The Taste Of Maple Syrup - What makes syrup taste best?

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

Other than posts on buddy or off flavor syrups, I haven't seen discussions on how to make syrup taste better or what it is that makes the best tasting syrup.

I've tasted a fair amount of retail syrup and find most of it pretty bland. Yes it's sweet and has a little maple flavor, but sweet generally is THE taste. My syrup has flavor, not merely sweet. I'll describe it as a little smoky, buttery, or nutty, with a distinct maple flavor. How do you all describe the flavor of your syrups?

Does that flavor change with vacuum or reverse osmosis? Does oil boiled syrup taste different than wood boiled? I boil from raw sap over a wood fire. I batch boil and do not boil fast. I never use defoamer. Does that make a difference?

What does make a difference is red maple vs. sugar maple. I run about 50/50. One year I separated my red maple sap from my sugar maple sap and found sugar maple syrup to be the blander of the two, with predominately sweet flavor. Red maple syrup tasted smokier, butterier, and nuttier. It has a more silky mouth feel, as if there were butter in the syrup. To my taste, a 50/50 mix is the best overall flavor.

While I know I'm biased, I've not tasted a retail syrup that's anywhere near as good as mine. The difference is profound. I taste regularly Dakin Farm's sample syrup. Theirs is actually some of the best retail I've tasted. Yet I find it blander than mine, significantly.

My drilled well water is sweet, running 8.0 PH and over. Does that make a difference? My land is a gentle to almost medium slope and consistently wet. Not a big sugar bush, I wonder if it's a micro climate and has fairly similar soil throughout.

I'd love to do a blind taste test with a bunch of producers. It would be wonderful to get to know the broad range of tastes in maple syrup.

[Russell Lampron]

I tap mostly Reds, about 80/20 and have to agree that the syrup taste better and has more flavor. I sometimes get a honey like flavor early in the season but have never gotten any that tasted smokey, buttery or nutty. I use vacuum, reverse osmosis and air injection. I burn wood with air under fire and run my evaporator hot. The front is glowing when when it's up to temp!

[TonyL]

And what about the difference between a continous operation vs. batch boiling....It seems to me that the sap stays over the heat a lot longer on batch, which might tend to concentrate things a little more. Our 5 gallons of syrup made via batch taste better to me than the product made by a commercial outfit down south, who turned out 900 gallons of finished product last year. They graciously agreed to try my syrup, and called it delicious, themselves.

Could there be a slight loss in flavor, or subtle nuances, when you optimize for max production with a huge, continous evap. and are constantly pulling syrup off?

[jmayerl]

To answer most your questions directly as possible. No vacuum or reverse osmosis, or oil versus wood does not affect the taste of the maple syrup directly. The biggest flavor changes come from local soil conditions, metabolic changes throughout the season, and boil rate. Someone who concentrates to 20% and then boils that off in a very fast amount of time, will have less time in the pan for caramelization and development of some flavors which always happen towards the end of the boil.
Now if that same person boils 1.5 percent sap in a large vat over 12 hours just by adding some sap to it is going to have much darker stronger Syrup due to time it was cooking over the fire. Also many what evaporators on the small scale may be getting ash and smoke near their syrup which could be imparting some flavors.

Syrup is best described as some wines are. Local conditions and producing factors can change the syrup slightly in many ways

[Cabin]

And who made light syrup grade A??? Why is the less maple tasting grade A deemed better than the more flavorful grade B????

[DrTimPerkins]

Two things that people don't consider often when thinking about the taste of syrup are habituation and pride.

People are typically creatures of habit. We get used to the way things are -- kind of like the difference between your mom's cooking and your wife's cooking. At first your wife's cooking might have seemed a little odd and (maybe) not as good, but then you get used to it and like it. Since you taste and consume your own syrup, you will become very accustomed to that flavor, and think that is the way syrup should taste. So when you taste syrup that is different, your natural instinct is to not like it as much. This occurs with both good flavors and bad (off) flavors, including wood/ash taste (which is technically an off-flavor) and intensity of the flavors.

