Cleaning lines..???

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

Hello I have cleaned my lines every season with small amount of bleach and water hooked up my sap pump and pumped water up my mains it has worked good. But now I have vacuum on it and was thinking of using a backpack sprayer and shooting down my drops.. I was wondering about vinegar. I don't want to use just water. Or just suck them dry with vac. I want to keep them clean. If I'm going to walk and pull taps I might as well send some bleach water/ Vinegar water down them too. I think bleach is harder to remove and should let some sap run on ground at the beginning of season to flush lines.Which would be better is my question..?? Bleach or Vinegar???? Thanks

[noreast maple]

Vinegar, thats what i use cause the bleach leaves a salty residue and will draw squirells and other criiters to chew your lines.

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

So you mix water with the vinegar I assume???

[lmathews]

If you use liquid pool chlorine it does not have sodium in it.That's what I use.

[northwoods_forestry]

The Folks at Proctor did a preliminary study of various tubing cleaning methods and found no significant difference in tubing yields after cleaning with chemicals vs. plain water vs. no cleaning at all.

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/tubing_cleaning.pdf

[village idiot]

So far it seems that nothing is better than Nothing

[markct]

I tried many methods and then one year didnt have time to mess with it and just pulled the taps and have done that ever since and have no regrets. Tubing looks better actualy i think. Any sap left turns to vinegar over time so better than having water in there that grows algea etc

[batsofbedlam]

I have used a 50/50 vinegar/water ratio for years. Others say I have the cleanest lines they have ever seen; true sap turns to vinegar by itself, but I don't think the % of acid is as strong as my solution.
I originally used water years ago and found my lines full of algae.

[markct]

I agree that the sap turning to vinegar isn't as good as vinegar, just meant that it isn't as bad as having water in them. I am still trying to figure out if the grey tubing gets more crap than blue, sure seems like first few runs my blue tubing flushes a bit of crap out then the bottom of the tanks stay clean, yet my grey tubing seems to just keep finding crap to flush out for weeks! doesn't realy hurt anything just puzzling indeed

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

I took over a bush that a relative didn't want to put money in and in early spring when I redid it there was yellow sap liquid coming out of the line when I tore it down. That's what make me want to clean them. And the big thing on new drops and keeping bacteria out of the tap hole. I can't really afford new drops every 2 years. So wouldn't running something threw be better on keeping the bacteria at lower level.??? If the sap ferments its from bacteria most likely.? So that would mean you have to get bacteria in your lines first to make sap turn to vinegar...????

[adk1]

The past 2 years I have been using water pressurized with an air compressor. Seems to work. No issues with algae either. I leave the drops unhooked for a week then go around and pit them on the t. Will tell u one thing, if u don't put the drops on the t u will be surprised at the insects u will fine clogging your sap during the first run...lots of spiders

[noreast maple]

I use two hundered gollons of water and two gallons of vinegar,mix the two together, than pump up through lines and when done i make sure all lines and drops are empty and plug them off by putting spout on the tee plug. my lines look brand new still and expect to get atleast five years on drops .

[northwoods_forestry]

I can't really afford new drops every 2 years. So wouldn't running something threw be better on keeping the bacteria at lower level.???

The sad fact is that no matter what you do, within reason, to clean your tubing you'll never get enough of the bacteria out and prevent the significant production loss all tubing experiences after 2-3 years. Any of the anti-bacteria agents discussed here (vinegar, bleach, etc) require a long enough residence time in the tubing to kill bacteria spores that is simply not practical. A rinse is just not effective in removing all of the bacteria spores or even enough to make a significant difference. I think the best thing you can do to keep your tubing "clean" is to keep it tight and flowing downhill.

[noreast maple]

Ill keep washing mine, they are tight and down hill. the customers like it when they see clean lines and i feel safer and better about it also .

[Sugarmaker]

We do a water rinse at low pressure up the lines. Let each spout rinse for a couple seconds. We let the drops hang and drain for several day. Then roll up the short lines and bring them to the sugarhouse for storage. Yes maybe we are not getting all the bacteria. But it makes us feel better to remove the majority of the sap that was in the lines.
We did change all the drop lines and spouts this year, even though most of the old ones look pretty good.
Regards,
Chris

[vtgaryw]

Has anyone tried using one of the home brewing beer bottle sanitizers for cleaning their vacuum lines?

Gary

[wnybassman]

Has anyone tried using one of the home brewing beer bottle sanitizers for cleaning their vacuum lines?

Gary

My line was not vacuum, but I shot a slug of One Step No Rinse down the line. I just started at the top, pulled/cut off the tap and used a squeeze bottle with the mixed solution and gave it a good squeeze filling the line for several inches. Just worked my way down to the tank. Seemed to do an OK job.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

My only concern with flushing with vinegar is there is going to be some of it in the first run of sap and wouldn't it impart some flavor or affect the syrup in some way??

