Leader Vortex Evaporator

[moundcreekfarm]

Does any one who owns a Leader Vortex arch having problems with the fire brick staying attached inside, Im thinking of buying one and a sugar maker who owns one showed me problems he is having with his.

[ToadHill]

The diagram provided with the evaporator shows brick only 3/4 of the way up to the rail. We did this and it didn't work. So we bricked it all of the way to the top and 4 seasons later they are still solid.

[moundcreekfarm]

Thanks,this other operator did something similar and still lost some brick, I don't know if thats just an isolated situation, just do not want to have problems down the road.

[pmack]

Yeah, we have a 2X10 vortex professionally bricked and its loose after 8 short boils....not impressed

[Stone]

I have a 3x12 vortex and so far (four seasons) the firebrick side walls have deteriorated enough every year that they have to be rebuilt. So each season I start with newly re-bricked side walls in the arch. After the first boil I can see cracks starting in the bricks and in the mortar. Some time midway through the season some of the top bricks start falling down. Some years I can get by with stacking the fallen bricks back up before each boil but one year the walls got so bad that I had to rebuild them mid-season. Usually fewer than 6 bricks actually fall down but the entire side walls get cracked and pretty tender so you have to be gentle when tossing in firewood.

The first year, when the evaporator was new, I bricked the arch according to Leader's instructions. When the bricks fell down I thought it must be because I had done something wrong (I'm not a mason by any stretch of the imagination). The second and third years guys from Leader came out and re-bricked it for me; still the side walls crumbled. This year I re-bricked it myself - same result. I have a call into Leader and I'm still hopeful that they will help me resolve this issue.

On the bright side, the evaporator really evaporates. My 3x12 with a revolution front pan, max flue pan, and a steam-away will evaporate better than 300gph.

[ToadHill]

One mistake a lot of folks make, including experienced masons, is that they install the brick with a standard 1/4" or thicker mortar joint. The correct way to mortar the brick is with a thin layer as if you were just glueing them together. Also, I found the premixed refractory cement to work way better than the dry kind you mix yourself.

[Bruce L]

I feel quite lucky, since after three seasons now,( two of them shortened) my bricks are still in place. As Randy said, I only put on the refractory cement supplied by Leader with the evaporator like I was gluing linoleum down. Then I covered the arch and had a heater going for about a week, but it was also done in early December.

[pmack]

Randy,
We did use the premixed mortar from Leader and small joints, however, the block split right up the middle of both side walls. I am not a mason, but wouldn't the ceramic board be a better material to "mud" to than ceramic blanket?? I think its worth looking into.
Our 2X10 with revolution and max flue pans w/ rear steam hood was boiling 105 to 110 gals of raw sap per hour. Pretty impressive for a small rig.
Later...

[GeneralStark]

Randy,
We did use the premixed mortar from Leader and small joints, however, the block split right up the middle of both side walls. I am not a mason, but wouldn't the ceramic board be a better material to "mud" to than ceramic blanket?? I think its worth looking into.
Our 2X10 with revolution and max flue pans w/ rear steam hood was boiling 105 to 110 gals of raw sap per hour. Pretty impressive for a small rig.
Later...

Not a Leader unit but my intensofire came with with insulation board to mud to the steel. Then the bricks were laid over that and mudded to it.

One other thing to consider as most are likely bricking these in winter, btu should also be considered in warm months is the temp. at which everything cures. Using an electric heater or heat lamp and covering the arch with blankets or foam board seems like a good option. Also, it is important to have a small fire in the rig after curing but before really firing it up.

[ToadHill]

Ours was only backed with the ceramic blanket. If the bricks are cracking I would think there's an issue with the quality of the brick.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Might try wetting the bricks too before bricking them.

[pmack]

Ours was only backed with the ceramic blanket. If the bricks are cracking I would think there's an issue with the quality of the brick.
WE may have to contact Leader about the cracked brick.....as we have talked with them about sparks shooting out of the bottom of the rig ! Havn't heard what LEADER is going to do about it, yet.
Thanx Guys....

[Stone]

I like the idea of bricking all the way to the top rail. If you've done this, did you just attach with refractory cement or did you add any other attachment mechanism? What did you do with the little SS pins that are meant to hold the top layer of insulation?

Adding insulation board backing is an interesting idea too. I think I'd have to remove a layer of blanket insulation though - if I just add insulation board the wall will come out farther and I won't be able to remove my grates.

Any other ideas?

Each time it's been bricked (twice by me, twice by Leader) it's been with 3000F firebrick from Leader and with pre-mixed refractory cement from Leader. Refractory spread thin, covered with insulation and heated with a space heater for 4-8days (one re-brick was fall but others were winter). This year I even tried wetting the bricks first but it didn't help. There must be some way to keep the bricks from falling apart.

[ToadHill]

We took the pins out and just put refractory cement between the brick and the rail.

[butters]

hey you guys with the vortex/max flu/ steamaway/ steam hood. just how tall are them evaporators thinking bout gettin one but not sure if my roof is tall enough. by the sounds of the problems not sure if i want the vortex either.

[TheMapleMoose]

We were hired to brink a few of these, maybe 3 seasons ago. Kind of a head scratcher on why the brick just rests against the blanket so to speak. To my knowledge the brick isn't crumbling/falling out. The only thing we do that is different from what's been said here is we skim all the joints with refractory after the bricks are in place. The only other thing I can think of, is that you are cracking the bricks when you cut them, they are getting to hot, and you may not be able to tell they are broken until you expose them to a vortex fire. Or start chucking fire wood at them. Keeping any tile, masonry cool when cutting is essential. And these 3k fire brick cut hard
Using the pins to fasten some type of rigid backer, like cement board to support the brick seems like a good idea to a carpenter. Leader must not see it as much of an issue. Maybe you guys should let them know.