proper defoamer usage

[MapleMoonChaos]

I've been making syrup for a few years now and I have never used any defoamer, but I'm thinking that it might make things easier. I was wondering if someone could tell me in detail ( the more detail the better) what they use, how to use it, when to use it, how much and how often to use it, etc. ( I think you get the idea) and what the benefits are ? any and all input is greatly appreciated. thanks.

[Diesel Pro]

When there is foam present I simply add a couple of drops. It doesn't take much at all.

Last weekend I left my defoamer up at maple camp. I went to finish on my turkey cooker and it took off on me and foamed over in a big sticky mess like rootbeer. Thankfully I knew enough to put a couple drops of canola oil in and this tamed it down.

[MapleMoonChaos]

do you add it to the syrup pan or the sap pan or both ?

[ennismaple]

For our evaporator we add a 1/6 teaspoon of Kascher granulated defoamer to the flue pan right where the sap comes in from the float box (not in the float box) every 7 minutes. If we do that religiously we never get foam up in the pans and there's almost no scum to wipe down along the sides of the dividers.

[PerryW]

I only use defoamer when the pans start foaming up, which is most of the time when I have good firewood.

Usually a 3-4 drops in each pan. I will also put a few drops in as insurance if I have to run up and transfer sap or am preoccupied with take-off's or washing filters. I try to avoid using it before an imminent take-off.

Some guys use it all the time because it supposedly evaporates faster when defoamed.

[psparr]

Here's my way. I believe it was from Dr. Tim but don't quote me.

Depending on your evaporator size, you'll need morebor less.
Mine being a 2x6, I add two to three drops where the sap enters every time I fire. About every 6-8 minutes. Starting once a good boil is going. If you wait till theres foam your too late and may mess up gradient. Keep an eye on your syrup channels and adjust your defoamer amount according to the foam. If things get out of hand you can put a few drops at the draw off, but thats not the preferred method.

[CharlieVT]

Info from Boiling 101
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/bboil101/books/

Boiling 101 has a section on How to Use Defoamer
Foam reduces evaporation rate. To maintain liquid level and avoid fluctutations in batch sizes, it is recommended to add defoamer to the flue pan every 5-8 minutes. Use of a timer is recommended to keep defoamer use consistent.
There is a list in the handbook which says something to the effect that a 2 foot wide evaporator should get 3 drops, a 3 foot evap 4 or so drops, and a 6 ft evap about 9-10 drops. There is also discussion of where and when to use defoamer in the syrup pan, but routine use of defoamer in the syrup pan is not recommended. When the right amount of defoamer is added to the flue pan, there should not be foaming in all syrup pan compartments, just in the syrup side of the syrup pan. If there is foaming across the entire syrup pan, it is suggested to increase the amount of defoamer to the flue pan and then wait 20 minutes or so for it to take effect rather than adding defoamer directly to the syrup pan.

I've avoided quoting directly from the handbook because it is for sale for about $30. Not sure if it is actually copyrighted, but it is intellectual property. I actually bought one when I was getting started with boiling. It is written by the gentleman from Leader who has lectured at open house events like those held at Bascom's.

My take on Boiling 101: It actually has some pretty helpful information. The handbook is 25 or so pages in a 3-ring binder. Frankly, for 30 bucks, it is way over priced. I've gotten similar "hand-outs" for free when a speaker makes the notes to their lectures free to attendees; Boiling 101 basically amounts to a lecture outline for the presentations I have attended given by the gent who wrote it. I don't blame 'em for trying to make a buck, but I actually think Leader would get more in good will by just putting the booklet in the public domain and just maintain credit by saying "brought to you by Leader Evaporator Co." I mean, it seems silly to charge so much for 25 pages off a copy machine, considering how much business they do in sugaring equipment and supplies. If I were making the decision for Leader, I'd give the thing away and say: "We hope you find this helpful, and we hope you buy some stuff from Leader." Yeah, I'm just grousing that I paid $30 for 25 pages.... ;)

[red maples]

I couldn't even imagine boiling without it. you can use canola oil, safflower oil (I would recommend organic) or the commercial Atmos which is specific parts of the oil and has a waxy consistency to it.

when you have clean sap which is most of the season the foam isn't terrible, the very beginning when your sweetening you pans I tend to use more with a lot fresh sap coming in there is more chance for foam ups. As well as the end of the season when the sap gets nasty I think I used more defoamer than I did all season to keep up with it.

This is my first year using Atmos I used oil in the past and I like the atmos much better except for the build on the pans its tough to get rid of.

[Burnt sap]

I keep a spray bottle of cold sap on hand this was an old timers trick in our area. It works real nice on a 2x4 rig not sure on anything larger. The sap is so fine a mist it does not change the gradient at all, but calms the boil enough. To me it's better than adding anything that doesn't belong in syrup.

[MapleMoonChaos]

thank you everyone for your input. it is all greatly appreciated.

[maple flats]

I add 4 drops of Atmos in the flue pan at every 9 minute fueling early in the season, late season that gradually increases to 6-8 drops and very late it might go to 10-12 drops. I never add to the front pan unless the higher amounts in the back pan won't tame it. The last time I boiled, last Sunday, I had to add a few drops in the front pan, center 2 sections. It was just crazy bad.
Those numbers are for RO'd concentrate from 10-14% feeding the pans. Back before the RO I usually only needed 2 drops in the back pan at each 7 minute fueling. Start adding as soon as you have a boil, rear pan only or at the incoming sap location if you only have a single pan. A 2x4 might likely only need 1 drop each fueling.