Secondly, we all like to think that the syrup we make is the best, and therefore the way that we make it must be the best. I can tell you that I've seen people making syrup in setups from hotel steam-pans over a cinder-block arch boiling raw sap to super high-efficient steam rigs boiling 25% concentrate, and they all think that they syrup they make has the best flavor. Much of your perception depends upon where you happen to be standing.

There are hundreds of flavor compounds in maple, although only a small handful of them dominate in most syrups. Then you toss in the intensity factor, then off-flavors, then the over-riding sweetness, and most people have a hard time really judging syrups very well. I can guarantee you that if I put you in a dimly lit room with syrup in opaque bottles that were unmarked and asked you to describe the flavor...you'd probably have a hard time and feel rather uncomfortable, and most people (even people who know maple quite well) would have a hard time distinguishing differences between samples except those that were very extreme. We've done just that a bunch of times, and, with relatively few exceptions, it always turns out the same.

I think this is why arguments like: buckets vs tubing, or RO vs raw sap, or air injection vs no air injection, or wood vs oil come up so often. People often just have the need to justify what it is they are doing, they become accustomed to their own flavors, and there isn't a lot of unbiased science out there (and what is out there is frequently not know about or ignored).

So besides all those things that "might" affect syrup flavor, I'd like to add another -- the mix of microorganisms in the sap. These are what actually convert the sucrose into invert sugars (and other compounds) that form the precursors during the various reactions that occur to create flavor before and during processing/boiling. It is well known that microbes affect flavor in cheese, wine, and many other food items. Why not maple?

[happy thoughts]

Caramelization has to play a part as darker syrups tend to have a more intense flavor which is recognized in the new grading system. But the presence or absence of certain bacteria also has to play a part as there are species known to spoil sap and syrup and at least one (P. geniculata) that is known to enhance maple flavor and also contributes to color. There was a patent granted for a process using P. geniculata to correct the taste of buddy syrup, but as I understand it, that would be considered an additive and not allowed under current law.

http://archive.org/stream/microbiologysani7341wass/microbiologysani7341wass_djvu.txt


CONTROLLED FERMENTATION OF MAPLE SAP

Although the action of micro-organisms in sap and sirup is undesirable, leading to decreases in crop yield and quality, the activity of one bacterial species, Pseudomonas geniculata, is thought to be involved in the development of the maple flavor in sirup. Studies with this organism and its relationship to maple flavor have been reported (5, 8, 9).

Although the details of the processes by which the P. geniculata is involved in flavor formation are still unknown, it has been shown that sap collected in such a way that absolutely no bacteria come in contact with it produces a sirup without maple flavor. If a culture containing only P. geniculata is added to the sterile sap and allowed to grow for a period of time, the sirup made from the sap will have an intensified maple flavor.

Studies were made with several organisms found in sap to see whether they could produce maple flavor. Not only were the other organisms tested unable to produce maple flavor in the sirup, but not even all the isolated P. geniculata bacteria were able to do so. This special process that yields maple flavor in the sirup appears to be a characteristic of only a few out of many organisms found in the sap.

Although sap contains 2 percent of sucrose, P. geniculata does not use this sugar for its food and energy source. It grows on the malic acid in the sap. Other organisms are able to hydrolyze the sucrose to form invert sugars. P. geniculata can grow very rapidly on the invert sugar, and probably prefers to use it instead of the malic acid.

The maple flavor of sirup, therefore, depends at least partly on the bacterial action in the sap. Maple sirups may have a variety of flavors ranging from weak to strong and from sour to metallic, depending on the number and kind of bacteria in the sap and their activity on the sap components.

There are other research articles that mention P. geniculata as enhancing maple flavor if you do a google search.

[batsofbedlam]

Excellent treatise.

[GeneralStark]

This year I made the best flavored syrup I have ever produced and I have used several methods over the years for making syrup from batch to continuous draw, wood fired or steam. In my hobby years I always made dark syrup (A dark or darker) with pretty good flavor, and with a pronounced "smokyness". It wasn't awesome, but was good. In the steam years, when I was sugaring with two partners, we made 85% C. Very dark and some with good flavor, but often with a "fermented sap" or "burnt caramel" off flavor.

