Questions from someone considering entering the industry

[milligkl]

Hello,

My family owns a farm that has about 2,500 Maple trees in Southern Ohio. I've been researching how to make maple syrup, the equipment requirements, and the market for selling sap and maple syrup. I have encountered some conflicting accounts on a few items, and also have a few questions that I haven't been able to find an answer for and that's why I'm turning to this community for some help. I'm looking to start out on a hobby basis and tap about 300 trees to see how I like it before committing a lot of money and resources for the entire 2,500 trees. If you could answer any of my questions it'd be very much appreciated.


1. Would it be wise to buy a small evaporator now and if I expand my operation to use this as the “finishing” evaporator once I purchase a larger evaporator?
2. What is the smallest-least expensive reverse osmosis machine and how many gallons does one have to process at a time for it to make sense to purchase?
3. Are bags or buckets the better route to go in terms of effectiveness and price? How much should I be paying per tap and collection mechanism? I’ve seen a wide range of prices
4. How much sap does a tap yield (without a vacuum) in a small, average, and large run?
5. How long do you have to process sap before it spoils?
6. How much per gallon does pure maple syrup typically sell for at a farmers market (general range)
7. Does used equipment typically work just as well as new equipment or is there a noticeable difference?
8. Is glass or plastic preferable for bottling? Where do you purchase the packaging from?

[milligkl]

Also, one more question Maple Sugar and Maple Candy, how do the selling prices for those compare to Maple Syrup? Would it make sense to have several Maple products at a farmers market or would selling just Maple Syrup suffice?

[BreezyHill]

I would go with a 2x6 air tight used evap to start 300 trees on. This unit will be able to run on as little as 35 gallons to start boiling. You want to keep sap cold to keep it more than collection day. If it freezes skim of the ice. On a good run on buckets we used o get around 1.5 gallons a day. We have been on vac for the last 35 + years. I wont even tap without lines again. We run all nder high vac and this can be done for under $1500 in used equipment.
Used depends on the item and source. Some used is abused while other is just broken in.
RO will be the work horse of your system. It will work harder and more efficient than your evaporator as you grow. My unit is a 30 yr old Memtek and it removes around 180 to 240 gallons of water per hour last season. I am adding 2 more membranes to increase the capacity as we increase the bush size again. In a couple of years we will change from a 2x6 to a 2.5'x 8' or 3' x 10' depending on if we expand to addition bushes and start truck sap again. This depends on the labor force sons returning from college to the farm operation and feed mill.

We bottle 96% glass as it sells for more profit. We have had some requests for other maple products and plan to expand into candy, sugar and floss.

RO depends on your time to boil. Mine is limited so we had to fireup the RO and instead of boiling for 12 hours a day we boiled for 2-3...for a huge savings on wood resources.

Price will depend on your area. I was in a supper market yesterday in central VT and plasic was on the shuffle and moving at 26.99/ qt in all sizes to half gallon. I sell plastic qts at 23 but glass is $13/ 250 ml...8.45 oz.

Our gif sales is king over plastic sales.

how large are your trees? 300 t tap trees is a bunch for a hobby....thinking of boiling time that is.

I suggest doing a business plan and checking on market sources to be sure you have sales to handle what you are looking to produce. You may also want to take a vacation to see an operation to get a better feel for what is needed.

Ours started in 1971 as a hobby for my dad...like he didn't have enough to do. Then it helped pay the taxes on the farm. Now we are looking at it to be an additional income source for the farm.

Ben

[batsofbedlam]

If I were you, I would associate myself with an established sugar maker of comparable size for one season to understand what is involved and how to do it. Start attending as many workshops as possible to begin to understand the more technical aspects of the business.
Then you can make an educated decision yourself as to which way you may want to go.
You might even consider having a professional tube your sugarbush and just sell sap the first year. At least this will give you maple income to work with.

