Cinder block arch questions

[Mr. Red Maple]

Hey guys I just wanted your opinions on cinder block evaporators. Next year I'm planning on using 4 steam table pans placed on cinder blocks with a metal flue out the back. I may also add grates. I was just winding what you guys thought about that. What will my gph be if you know? I will be running 30 taps but I can only evaporate on the weekends.

[happy thoughts]

Better than a turkey fryer, less efficient than a real rig but the price is right. Definitely add grates. You'll get a better, hotter burn if you can get some air under the fire. Some even add a blower. You may also want to build a ramp under your pans to help direct the heat. Evaporation rate will depend on your design and how hot you fire it. Preheating the incoming sap also helps. On our very crude 2 pan arch with no preheater, and no blower. 3 GPH is about our max.

Do a search through these forums for block arches. There are lots of pictures and plenty of good advice to guide you in designing your set up.

Have fun and good luck!

[Cabin]

I set up the same system last year. Sure beat the single pan on the fire ring. I went from under 2 gph to almost 6 gph at best, 36 hours strait boiling to around 10 hours.. The only real problem I have is the blocks tend to shift as the ground under them thaws out due to the heat.

[handtapper]

I would save the cash/effort and buy a half pint to learn/grow on. The block/oil tank evaporators with steam pans can be dangerous, are inefficient and you will probably be basically stuck with it when you want to upgrade. Even if I had all the materials laying around my yard to make one I would scrap them then work a few days and buy a used half pint. A used firebricked half pint offseason can be had for 700$ and you will be able to sell it and recoup all or almost all of your money when you want to go bigger. You will never be able to sell a home made steam tray rig for good value. Hopefully you dont burn yourself moving sap/syrup from one pan to the next or removing it all at the end of the day. If you start piping them together and adding drop tubes your exacerbating the problem of not investing in a half pint from the beginning. If you buy a oil tank for 50.00 and 4 hotel pans (which will need near constant replacing or heavy heavy cleaning as they scorch) for 100.00, firebricks for 100.00 stack 40.00, cut off wheels, door hinges, metal for grates.... not even considering labor

I would rather be sugaring on a steam tray then be sitting inside on my couch so if thats your best option id say give it hell but I would reccomend a hobby sized rig

[happy thoughts]

I would save the cash/effort and buy a half pint to learn/grow on. The block/oil tank evaporators with steam pans can be dangerous, are inefficient and you will probably be basically stuck with it when you want to upgrade. Even if I had all the materials laying around my yard to make one I would scrap them then work a few days and buy a used half pint. A used firebricked half pint offseason can be had for 700$ and you will be able to sell it and recoup all or almost all of your money when you want to go bigger. You will never be able to sell a home made steam tray rig for good value. Hopefully you dont burn yourself moving sap/syrup from one pan to the next or removing it all at the end of the day. If you start piping them together and adding drop tubes your exacerbating the problem of not investing in a half pint from the beginning. If you buy a oil tank for 50.00 and 4 hotel pans (which will need near constant replacing or heavy heavy cleaning as they scorch) for 100.00, firebricks for 100.00 stack 40.00, cut off wheels, door hinges, metal for grates.... not even considering labor

I would rather be sugaring on a steam tray then be sitting inside on my couch so if thats your best option id say give it hell but I would reccomend a hobby sized rig

A half pint would certainly be more efficient but I think you're overestimating the costs, dangers and complexity of block arches. They can be pretty simple animals, be built inexpensively, and should hold up for a few years. Next year will be the fourth on mine with no need for repairs so far. You don't need hinges or doors if you don't have them. A metal garbage can lid works fine for us and an old grill rack resting on some angle iron works well as a grate.. My steam pans have been used for 3 years and should have at least 10 more years left in them so not sure what you mean by needing constant replacement. Yes, they will scorch some as all pans will, but they can be easily cleaned. They are a good place to start and learn on before moving up to a big pan that you really DON"T want to scorch :). And they can still be put to their original purpose as steam pans, if needed.

At the end of a boiling session I might have 1 1/2 gallons of cooled concentrated sap / pan to empty. No danger there especially if you attach some handles to the pans. Yes, hot sap can be a danger but so can boiling a big pot of soup :). I also don't need to worry where I'm going to keep and use a half pint. The block arch does just fine sitting out in the yard all year.

[Cabin]

This was the first year for mine. I used stainless 8 inch kick plates for a door. As you said no worry about off season storage.

[handtapper]

I'm going to hold my opinion. I've owned both a steam tray rig and a half pint. I thought my oil tank rig was the cats meow until I got a half pint. It did make good syrup and I learned a lot on the steam tray rig. The door is hot and can be dangerous without hinges. Its not well insulated so its inefficient and some run too hot on the sides to be safe. As agreed moving the syrup can be dangerous. You can't resell it like a half pint. No draw off no continuous flow. A half pint is 2x3' you can put it in a tall dog house for summer storage. Steam pans scorch on the sides while paying full attention unless its perfectly constructed at increased cost/labor. A half pint would scorch on the bottom if you fell asleep. If your preheater was full it wouldn't burn. Ramps grates hinges stack bricks all add up unless you own a farm/junkyard/old timers hoard of possesions and the tools/time. A used half pint would come with all that probably a blower too. Everyone's requirements and scenarios are different my personal reccomendation is to buy a used hobby rig now while they are cheap.

[Mr. Red Maple]

Thanks for all the great info. I will take it all into consideration but for the money I am going to use the cinder block arch

[handtapper]

The biggest pain I had was scorching on the sides you want fire only on the bottom. If you coffin drop the pans flush with the arch and have heat on the sides the pans will burn. Cabin seems to have had success with his how do you keep your pans up higher than the arch? He is right about the blocks shifting. I also found myself standing in a mud hole after the cold was gone so consider the location. Crude covers for the pans were crucial being outside and I directed my stack at a slight angle away from the pans to keep ash away. The deeper pans were better than the shallow ones to reduce the chance off splashing over. I found old firebricks at the dump before for free

[maple flats]

If a cinder block arch is what fits your budget, go for it. Before you buy the steam table pans, do some checking around for a small used flat pan. With a flat pan you could make your block arch much more efficient. Look in the classified section on this forum, also look at Bascom Maple, and a whole bunch of other dealers who take trades or consignments. At any rate, buy between now and maybe Oct., after that things sell much faster and your options dry up. If you don't find one by then, the steam pans are always available. If you end up going that route use 6" deep or even 8" and try to design a means to keep the flames/heat only on the bottom. It is when a pan gets flames up the sides that the most burning/scorching occurs. Also, the better you design the arch to contain the heat the more efficient the arch will be, open front and back is the worst.

[Cabin]

The biggest pain I had was scorching on the sides you want fire only on the bottom. If you coffin drop the pans flush with the arch and have heat on the sides the pans will burn. Cabin seems to have had success with his how do you keep your pans up higher than the arch? He is right about the blocks shifting. I also found myself standing in a mud hole after the cold was gone so consider the location. Crude covers for the pans were crucial being outside and I directed my stack at a slight angle away from the pans to keep ash away. The deeper pans were better than the shallow ones to reduce the chance off splashing over. I found old firebricks at the dump before for free

I reshaped the long edges of the pans so they fit closer together and have the base of the pans on 4 inch angle iron. I use pavers on the side of the pan to protect them from the wind and use 5/8 round stove gasket between the pans to keep the flames below the sap level. Mud is a big problem back in the woods. I use old heavy plastic shelving as a walkway from the cabin and on the sides of the arch.

[Bernie/MA]

I built a small rig for my grandson. Do a search on my name to find it. I don't type good.