The hobby syrup was made with a flat pan over a 55 gallon barrel arch, or prior to that in a pot on a woodstove. In both situations I would finish on a range. SOme like the "smoky" flavor imparted to the syrup by a setup that allows smoke, ash, and other particulate from the fire to contact the syrup. I do not and consider it an off flavor. I generally used buckets though then did setup vacuum tubing to sell sap for a couple years but still made some syrup on the flat pan.

When I was sugaring with partners using steam, we had separate vacuum tubing systems. Mine was new and state of the art, and my partners' was old (30 years) and poorly set up. The stuff that would come down the lines at the beginning of the season was disturbing, and their sap was generally rather affected by microbial activity. There were lots of sags in there lines, and the 30 year old mainlines were far from clean. I did some testing using a glucometer to look at the amount of invert sugar in our two systems sap, and the differences were significant. This is why we typically made very dark syrup. I also didn't help that the sap was stored in a warm place, and often sat for days.

This year, with a new to me sugarwoods (never been tapped) with 80% sugar and 20% red, a state of the art vacuum system at 27.5", all new tubing, and a high efficiency forced draft arch and brand new welded pans, I am proud to say I made the best quality syrup I have ever made. No RO this year but it is in the plan for next year. Of the 170 gal. I made about 90 is golden delicate (fancy) with a profound buttery flavor, nice sweetness and a subtle maple and vanilla flavor. About 60 is amber rich (most on the a medium side with some on the A dark side) with a buttery flavor but more pronounced maple flavor. The final syrup is all dark robust with the last 5 being almost Very Dark and with hints of pre-bud but still good. This dark robust has pronounced maple flavor, still buttery, but no burnt caramel that I was accustomed to in past dark syrup I made.

Based on my experience, I also believe that soils and site conditions are a factor in syrup flavor. The types and health of the trees you tap will also be a factor. But, I think that the biggest factor in syrup flavor is how it is produced, with the sap collection system being possibly the largest factor. Wood vs. oil, or natural gas vs steam, how the syrup is boiled and how much the syrup interacts with byproducts of combustion will certainly affect the syrup's flavor. RO can be a factor, but I think in most cases this is negligible. I have purchased some amazing syrup from a local producer concentrating to 25% from 17'000 taps and boiling with a forced draft high efficiency wood arch.

The majority of the syrup produced for sale is made using continuous flow evaporators, so in my opinion discussing batch production is somewhat irrelevant if comparing syrup flavor to "retail" syrup. What is "retail" syrup anyway? For the sake of a discussion about flavor in most syrup produced using modern techniques (not batch), I would say once again that the sap collection system is the largest factor affecting the color and flavor of syrup. Sure how you boil is a factor, but the environment the sap travels through from tree to evap. is the most critical thing for a producer to understand as what happens to the sap during this period is critical to the development of the flavors we are looking to produce. There are many discussions here related to invert sugar and its impacts on syrup grade so I won't get into it here, but anyone interested in producing the best quality syrup possible should understand these principles.

[GeneralStark]

Wow..several posts while I was writing mine. Very well said Dr. Tim. I think you sum it up very well. I do make the best syrup in the world.:D

[GeneralStark]

Caramelization has to play a part as darker syrups tend to have a more intense flavor which is recognized in the new grading system. But the presence or absence of certain bacteria also has to play a part as there are species known to spoil sap and syrup and at least one (P. geniculata) that is known to enhance maple flavor and also contributes to color. There was a patent granted for a process using P. geniculata to correct the taste of buddy syrup, but as I understand it, that would be considered an additive and not allowed under current law.

http://archive.org/stream/microbiologysani7341wass/microbiologysani7341wass_djvu.txt



There are other research articles that mention P. geniculata as enhancing maple flavor if you do a google search.