[Cabin]

Not sure about the other questions but ALL equipment is 'used equipment' after the first year. :lol:

[handtapper]

I agree with bats and breezy. Go to some local guys and check out their operations, and a 2x6 would be a great rig for you as it could easily handle the 300 taps for several years. You can then pick up a RO when your ready for expansion if the time comes. There's lots of guys running thousands of taps on a 2x6 with a good RO.

1) a 2x6 would be fine for years and maybe forever depending on the RO and if you find the need for something larger, the 2x6 sized units hold their resale value very well
2) People build there own for 300$ but it seems you get what you pay for and will be into it for a few thousand bucks for a used one
3) On the cheap I get free buckets from bakeries. If I was going to pay for buckets or anything it would be for tubing to collection containers
4) General rule of thumb is 1 gallon per tap per day, more on a heavy day and less on others
5) Process the sap same day if possible. Weekenders collect all week and boil on the weekend. Keep it cool and in the shade which is harder as the season progresses. Plenty of storage is needed
6) Depends how your selling it, if your selling in quart containers about 80$ gallon
7) Most used equipment will come with add ons like bricks and blowers. I would shoot for a unit that has welded pans not soldered unless the price was really appealing. Used units are cheap now but come sugaring season you wont be able to find anything used or new
8) I only bottle plastic but everyone sais that the glass outsells the plastic

welcome to the maple world, you will find valuable information browsing around on this site

[jmayerl]

I'll answer before reading every other response so it doesn't taint my opinions.

1. Sure you could start with a 2x6 evap with flue pan then sell the pans and get a 2x6 flat pan for a finisher.
2.ray gengrich makes a 125gph machine. I own one and wouldn't run it for under 300 gallons.(it costs under $2500)
3.i like bags. We collect 1000 and it's a full time job for 3 weeks each year. Made our own holders 3 years ago for $.25 each. Buckets are cheap or free also but a pain to clean and take up lots of space in the offseason.
4.on good days are bags fill in 24 hours(about 3.5 gallons) expect just over 10 gallons of sap per tap per season.
5.early season when it's cold, a few days. Late season when it's 50 and sunny, less than 24 hours.
6.huge range. Here in wisco the avg price is $15/qt
7.i wouldn't buy used unless it's in great shape.
8. Glass sells the best as customers can see the product. Any local syrup distributors have equipment and bottles to sell.
On a side note don't expect to make a living or killing on selling syrup from that many taps.

[jmayerl]

Candy, cream, sugar, and coated nuts are 80% of our market sales. On avg it makes our syrup worth $120/gallon but there is lots more work and some trade secrets involved.

[PerryW]

1. Would it be wise to buy a small evaporator now and if I expand my operation to use this as the “finishing” evaporator once I purchase a larger evaporator?

I'd buy at least one size bigger evaporator than a 2x6. Something like a 2.5 x 8 or 3 x 8 would be good for 300 trees, then buy an RO machine and the evaporator will still be big enough,

4. How much sap does a tap yield (without a vacuum) in a small, average, and large run?

Between 0.5 and 1.5 gallons w/ no vacuum



5. How long do you have to process sap before it spoils?

1-2 days is best. In real warm temps 1 day max.

8. Is glass or plastic preferable for bottling? Where do you purchase the packaging from?[/QUOTE]

plastic is the least hassle.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Hello,
1. Would it be wise to buy a small evaporator now and if I expand my operation to use this as the “finishing” evaporator once I purchase a larger evaporator?
2. What is the smallest-least expensive reverse osmosis machine and how many gallons does one have to process at a time for it to make sense to purchase?
3. Are bags or buckets the better route to go in terms of effectiveness and price? How much should I be paying per tap and collection mechanism? I’ve seen a wide range of prices
4. How much sap does a tap yield (without a vacuum) in a small, average, and large run?
5. How long do you have to process sap before it spoils?
6. How much per gallon does pure maple syrup typically sell for at a farmers market (general range)
7. Does used equipment typically work just as well as new equipment or is there a noticeable difference?
8. Is glass or plastic preferable for bottling? Where do you purchase the packaging from?

