Off flavored syrup

[adk1]

Ok, so I have never made off flavored syrup until now. I got fresh sap yesterday...has been cold and my tank was clean. the sap was clear. I boiled it this morning and there was like no maple flavor to it. it just tasted bad. I think it tasted buddy. Having said that, I walked thru the sugarbush yesterday checking lines and trees for budding. I didnt see any buds that were every really swollen. So, how is it that the sap tasted buddy or basically bad if the buds on the trees havent popped? Could it have been something else?

[Jeff E]

Its a mystery how this works!
The trees may just be changing over to making leaves, and that is that. Usually you will see clues, the way the sap boils, a smell from the evaporator, the PH of the syrup and sap goes up.
If you think you maybe had some bad sap, it may be worth trying again with fresh stuff. If your sure your sap was good, your probably done making good stuff.

[adk1]

well, I dont know for "sure". I am wondering if what was left in my lines had spoiled, which I am sure it did. I never let this run on the ground before it really ran after a good freeze the other night. Dont know how much sap would be spoiled in the lines that would remain..hard to tell, but, the taste had 0 maple flavor to it and just tasted bitter sweet....I still have the taste in my mouth..yuk

[Jeff E]

I think I know that taste. Almost like a mouthful of dirt.
It sounds like it is time to start the clean up!

[DoubleBrookMaple]

I have spent a lot of time reading about this lately, as I am probably about to experience this myself. Nothing like personal experience. I decided part way through this short season that I would keep boiling for the "experience".

The term "buddy" is associated with late season off flavor, or bad tasting syrup that comes from the trees themselves. Two research papers, one from 1910 at UVM, and another from Cornell in the 50's, cover the subject in detail. The UVM bulletin #151 associated the "buddy flavor" with a high nitrogen content in the sap, and that it is a physiological change in the trees. I have seen nothing anywhere that directly correlates the buds with the bad flavor.
I will be collecting today myself. I have some old sap that is slightly cloudy, and the trees ran yesterday, and will today. My understanding is, that the cloudy syrup is from bacteria that will make a lower grade syrup (I was hoping for some grade B), but not necessarily "buddy" syrup. One can have cloudy syrup any time of the season. I have a very small percentage of trees that DO show signs of budding. I have pulled the tap of them. I have one strange sugar maple that buds out long before the others. I have good syrup from all the others after that one starts budding. I am expecting at least a very low grade syrup, and very cautiously approaching this boil. My persistence (OCD) pays off in life in the long run, but sometimes it bites me.
REF:
http://cdi.uvm.edu/collections/getCollection.xql?%3Cbr%20/%3Erows=1&start=9&pid=maple
http://ecommons.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/4305/1/bulletin742.pdf

What folks do, is try boiling a small sample in a pot before you fill the evaporator.

Good luck to us both.

This is what I will boil... and it is only 1%

96719672

[adk1]

actually, the syrup was just nasty flavor..no maple taste to it and didnt taste like dirt either really.

[mountainvan]

Any buddy maple syrup I've made had a lingering metallic flavor.

[DrTimPerkins]

I have seen nothing anywhere that directly correlates the buds with the bad flavor.

UVM PMRC is the site of a number of different "monitoring" projects. One of them tracks sugar maple bud phenology (the timing of the opening of buds). Each year the VT Dept of Forests, Parks & Recreation has someone regularly check and score bud opening with a spotting scope in a certain portion of our woods.

In 2012, after the record heat wave we had, we definitely had buddy sap occur fairly early. I got the data from VT FPR on bud phenology at PMRC. It is attached below.

9676

What this revealed is that in 2012, early bud development was very much accelerated by the hot weather, and occurred 3-4 weeks early. More importantly, it is quite clear that at the very EARLY stages of spring bud development, while the buds were still swelling but before buds had actually opened (bud break), the sap was noticeably buddy.

In terms of the flavor....it is described in several ways, but once you've tasted it, you're not going to be in a real hurry to taste it again.

[adk1]

gotchya..well, does buddy syrup taste sweet? Cause the stuff I was making this morning, not so sweet really

[RileySugarbush]

We have a bunch of nice clear sap in this last run that has a bit of off smell when boiling. Not the nauseating smell of buddy, but not great. Taste tests from a quick stove boils by impartial parties say it tastes fine. We are going to go for it, but I have my reservations. maybe good for cooking ribs or something.

[Cabin]

In terms of the flavor....it is described in several ways, but once you've tasted it, you're not going to be in a real hurry to taste it again.