Caramelization is definitely a factor. But, burnt caramel is generally an "off flavor". The caramelization of the sugar in sap is related to the microbial activity in the sap after it leaves the tree. The sap from a maple tree contains sucrose, but as it comes in contact with microbes in the air, the microbes convert the sucrose to glucose and fructose (invert sugar). These invert sugars caramelize more easily in the evap. so later season syrup (made in warmer conditions so more microbes) tends to be darker due to more caramelization. There is also a relationship here with maple flavor. I believe if I remember correctly, the Maillard reaction is one significant factor.

Birch sap is very different, and this is why it needs to be processed in a different fashion than maple sap.

[TonyL]

I certainly get the whole pride thing, but I would like to believe that I am a little more objective in my analysis. This is only my second year making syrup, with last year's total production amounting to a little over a quart of finished product....made outside, over a wood fire. Complete with smoke and ash flavoring, which I thought was pretty good until I tasted real syrup. Then I decided I had to do something different.

This year, I cooked in a 2x3 pan over a homebuilt fuel oil tank arch. This was done indoors, with the smoke and steam vented outside.....no contact with the contents of the pan. I boiled 50 gallons at a time, and left the concentrate covered in the pan overnight to cool. The next day I finished it in a 1x2 pan over propane. And while my test tasting methods were crude, consisting of a spoon and two unmarked containers of syrup, everyone who tasted it preferred mine over that produced by the commercial outfit. The concensus was that the commercial syrup was sweet, but lacked flavor.

I've given this some thought, and it seems to me that a niche opportunity might exist here for retail sales. I cautiously submit that a savvy small scale producer might be able to leverage this to his/her advantage, by equating commercial with mass production, while promoting the small batch method as catering to quality (strictly flavor wise) over quantity. I don't see anyone being able to make a living doing it this way, but just as a supplemental income.

I don't mean any insult or slight to the big producers here, just thinking out loud. In the beginning, all syrup was produced by batch. I'm guessing that continuous evolved as a means to increase production? I wonder if the general population is aware, when they visit a large sugarhouse that runs continuous, that there is an even older method of making syrup?

Is there a difference to the consumer regarding taste.....is it good, or just good enough?

[Ausable]

Thanks Everyone. A very good read and a lot of interesting information. I have been making maple syrup as a Hobby Producer for about twenty years and my maple syrup is never quite the same in color and in taste. Always Maple Syrup - but - always a little different. My lightest colored syrup was made when I batch boiled. The grading system by color is interesting. I read a book years ago about a boy being raised by his grandfather in Vermont way back when. The Boy described how his Grandfather made and did things and how the old man always strived to make the whitest maple sugar possible - but - could never make it white enough to please himself. Does the light Maple Syrup Grading System go back to the old Maple Sugar making days? When the lighter was considered the better?

[happy thoughts]

I don't know when the grading system was developed but from what I've read the preference for light syrup goes back to American colonists trying to compete with the West Indies sugar trade. Light syrup made whiter sugar that brought the highest price.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

I have been making maple syrup as a Hobby Producer for about twenty years and my maple syrup is never quite the same in color and in taste. Always Maple Syrup - but - always a little different.

This is an interesting point and I think a great way for smaller producers to market something unique. We take this approach further with our honey. We take the time to extract and package each super separately, which we can do at our scale, and we get a premium for it. Each jar of honey we sell reflects whatever that particular hive was up to at one particular point in time. It's a bit more work, but we think this gets you a lot closer to the experience and fun of opening a hive and having no idea what you will find until you taste it right out of that comb. I think it gives the customer a closer connection to a specific place in nature than opening a piece of a homogenized 1000 lb batch. Obviously there are seasonal patterns that are somewhat predictable, but we have found a lot of the highest value customers want new and unique things - and we offer something no other producer around here does short of comb honey. As we grow, we will probably make more effort to put the bees in different areas as well to maximize this diversity.

I think this goes for maple as well - personally, I like the fact that as a small producer, I have lots of different batches with different characteristics. I like them all depending on my mood. So I like having the variety coming out all the time. The variety also creates an opportunity for dialogue with a customer to learn more, try more, and ultimately buy more of something they won't find in the store.

