Membrane Storage Question

[ldick]

The instructions on the membrane preservative container say to drain the cylinder after pumping in preservative at end of season. Is this the best way to store it or should it be completely submersed?

[Russell Lampron]

I have always stored mine in the canister filled with permeate. This year I am going to leave it in the pressure vessel on the RO. I now have a room for the RO that is heated all winter.

[brookledge]

I take my membrane out of the tower and put it in my storage container. Then I mix a cup of preservative in 5 gallons of permeate pour into storage container and seal it up
Keith

[PARKER MAPLE]

Im going to fill my canisters with distilled water. Thanks Russ

PS anyone interested in 2 nf270-4040 4in membranes only used for 20min this year let me no. IM selling them and the 4in vessels.

[Maplewalnut]

I have always stored mine in the canister filled with permeate. This year I am going to leave it in the pressure vessel on the RO. I now have a room for the RO that is heated all winter.

Russ- you dont use preservative?

Mike

[Russell Lampron]

Russ- you dont use preservative?

Mike

No, no chemicals, just permeate.

[Homestead Maple]

No, no chemicals, just permeate.
And you don't have any bacteria problems? Is there any odor problems when you open it at the beginning of another season?

[Russell Lampron]

And you don't have any bacteria problems? Is there any odor problems when you open it at the beginning of another season?

I don't know about bacteria but there's no odor problem. I do an acid wash and then 3 soap washes before I remove and store the membrane. I run half of my permeate through the RO after the final wash and let it sit for a week then do a final flush with rest of it. This year I used the same procedure but am leaving the membrane in the RO.

[Homestead Maple]

I don't know about bacteria but there's no odor problem. I do an acid wash and then 3 soap washes before I remove and store the membrane. I run half of my permeate through the RO after the final wash and let it sit for a week
I would say that there isn't any bacteria then if you don't have any odor at the start of another season. The acid and soap washes must leave the inside of your membrane housing sanitary so bacteria doesn't grow. I went to Brad Gillilan's seminar today on RO care and some of the stories he told of sugar makers that didn't properly take care of the membranes at season end and the plugged membranes they ended up with. Leader has some very efficient RO's that they make now that were at Bascom's today.

[Dennis H.]

Ok I am bring this back to the front.

So it sounds like I need to do an acid wash then a soap wash then a really good rinse. Is this correct.

I was planning on making up 2 storage vessels out of 4" PVC, so after doing the above I should not have a problem with putting them in there and then filling it with permeate.

[wiam]

If it is flowing as good after the last washes as at the start of the season you should be good. You should add storage solution to the permeate in your storage vessels( available at maple dealers)

[VT_K9]

We ran our RO last year for the first time and took the membranes to CDL to have them cleaned and setup for storage. How often do you need to have them cleaned and tested versus cleaning them and storing them yourself? I don't mind a little over doing and don't want to get caught with bad membranes.

Mike

[hughes53]

Im going to fill my canisters with distilled water. Thanks Russ

PS anyone interested in 2 nf270-4040 4in membranes only used for 20min this year let me no. IM selling them and the 4in vessels.

I am interested and would like to know what you want for them. Thanks, Brian

[sapman]

I took my membrane back for cleaning a few years ago. They ended up not really getting it any better than I did.

[hughes53]

I am interested in your nf270 membranes . You can contact Hughes 53 in a private message. Thanks.

[Dennis H.]

Ok did a little research and found that the chemical that is used for storage is sodium Metabisulfite.
It is used in the food industry as a preservative and also when making beer and wine.

My question is how much to use? This seems to be the same stuff that Leader sells but I can not find anywhere the amounts to use.


The place that I found that has it and will ship it is Duda Diesel, 1lb package is $7.95 and shipping is free.

[batsofbedlam]

Any wine and beer making store carries this. The dosage amount is right on the Leader package.

[TRAILGUY]

I have a 250 deer run 1st year . for storeage
END OF YEAR CLEANING
1. Do a soap wash,
2. Do a acid wash,
3. Do a soap wash
4. Do a rinse.
5. Fill wash tank with clean water. Then add preserue to wash tank. Let recirulate for 5 min. Follow directions on jar. Store R.O. With this preserve in the membranes. Never let membrane dry out. Store in a cool dry place in summer. Do not let freeze in winter. It is best to store membranes in machine.