1. Maybe not in year one, focus your money on taps and learning how to collect sap. If you can afford it, yes, but plan ahead. If you go 2*6, then sell it in 3 years for a 3*10, you are losing money. Sell sap in year one to pay for 3*10 in yr two maybe.
2. I ran a 240 GPH D&G RO this yr and it was a nice machine. Same as with the arch, plan ahead and get something that can handle up to 2500 taps. a 240 is a nice machine for a 2K tap operation, a little small maybe, but a nice start.
3.If it is your land, why not go tubing, your production will increase substantially with tubing and Vacuum.
4. Setup tubing and get a cheap dairy pump to learn Vacuum. Then once you are able to get a tight system, upgrade vacuum. Then you will see reasonable returns.
5. asap. quality matters.
6. no idea really but if I did a farmers market I would aim for $20 per QT. I average $40 per gal. Which includes some wholesale, some wholesale retail and some retail.
7. Yes it does, if it is in good condition. The money is made in the woods, not in how pretty your equipment is. Efficiency is important, new or used.
8.Glass. Imagine buying white or red wine in a plastic bottle. You are asking a premium, give them what they want...

Just my Opinion. Good luck.

Ben

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Buy one of these, best resource you can get and you can gain tons of information on here spending extra hours going through the post.

http://estore.osu-extension.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=856

You can download and print PDF version for $ 20 if you want to take it to local UPS store or something like that and get it printed out in laser and spiral bound.

[bowhunter]

I think you've gotten good advice, but I'll also offer my 2 cents worth. I'm a hobby guy and I live just northwest of Columbus. Pricing here is a little lower than the Northeast. I sell for $42 for gallon, $24 half gallon, $14 quart and $8 pint. I think I'm pretty much in line with local pricing. Farmers markets are a difficult way to market a lot of volume. I sell at the local farmers market and I'm lucky to sell $150 on Saturday. People walking through farmer's markets generally buy pints and quarts because of the price and it weighs a lot to carry around. You will probably have to develop some other markets, either selling out of your farm store and or bulk/wholesale, etc.

I would start with used equipment, particularly evaporators. Buy an evaporator capable of 50 to 70 gallons per hour. That should take care of 300 taps on gravity. If you start with an evaporator this size I would definitely recommend going to another operation to learn how to run the evaporator before you try it on your own. Once you reach the capacity of the evaporator, buy an RO. You can then go from 300 taps to 1,200 to 1,500 taps. This would allow you to learn how to make syrup without the additional complication of an RO. If you start with an RO you will consume much less wood (fuel), but will make your operation more complicated. Filtering and bottling also takes a bit of fussing around and can be very time consuming so you probably need to add a filter press when you add the RO.

You could also start with a small hobby evaporator and 100-150 taps and just learn how to make syrup, but that kind of system is not capable of much more than 500 taps even with an RO.

You can buy bottles from http://sugarbushsupplies.com/ near Lansing, Michigan or http://www.erlstenmaple.com/ in Mt Gilead, Ohio.

[spud]

Hello,

My family owns a farm that has about 2,500 Maple trees in Southern Ohio. I've been researching how to make maple syrup, the equipment requirements, and the market for selling sap and maple syrup. I have encountered some conflicting accounts on a few items, and also have a few questions that I haven't been able to find an answer for and that's why I'm turning to this community for some help. I'm looking to start out on a hobby basis and tap about 300 trees to see how I like it before committing a lot of money and resources for the entire 2,500 trees. If you could answer any of my questions it'd be very much appreciated.