It's easy to buy a mass blended commodity product in the store, or even honey of a single nectar origin from large scale crop farming, at rock bottom prices. That being said, if you're a large industrial concern looking for a consistent product, there is clearly a need for standardized syrup blended to some common denominator. And a lot of people want predictability. All I'm getting at is that by not doing that, you knock out your toughest price competition and then take advantage of your unique attributes.

I am also passionate about explaining what I do and why - using renewable wood resources over oil, using RO to greatly improve energy efficiency and conserve valuable heating resources, while only going to 6-8 brix so we still have a rather long boil to develop flavor... it's just a philosophy I have about finding a good balance between smart technology and the traditions that people connect to. I don't think this has anything to do with the taste of our syrup beyond the fact that RO gives you a leg-up on making light syrup if needed. It's really just up to that buyer to decide if they want to support the philosophy we employ in both the production and marketing of our syrup.

[MidMichMaple]

This was my first year making syrup. I ended up with almost exactly a gallon between two batches, saving my almost syrup in the freezer each time until I had an amount that would make finishing easier. My sap came from a sugar, a freeman, and what I surmise to be two sugar/black hybrids. I must say that I was surprised when each batch turned out to be of medium color. This didn't seem to jive with what I expected from mixing all those micro batches together, but now I'm seeing others who say that batch boiling can result in lighter syrup, so maybe it makes sense. I was extremely cautious with my sap handling, so maybe that had something to do with it also. Thanks to the tiny scale of production and my work schedule which gets me home at 2 pm each day during the week, I was able to either boil or freeze all of my sap within 24 hours or less. On warm days I would collect multiple times and the sap didn't spend more than a few hours in the jugs. Would this sort of practice lead to lighter syrup? I boiled mostly over propane, but boiled my biggest sap run over a wood fire on a block arch. This was mixed with the propane batches.

Anyway, about the taste... It doesn't quite taste like the commercial syrup I've bought. It tastes good, but it has that nutty/butterscotch flavor that others have described. It is not as sweet as the grade A dark from the store that was in the fridge next to it. Mine was also missing the caramelized flavor, it seems. There is also a very distinct maple flavor that says "I come from a tree." I don't know how to describe it. I would almost like to send a sample to one of you experts to have it analyzed :D. At first I was a little disappointed that I didn't get the syrup flavor that I was used to purchasing from others, but now I have come to appreciate my unique creation.

[DrTimPerkins]

Definitely an interesting thread. I've always been fascinated that such a seemingly simple solution of water and sucrose, with a few other minor constituents, can have such a wide range of flavors.

Yes, caramelization is involved. Maillard reactions (chemical reactions between reducing sugars and amino acids) are also quite important.

For those really interested, you might go to a good college or university library and look for the following:

Perkins, T.D. and A.K. van den Berg. 2009. Maple Syrup - Production, Composition, Chemistry, and Sensory Characteristics. pp. 102-144. In: S.L. Taylor (Ed.) Advances in Food and Nutrition Research. Volume 56. Elsevier, New York

The table of contents and abstract are here http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/syrup_chapter.pdf

It was quite a chore to write, but fun in some ways as well. Unfortunately it isn't something I can share with people freely, since it is a book, and the publishers would (I'm sure) like to try to get their investment in publishing it back by selling it. A smaller library might be able to get it for you via interlibrary loan. And no....I don't make anything from the book sales. Same with the North American Maple Syrup Manual. Although many folks were involved in writing it, and a few of us spent a lot of time editing, we don't get a penny from the sales of these things.

[TonyL]

Thank you Dr. Perkins. I certainly value your input here, even if I'm just a small fry in a big pond. Always learn something new from reading your posts.

[TonyL]

This is an interesting point and I think a great way for smaller producers to market something unique. We take this approach further with our honey. We take the time to extract and package each super separately, which we can do at our scale, and we get a premium for it. Each jar of honey we sell reflects whatever that particular hive was up to at one particular point in time. It's a bit more work, but we think this gets you a lot closer to the experience and fun of opening a hive and having no idea what you will find until you taste it right out of that comb. I think it gives the customer a closer connection to a specific place in nature than opening a piece of a homogenized 1000 lb batch. Obviously there are seasonal patterns that are somewhat predictable, but we have found a lot of the highest value customers want new and unique things - and we offer something no other producer around here does short of comb honey. As we grow, we will probably make more effort to put the bees in different areas as well to maximize this diversity.