[batsofbedlam]

The first day the sap runs on the ground.

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

I used a back pack sprayer with a shot of bleach. I was going to use vinegar but was worried about the smell in my plastic tank. One good shot at the end lateral spout flushes the lines good and a little squirt on the other drops. Pushed the white clumps and brown clumps of crap out fast with vac it will shake the loop at the saddle. When I pulled the taps I watched for the grime and stuff in the lines to see what the vac pulled on its own. It doesn't pull it all out but with a flush it gets a lot more out. I am going to redo another bush next year. Pulled taps no wash and watched the sap sit in there. The brown and white clumps just stayed never even moved. I will take the extra time to flush my lines. I can't wait to see how my other bush with sap filled lines will look when I go and redo it later this year.. That build up of brown and white clumps of stuff would easily clog up fittings in 5/16 lines.

[DrTimPerkins]

UVM PMRC and Cornell Maple Program just finished up our first year (of 3-yrs) of a major joint project looking at cleaning of tubing and spouts, compared to spout replacement, CV spout use, and combined spout replacement/drop cleaning. We are analyzing the data now, and will start presenting results very soon, starting with the Leader Evaporator Open House this Fri/Sat, and the Bascom Maple Open House next Fri/Sat.

[Diesel Pro]

All the tees and splices would create an issue, but I was at a tube bender the other day and saw how they clean their production tubing. They have little foam blocks like ear plugs. They put the plug inside the tube and shoot it through with compressed air. Kind of a neat way to lightly scour off any loose scum or particles that may build up.

[DrTimPerkins]

They have little foam blocks like ear plugs. They put the plug inside the tube and shoot it through with compressed air.

Same thing is available for maple mainline. Some people like them. Others don't (especially if they get stuck in the line at a fitting). We've never tried them.

[Diesel Pro]

Seeing how quickly the black mold/fungus can grow on anything and how difficult it is to remove I think this would be something worth using. Just a simple light scrub to dislodge the junk.

[Profirefighter]

I have used sponges now for three years in all of the main lines. I vacuum all the lateral lines with alcohol, then suck the sponges down the mains. I like them as it removes the pockets of liquid and dirt that would normally remain in the main lines. If a line is really dirty they actually do a better job forcing them up the line with air and water first. I now use them to clean all piping in the sugar camp. Example, Line between RO and concentrate tank. I do all the under ground lines and have had no problem with them getting stuck. Just my experience.

[wiam]

Where do you get them?

[Profirefighter]

I have bought them from CDL and Lapierre.

[noreast maple]

Thanks , I will be checking on them. What are the name of them, or what do they call them, so i can ask about them? Thanks again in advance.:)

[Profirefighter]

Page 79 in the Lapierre catalogue. They call them a mainline brush.

[twobears1224]

when,you guys say that you use vinegar is it white vinegar?? the last few years we have used just plain water and I feel it works good for 5/16 lines but I don,t like it for mainlines and I wanta try something else for the mains.i have vaccume on my lines and on the end I have plastic valves with a garden hose adapter on them.i take 31 gallon barrels of water up in the woods with a tractor or atv trailer and hook those barrels to my mainlines with a garden hose.

[CharlieVT]

UVM PMRC and Cornell Maple Program just finished up our first year (of 3-yrs) of a major joint project looking at cleaning of tubing and spouts, compared to spout replacement, CV spout use, and combined spout replacement/drop cleaning. We are analyzing the data now, and will start presenting results very soon, starting with the Leader Evaporator Open House this Fri/Sat, and the Bascom Maple Open House next Fri/Sat.

I was looking forward to this but this year unable to attend either Leader's or Basom's open house. Is the first year data available anywhere else at this time, or are we waiting for publication?
Many thanks for all the efforts.

[DrTimPerkins]

Is the first year data available anywhere else at this time, or are we waiting for publication?

We will be speaking about it at various meetings, but it is unlikely that there will be a publication about it until after the second season of cleaning research.

[NhShaun]

After reading all 4 pages, it seems like it all comes down to personal preference. People seem to have good results with just bleach, water, or vinegar, or some sort of concoction lol. So i am also not sure what method i should use, or when exactly i should clean them? At the end of the season i would assume.. much harder to play with water when its below freezing. I think i will go for a vinegar/water combo because bleach just seems harsh, and the last thing i want is those pesky squirrels chewing on my shiny new lines.

[TheMapleMoose]

We have good luck with an air/water pressure rinse. No black scum or algae growing in the tubing. Our bushes are all relatively small and low slope so it makes for an easy set up

[batsofbedlam]

I have gone 4 years without changing anything but check valves on our 1500 taps, using only 50/50 vinegar solution and still average 30-40 gallons per tap.