came to about $800 for materials. A slab probably would be cheaper.

The only other complicating factor is our taxes would likely rise if I did a slab rather than on sonotubes. A slab is considered a permanent structure and will cause my assessment to rise. We're already taxed beyond reason as it is.
if you qualify for ag assessment then your taxes should not go up