I think this goes for maple as well - personally, I like the fact that as a small producer, I have lots of different batches with different characteristics. I like them all depending on my mood. So I like having the variety coming out all the time. The variety also creates an opportunity for dialogue with a customer to learn more, try more, and ultimately buy more of something they won't find in the store.

It's easy to buy a mass blended commodity product in the store, or even honey of a single nectar origin from large scale crop farming, at rock bottom prices. That being said, if you're a large industrial concern looking for a consistent product, there is clearly a need for standardized syrup blended to some common denominator. And a lot of people want predictability. All I'm getting at is that by not doing that, you knock out your toughest price competition and then take advantage of your unique attributes.

I am also passionate about explaining what I do and why - using renewable wood resources over oil, using RO to greatly improve energy efficiency and conserve valuable heating resources, while only going to 6-8 brix so we still have a rather long boil to develop flavor... it's just a philosophy I have about finding a good balance between smart technology and the traditions that people connect to. I don't think this has anything to do with the taste of our syrup beyond the fact that RO gives you a leg-up on making light syrup if needed. It's really just up to that buyer to decide if they want to support the philosophy we employ in both the production and marketing of our syrup.

Totally agree with this. I am so enamored with the subtle characteristics of the syrup produced by small batch processing, that I am considering expanding. Although in a different manner than what is usually described here. Instead of moving up to a bigger, continous evap, I am thinking about constructing additional units of the same size that I use now (2x3). My building is large enough that I wouldn't have any problem with adding 2-3 more units. To my way of thinking, this would allow me to run all the evaps. together for heavy runs, or just fire 1 for smaller amounts of sap. This would also give me the option of keeping the batches separate and marketing their possibly unique flavors, or blending them to achieve a more uniform final product.

[Russell Lampron]

The first year that I made syrup I batch boiled in a roasting pan on a gas grill. The syrup I made was sweet but had almost no maple flavor. The following year I boiled on in my brand new continuous flow 2x6 evaporator and made syrup that had excellent maple flavor with sap from some of the same trees.

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

Of course pride may be the largest factor in "good" taste of maple syrup. It's a homemade food that takes a lot of energy, perseverance, and pride to produce. Being used to a particular taste is another bias. Blind taste testing seems to be the answer to both. I would love to do a blind taste test of an array of maple syrups. I've stored samples of all my years of production in the freezer. I hope to do a test with my syrups.

One important factor is the taste change over the season for maple syrup. The earliest syrup, generally produced in the coldest part of the season, will have a different taste from the later syrups produced during warmer times. This is likely due to microbial action in the sap, greater in the later, warmer saps. Noting that change is important in developing a bearing for maple syrup taste. Is it reasonable to assume that the earliest and often lightest syrups taste more of tree maple than microbial maple?

Some of the flavors remain similar during the season. One is the buttery flavor and silky mouth feel I attribute to the red maple fraction. For me that stays more similar throughout the season than any other of the flavors.

The cooked or caramelization flavor is another of the flavors of maple syrup that might have to do with how it's boiled. I don't note as much of this flavor in my syrup as I do in larger producer's syrup. I've wondered if the intensity of the boil affects this flavor. My batches rarely boil at the intense rolling boil of most larger evaporators.

I prefer the lighter syrups, perhaps since I perceive them to have more tree maple flavor. However I've made darker syrups that have very similar flavor to the light syrups save for that stronger flavor microbial action imparts them. Reducing the time sap sits seems to help the later, darker syrups taste more like the earlier, lighter syrups.

[MidMichMaple]

...
Is it reasonable to assume that the earliest and often lightest syrups taste more of tree maple than microbial maple?

...

The cooked or caramelization flavor is another of the flavors of maple syrup that might have to do with how it's boiled. I don't note as much of this flavor in my syrup as I do in larger producer's syrup. I've wondered if the intensity of the boil affects this flavor. My batches rarely boil at the intense rolling boil of most larger evaporators.