Then I moved it down the stair into my basement to store where heated. Never again!!! Anyone have a 250 deer run and what are you doing?

[Dennis H.]

Did a little searching and found that the amount of Sodium metabisulfite is 1/8 cup to 1 gal of permeate. For a larger batch it is 1/2 cup of sodium metabisulfite to 4 gals of permeate.

[lastwoodsman]

I have Deer runs 125 Hobby, after final wash and rinse, I add 1 tablespoon preservative to the 5 gallon tank and let recirculate for 5 minutes as per instructions. Leaving membrane immersed in unit container and store unit in my heated garage during the winter. Not a problem with it this spring coming out of storage and following first run instructions.

[lastwoodsman]

Ok did a little research and found that the chemical that is used for storage is sodium Metabisulfite.
It is used in the food industry as a preservative and also when making beer and wine.

My question is how much to use? This seems to be the same stuff that Leader sells but I can not find anywhere the amounts to use.




The place that I found that has it and will ship it is Duda Diesel, 1lb package is $7.95 and shipping is free.Than

Thanks Dennis, I ordered a lb. Using a tablespoon a year it looks like I need to give half to Isle Harbor Maple.

[Russell Lampron]

I have a 250 deer run 1st year . for storeage
END OF YEAR CLEANING
1. Do a soap wash,
2. Do a acid wash,
3. Do a soap wash
4. Do a rinse.
5. Fill wash tank with clean water. Then add preserue to wash tank. Let recirulate for 5 min. Follow directions on jar. Store R.O. With this preserve in the membranes. Never let membrane dry out. Store in a cool dry place in summer. Do not let freeze in winter. It is best to store membranes in machine.

Then I moved it down the stair into my basement to store where heated. Never again!!! Anyone have a 250 deer run and what are you doing?

If you have a membrane storage container remove the membrane from the RO and store it in the container. If you don't have a storage container you can make one out of 4" pvc pipe and fittings to cap the ends. Put the membrane in and fill the container with the preservative solution and store the membrane in a place where it won't freeze. Drain the RO so that it won't freeze.

[Dennis H.]

Russell, I tried the 4" pvc pipe thing. The 4" will not fit???
I got a 10' length pf sch 40 pvc pipe and end fittings to make two storage vessels.
Luckily I measured before I cut but the 4" membranes will not fit into the pipe.

I had a spar SS membrane vessel end cap and tried to fit that into the end of the pipe first, no good. then to be sure I removed one of the SS vessel end caps and measured the plastic end on the membrane and they come up being about 1/8" to large in dia to fit.
Maybe it is the brand of pipe I got but I have to figure out how I am going to store them.
I read that that you should not store them in the RO as the preservative tends to eat away at the O-rings over time. Not sure if this is true just info that I dug up when searching for info on how to store the membranes.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dennis,

Might try SDR as it is half the wall thickness of schedule 40.

[Dennis H.]

Brandon, yeah I thought about sewer and drain it was just after I got home after returning the sch 40 stuff that I got.

I would hate to have to get 6" stuff, that can be very $$$$$$.
I may look into getting a plastic tub of some sort, it would not have to be very deep just deep enough to hold enough liquid to cover the membranes and also have a tight lid.

Heck it might just be easier and in the long run cheaper to buy another set of SS vessels and just plug the openings on the ends.

[maple flats]

In pressure type pipe I didn't know there were so many different ones. I made my storage containers from 4" Charlotte Pipe, foam core. This is a "for pressure" pipe. The I glued a cap on one end and an adapter (female slip x 4" female pipe thread). The membranes have about 1/8" room to spare. I bought that pipe from Lowes. This is a SCH 40 pipe, with further identifiers PLPA 4400 and "true fit system".

[Russell Lampron]

Dennis it looks like Brandon and Dave got the pipe figured out like I did. You have to use a thin wall 4" and it works.