1. Would it be wise to buy a small evaporator now and if I expand my operation to use this as the “finishing” evaporator once I purchase a larger evaporator?
2. What is the smallest-least expensive reverse osmosis machine and how many gallons does one have to process at a time for it to make sense to purchase?
3. Are bags or buckets the better route to go in terms of effectiveness and price? How much should I be paying per tap and collection mechanism? I’ve seen a wide range of prices
4. How much sap does a tap yield (without a vacuum) in a small, average, and large run?
5. How long do you have to process sap before it spoils?
6. How much per gallon does pure maple syrup typically sell for at a farmers market (general range)
7. Does used equipment typically work just as well as new equipment or is there a noticeable difference?
8. Is glass or plastic preferable for bottling? Where do you purchase the packaging from?

Would it be possible to sell your sap to someone in your area? If I was living in your area I would try finding other sugar maker's and seeing if they would buy your sap. If you can find a sap buyer then your main focus should be to set the woods up. Don't spend money on Evaporator, RO and filter press unless you have too. The sooner you get all 2500 taps in the better off you will be. Pipeline and high vacuum is the only way to go if you want to make money. You can set up a woods for $6.50 a tap. I would buy a new vacuum pump 5HP and a new releaser and then look around for a used sap tank. Your total cost would be $22,000-25,000. You should get about 60,000 gallons of sap on average with a 2500 tap set up. It is possible you would only get .35 cents for a gallon of sap in your area but that would still make you $21,000 per season. After your second season you would have payed off everything and now have some money to spend. You could have your sap buyer pay you in some syrup along with money so you could start making maple cream and other goodies for the farmer's market. Always remember the money is made in the woods.

Spud

[handtapper]

Your going to need a serious hauler to haul 60000 gallons any distance efficiently

[GeneralStark]

Your going to need a serious hauler to haul 60000 gallons any distance efficiently

Unless you are in Franklin County, VT like Spud. Then all you have to do is kick back and drink coffee and eat Sarah Lee pound cake and wait for the tanker truck to show up at your door and take your sap away. :D Totally different world up there.

But yes, hauling sap does require the right equipment. Sometimes you can find a buyer willing to truck it. Here in parts of VT this is becoming more common, but generally sellers have to transport. Fortunately, in this case it wouldn't have to be all 60,000 gallons at once.

[spud]

Unless you are in Franklin County, VT like Spud. Then all you have to do is kick back and drink coffee and eat Sarah Lee pound cake and wait for the tanker truck to show up at your door and take your sap away. :D Totally different world up there.

But yes, hauling sap does require the right equipment. Sometimes you can find a buyer willing to truck it. Here in parts of VT this is becoming more common, but generally sellers have to transport. Fortunately, in this case it wouldn't have to be all 60,000 gallons at once.

Now that I am not working in the woods everyday I had to slow down on the pound cake.:) I was able to strike up a deal with a friend of mine from Hawaii. He owns a coffee farm and we trade maple syrup for French roast Peaberry coffee. The stuff is $48.00 per Lb but it's good stuff.

Although 60,000 gallons of sap sounds like a lot of sap when you break it down to 2500 gallons per day thats not much. You can put a poly 1500 gallon tank on a trailer and make two trips a day. The big question would still be is there a buyer for sap in your area? As the good GeneralStark said it is easy to sell sap in my area but I think in time it will be easy to sell sap anywhere. Sugarmaker's are now realizing that they can pay 70% bulk price for sap and still make a nice profit.

Spud

[handtapper]

Still would take minimum a one ton and a 15000 gvrw trailer to haul 1500 gallons. Both fully maxed out. If the hauling distance was short that would he best. Could Ro before hauling to increase efficiency but you would have to buy one up front. It wouldn't be economical for me to haul to sell sap with my half ton and 6000gvr dual axle trailer that's for sure. I also hate towing in winter with banked driveways. Being on a farm he probably has something up to the task hanging around

[southfork]

Lots of good advice. I would follow what BreezyHill said, makes perfect sense and is how many of us started. Today I have about 5,500 taps with plans for over 12,000. Started 14 years ago with 200. Start small, expand as time and finances allow.