With my extremely limited experience, my observations match yours almost exactly. The very first batch I made during the early season was medium in color and had a more distinct "tree maple" flavor than any syrup I had ever tasted from larger producers. My first batch in particular was made in very clean fashion. Boiled each day that I collected at a lower intensity over propane (but not for an extended period of time, if that makes sense) and the sap was not allowed to sit around at all. Each daily collection was kept in the freezer and combined for finishing at a later date. From what I can gather, my process allowed for very little microbial activity or caramelization.

[Sugar Warrior]

One variable I think is how clean your pans are. If you do a thorough pan draining and clean-up from time to time during the season I think it helps make better tasting syrup and reduces the filtering time.

[Galena]

Strictly fwiw, don't know if it's already been posted on this thread, but I found it interesting....http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/food-and-wine/food-trends/this-maple-syrup-isnt-your-typical-pancake-topping/article18003462/

[jmayerl]

Had a hard time reading that one without a little throw up in the back of my throat......guess that shows it's all about marketing.

[TonyL]

Absolutely it's about marketing. It always is. Learning how to distinguish your product from everybody else's, and then leveraging that to your advantage is key. Equating large producers with mass production is one way to do that, and in my opinion, vital for small scale operations.

Find a niche market and run with it......

[WildRiver]

We made some wonderful syrup this year, nothing light colored, amber to some dark like coffee. I boiled 250 gallons of sap for a friend who was way behind in collecting/boiling because of our deep snow. I never did care for the aroma while boiling and he took away about six gallons of syrup when we were done.
I just finished off the last of what was in my pans and it looks and tastes more like molasses than syrup, I have two gallons of this. Anybody ever experience this before? I suspect old, degraded sap. It was all clear liquid to start with.

[wiam]

Absolutely it's about marketing. It always is. Learning how to distinguish your product from everybody else's, and then leveraging that to your advantage is key. Equating large producers with mass production is one way to do that, and in my opinion, vital for small scale operations.

Find a niche market and run with it......

I think it is not fair to bash the larger producers for being efficient.

[TonyL]

I think it is not fair to bash the larger producers for being efficient.

I'm not aware that I did any bashing, please rest assured that none was intended or implied. But in my opinion, a small scale producer who strictly sells retail would do well to distance themselves from the efficient, mass production efforts. I see a segment of the population who values one-off, handmade, distinctly different commodities, maple syrup included. The large scale producers would likely claim to be producing a product that fits that description right now, and depending upon how you look at it, they are. BUT......there is an older, even more hands-on and traditional system for producing syrup that pre-dates the modern methodology often demonstrated in large scale operations. Has this shift to mass production cost anything, flavor wise, where syrup is concerned? Quantity vs. quality?

"Made slowly, by hand, in the traditional, time honored fashion. We don't hurry perfection here at*******".......I believe that's the niche, the angle, and the money, for a small time producer. Just like small scale wine producers have been doing for years.

[Shawn]

Guess I will throw my cap into the ring here and chime in also. Big or small advanced or not we do it because we like it, we cherish it, we love to see grand kids growing up and attempting to lift buckets off trees, we learn from the big producers (i have) they are not afraid to give advise as in some point they to were in our shoes (small producers) and what ever it is we all work our butts off small or large. We here do not sell it, we divide it up between four of us that work hard, spend money and learn each year and in the end. I DONT HAVE TO GO TO THE STORE TO BUY IT, Its ours and we take pride in doing it.:cool:

[Cabin]

I'm not aware that I did any bashing, please rest assured that none was intended or implied. But in my opinion, a small scale producer who strictly sells retail would do well to distance themselves from the efficient, mass production efforts. I see a segment of the population who values one-off, handmade, distinctly different commodities, maple syrup included. The large scale producers would likely claim to be producing a product that fits that description right now, and depending upon how you look at it, they are. BUT......there is an older, even more hands-on and traditional system for producing syrup that pre-dates the modern methodology often demonstrated in large scale operations. Has this shift to mass production cost anything, flavor wise, where syrup is concerned? Quantity vs. quality?