I don't use membrane preservative, I only use permeate and store mine in my machine. After I am done with the after season washes I do 3 warm permeate rinses and then flush out the machine with the permeate that I have left. I leave the membrane in the RO and don't drain the RO. My RO room is heated and I have a propane back up heater if we lose power for an extended period of time.

[Dennis H.]

I'll have to check around.
I had all the fittings just as you mentioned Dave. They were even from Lowe's, but I do remember seeing "not" for pressure on it.
I just can't remember the manufacturer name that was on it.
I guess later this week I will to home depot to see if they have anything different.

Like I said there was someone on here that told me they would fit and I had no reason to not to believe them. I am thinking that maybe with some cheaper pipe that the OD is correct but to keep the strength up they have to increase the wall thickness a little.

[lastwoodsman]

Or to save time and hassle, I think I saw in the CDL catalog, Roths sells one for around 80.00. Seems cheap to me.

[Moshers Maples]

Can you add glycol to the preservative mix and not worry about it freezing in an unheated room? I only heat the RO room during the season, at the end of last season I moved my RO to the basement. I was hoping to get around that this year.

[GeneralStark]

Can you add glycol to the preservative mix and not worry about it freezing in an unheated room? I only heat the RO room during the season, at the end of last season I moved my RO to the basement. I was hoping to get around that this year.

No you can not count on Glycol to protect your ro.

[Dennis H.]

Yes there is a difference in pipe between different manufacturers.

Ran to Home Depot this morning and took one of the end caps for a SS membrane vessel with me. Test fitted it into the 4" sch 40 pvc pipe and it fit!
One thing I noticed that was very obvious between the pipe at Home Depot and the one at Lowes that did not work was that the pipe at works has a very smooth and uniform inside bore. The stuff at Lowes that did not work was kind of wavy inside.

I also am going to try and use test plugs as the end cap. I have had good luck with them sealing up good even under vacuum and when I price them out each cost me $5.50 compared to almost $9 for the plug and threaded end adaptor.
If for some reason the test plug does not work I'll still be able to add the threaded end adaptor and use the plug to seal it off. But I am sure the test plug will do the job.

So moral of the story? Yes you can use 4" sch40 PVC pipe to make membrane storage housings but you might have to look around for the right pipe to use.

[wiam]

Yes there is a difference in pipe between different manufacturers.

Ran to Home Depot this morning and took one of the end caps for a SS membrane vessel with me. Test fitted it into the 4" sch 40 pvc pipe and it fit!
One thing I noticed that was very obvious between the pipe at Home Depot and the one at Lowes that did not work was that the pipe at works has a very smooth and uniform inside bore. The stuff at Lowes that did not work was kind of wavy inside.

I also am going to try and use test plugs as the end cap. I have had good luck with them sealing up good even under vacuum and when I price them out each cost me $5.50 compared to almost $9 for the plug and threaded end adaptor.
If for some reason the test plug does not work I'll still be able to add the threaded end adaptor and use the plug to seal it off. But I am sure the test plug will do the job.

So moral of the story? Yes you can use 4" sch40 PVC pipe to make membrane storage housings but you might have to look around for the right pipe to use.

I used Fernco caps for the ends of mine.

[Gavin W. Hooks]

I'm joining this thread late but would appreciate any thoughts on summer storage of a 125 Dear Rum RO. I have done the end of years rinses, washes and added the preservative. Ray Gingrich recommended to store the membrane in the RO with the preservative in it. My question is how important is the "cool dry place" for the RO over the summer. It gets pretty hot down here in Missouri. I really don't have a cool place but it is plenty protected from the weather in the shack. I'm thinking of trying to get it in my root cellar. Not sure it will go through the door.

Thanks in advance!

[MapleMark753]

I have the electric upgradable 125, so we're in a similar boat. I too read that and wondered. I keep mine in a garage/workshop out of the direct sun in the summer months, gets plenty warm, but its the least hot place it can go really. Ray's shop where he makes and keeps his gets pretty warm too in the summer months. I followed his instructions, like you did, with the end of season cleaning and storage prep. Ray would probably give you a direct answer if you called him, or wrote a note. take care, Mark