Reserved for those people you can not stand but who always seem to ask you for some 'free samples'!!:lol:

[Cabin]

gotchya..well, does buddy syrup taste sweet? Cause the stuff I was making this morning, not so sweet really

The stuff I made last year was not sweet and almost 'tanic' in taste. It might make a decent wood stain now that I think of it.

[adk1]

that sounds like it exactly!

[DoubleBrookMaple]

More importantly, it is quite clear that at the very EARLY stages of spring bud development, while the buds were still swelling but before buds had actually opened (bud break), the sap was noticeably buddy.

In terms of the flavor....it is described in several ways, but once you've tasted it, you're not going to be in a real hurry to taste it again.

Thanks for the info Dr Tim...

As expected, by test was bad. I always have to push the limit, but I will not burn all the wood, and have to clean again. I boiled nearly a gallon of the sap down, and it did have a sweetness to it, but without trying to explain the flavor, it was not good. Seemed like it might have been slightly ropey as well when I poured it.
**UpDATE**
The sap boil had no foul odor in the kitchen, but never good syrup smell. When my gf walked in after all was done, she said it smelled good in the house, but the taste test was "no maple flavor", and not good as well.
I would have spent hours boiling, and all that wood.
I gave it hell, but my season is offically over.

96789679

[adk1]

****, I wish I had thought of this test before I cleaned and filled the evap..then got up at 3am to boil....Urgh...

[madmapler]

I too am trying to gain an understanding about buddy flavor. I made some toward the end of last week that had a slightly bitter aftertaste that lingered. I thought that was what is called buddy. The stuff I boiled after the warm spell was clearly what is described by some here as dirty sock flavored. The sap was sweet and gave no hint of off flavor until it was boiling. Then there was no real maple flavor or scent. It was very unpleasant to smell and taste but I personally would'nt describe it as buddy tasting.

[bstewar]

We have a bunch of nice clear sap in this last run that has a bit of off smell when boiling. Not the nauseating smell of buddy, but not great. Taste tests from a quick stove boils by impartial parties say it tastes fine. We are going to go for it, but I have my reservations. maybe good for cooking ribs or something.

This is exactly what I'm experiencing right now. Not the nice sweet smell I'm used to. I still have wood and sap so I thought I would give it a try. I'm pulling the plug after tonight.

[Shawn]

Like taking a slug of bad milk and you swallow it and its too late then:lol:

[PerryW]

my experience is that you start making buddy syrup before there is any noticeable difference in the sugar maple buds. Maybe if you used a magnifying glass you could see a difference?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Boiled last night made that exct stuff ADK, grabbed a Dixie cup filled it up with filtered syrup took a mouthful and spit it right on the floor. Only 2 of 6 in sugar house tried it, after the others saw our expressions no one wanted to try. All done pumps off so GMP will by crying the blues so they will find another storm surge to make up for the loss revenue
.

[S&STappers]

Just made 16 gallons of off flavor. Real nice burnt smokey flavor. Messed up along the way somewhere. Sure wish I would have tasted it before I ran the whole 550 gallons. Too much hurry up probably. Anything this stuff is good for?

[DavidSB]

Hi, toward the end of the season, I keep a close nose to the pan, I can smell the slight buddy-ness in the steam, but only after it's been reducing for a little while, not to long, but can't smell it at the fresh sap stage, which makes it a pain. As soon as we smell it, we stop adding sap/firewood, and drain it the next day, call it a season, clean the pan. Some people can't smell it. For a long time, I was the only one in the family that could smell it. Now, 2 of the kids seem to be on to it. Well trained noses, took years.

[tcross]

never experiencing the "off" flavor of syrup... the syrup I made this past weekend has a slight vanilla (maybe nutty) taste to it towards the end! it's all slightly darker then the robust... is this acceptable to sell as "a very strong" or does it have to be commercial/cooking? I'm assuming it's not buddy/bad, seeing how it still taste really good... just not the same as the syrup I was making... however each week the syrup flavor changed slightly!

[sg5054]

At the end of my season I had a pretty good run of sap and was falling behind getting it boiled. I decided to cook it to around 210 and draw it off and store it in 5 gallon buckets so I could finish it later. The last 2 buckets had a musty/ fermented smell to them and were a bit ropey. I finished them anyways. They foamed up quite a bit right off once it got hot. I skimmed all of that off as it appeared. Ran it up to 60 brix and canned it. It is very dark and still has a decent maple flavor along with a hint of that musty aroma on the nose. (I sound like I'm describing a wine). I plan to use it for cooking. Any thoughts or comments? I should also add that the finished product looked perfectly normal and filtered as it should.