"Made slowly, by hand, in the traditional, time honored fashion. We don't hurry perfection here at*******".......I believe that's the niche, the angle, and the money, for a small time producer. Just like small scale wine producers have been doing for years.

It is no difference with any mass produced product. They have to make a 'good' product to stay open. Hand made/craft goods have always had their nitch and always will.

[happy thoughts]

BUT......there is an older, even more hands-on and traditional system for producing syrup that pre-dates the modern methodology often demonstrated in large scale operations. Has this shift to mass production cost anything, flavor wise, where syrup is concerned? Quantity vs. quality?

"Made slowly, by hand, in the traditional, time honored fashion. We don't hurry perfection here at*******".......I believe that's the niche, the angle, and the money, for a small time producer. Just like small scale wine producers have been doing for years.

I have to agree with Wiam. Though small production syrups can be likened to small production wines they are not the same. Aging sap does not improve the quality of syrup nor do long boils. And there is nothing to be gained from syrups stored for years. Improving sanitation and shortening the processing time from tree to bottle has done nothing to hurt quality. If anything, it has improved it.

That is not to say that a single source product made carefully can't compete with or taste better than large production blends where many syrups from many sources are mixed together and sold as one. There is still usefulness in your romanticized marketing strategy and many will still prefer a small producer over a supermarket brand just as many prefer organic syrups over non organic ones even though we all know there is really no difference in taste or quality between them.

[wiam]

I'm not aware that I did any bashing, please rest assured that none was intended or implied. But in my opinion, a small scale producer who strictly sells retail would do well to distance themselves from the efficient, mass production efforts. I see a segment of the population who values one-off, handmade, distinctly different commodities, maple syrup included. The large scale producers would likely claim to be producing a product that fits that description right now, and depending upon how you look at it, they are. BUT......there is an older, even more hands-on and traditional system for producing syrup that pre-dates the modern methodology often demonstrated in large scale operations. Has this shift to mass production cost anything, flavor wise, where syrup is concerned? Quantity vs. quality?

"Made slowly, by hand, in the traditional, time honored fashion. We don't hurry perfection here at*******".......I believe that's the niche, the angle, and the money, for a small time producer. Just like small scale wine producers have been doing for years.

Why do you say to distance from mass production? I read that to mean there is something wrong with it. I refuse to market my product by saying there is something wrong with somebody else's. In my opinion that is bashing.

[TonyL]

I don't want to bash anybody else's product either, but I do want to emphasize the differences between theirs and mine. They're selling syrup...lots of it. I can't compete with that, and in fact, that's not where I perceive my strengths to lie. To me it's not just about the product, but the experience. Someone earlier referred to it as romantic, and that's exactly right. Stainless or plastic barrels full of gallons of syrup are after all, pretty cold.....but a pretty, glass bottle filled with 12 ozs of clear syrup, accompanied by a nice label and a story detailing the entire process from start to finish, conveys warmth and nostalgia...and that sells.

And how many times have I read on here that batch boiling will often tend to produce a darker syrup, with a stronger taste? That's touted as being a bad thing now, with the emphasis on lighter colored syrup. Why not make that darker syrup your selling point for the retail market, by promoting it as a by-product of batch boiling, in the old-fashioned tradition? How many producers on here have admitted to preferring a darker, stronger syrup themselves? I've read quite a few accounts, but it's not what the wholesale market wants to see. I'm never going to be big enough to sell syrup wholesale, so I'm not worried about increasing production to those levels....I don't think I need volume at $40 per gallon when I can sell smaller quantities at retail for a price that comes out to $150 per gallon.

I'm only in my second year making syrup, so I have a lot to learn. What I do know however, is that our very meager supply sold out in two days with demand far outpacing supply, and I have a waiting list already filling up for next year. And I think even that can be turned into a strength by savvy marketing, like the small wineries do: "limited production run, small quantity available...get it before its gone...when we run out, that's it till next year".

To be sure, this is just a fun, family hobby for me, not a business venture. But I see a potential market there, especially in a location like mine where small scale syrup production just isn't as common as it used to be.