Surge sp 22 dead

[RE Acres]

My Suge SP 22 went semi tight today. Oil was about 1" up in the sight tube, and had been running staight for about 20 hours after a fresh oil change,(Fleet Farm all season Vacuum Pump Oil). I run a 2.5 inch motor pulley at 900 rpm on the engine which is consideralbly slower than the 1750 RPM electric motor but its fast enough for me to pull 26 Inches on my 275 tress so I see no reason to run it harder. I thought perhaps the slower rpm may not be giving me adequate splash. Any thoughts on what might have caused its demise? I hate to trash my spare because I am missing something . I have not yet pulled it apart so I am not sure if the failure is in the crank or psiton area. Any input would be appreciated

[Russell Lampron]

I use 5W-30 in my SP 22 and never fill it more than 3/4" in the sight tube. I have been running it at 25" or close to it for 5 years and sometimes for days at a time. You might be on to something with the RPM's being too low. You may have an issue with running vacuum pump oil in it too. I'm not sure what the lubrication properties of it are. I have an electric motor on mine that is turning at 1750 RPM with a 2 1/2" pulley on the motor.

[lmathews]

I to just set up an sp 22.I talked to an old time surge dealer from wormuth dairy(Ray). The pump should not be any more than 550rpm(475 to 500) and the only oil should be vac oil. He has been a surge dealer 50+ years. I have a 14" pulley on the pump,& a 4" on the motor & the motor is a surge 1.5hp 1725rpm.I am running at 27" of vac.At the higher rpm oil supposedly doesn't splash properly.

[wiam]

I ran 15-40 Rotella in mine for years with a gas engine. Then went back to original electric motor. Ran fine till the shaft broke off the motor. But I don't blame that on the oil. That was when I upgraded to an Atlantic.

[RE Acres]

Hey guys thanks for the input so far so good on the replacement sp 22

[BreezyHill]

My dad was a surge dealer and I have seen first hand the effects of running low quality vac oil and hen there is motor oil. There is a simple test to do if you think your oil is good enough:
Take one cup of your oil and one cup of quality vac oil...buy it by the gallon as you will need it after watching this test.
use a paper cup so you can throw the hole thing in the fire afterwards.( or recycle for those that need to do that)

add a half an ounce of water to each cup. Mix with a plastic spoon for one minute. Don't use the miss metal spoon in the oil she will get mad.

Mix the vac oil first until the water is not seen. Now do the other oil, check how long you spend mixing each.

Look at the color and consistency of each cup.

Motor oil will be a creamy mess and stay that way. Quality vac oil will settle out the water in a short time. So which are you going to run in your prize pump to make it all season long with no worries???

If you need more convincing take two pieces of flat dry steel. Put two drops of the vac oil mix and slide the metal across each other. No do the motor oil cream. Not how hard it is to slide the steel now. IF you still need more convincing take a motor oil bottle and cut of the top and put the two pieces of steel in the containers. Take the mixtures and drain off any water that has separated from the mixes after a few hours. Pout the mixtures and let sit for 4 weeks with the steel in the containers. Check them once per week and note the rusting of the metal.

Every pump under high vac will get moisture in the oil, unless you are running the pump so hot it will evaporate out all the moisture. If this is the case the pump will fail due to heat damage not water contamination.

Spun shafts are a sign of water contamination. Pitted housings, stuck vanes, premature bearing failures, are 99% releated to water contamination and the sugar in our water makes it worse faster as the sugars are left behind when the water evaps off. The sugar is left to grind away at the metal surfaces and corrode and pit the steel.

900 rpm in a SP 22 is to much speed making heat that could not be disipatted. The splashing of oil is good but at that high of a speed there is little to no oil to lubricate the bearings on the shaft and the heat will cause a seizer of the shaft.

I have a bb4 for the daddy of the sp 22. The rotary valves inside are moving rather fast at 500 rpm I would not want to see how fast yours was going at 900 rpm. I fear you may have more than just a bottom end bearing issue to deal with, nor would I want to rebuild the unit. Like to take it apart but fear that things will be badly worn and in need to a total over haul.

Good Luck!

[highlandcattle]

We've had our pump for several years. Been using vacuum oil from Tractor Supply. No problems. Have you heard about using transmission fluid?

[BreezyHill]

Vac oil did have a product in it that would coated the metal so it would repell the acids of milk washing better as our sap will turn into. ATF would not have this additive..so it would be a less attractive alternative but I have added it when I have run out of Vac oil with no adverse affects that I noticed. I have used a small amount of motor oil in a blend in the past to get an increase in vac level but even that small amount caused an issue this season for me.

[red maples]

the TSC vac oil for Dairy Pumps is the best (its the blue stuff) the water instantly separates out no creamy grey mess ever. I am running a heavy vein pump now that has a oil drain on the bottom. I recommend putting a valve on the SP/BB pumps then every night when you shut down or even during the day anytime you check it you can crack that valve and release any water that has collected on the bottom of the oil. then there is minimal water that get redistributed through the pump head its like $15 a gallons worth every penny.

[BreezyHill]

the TSC vac oil for Dairy Pumps is the best

I would not go that far. It is a good, widely available economical solution for most producers. If one has an oil reclaimer and is looking to have his/her pump last the longest there are to other oils that are far better from the stand point of a pump rebuilder. Delaval's oil and Surge/Westfalia oils are by far better. They have additives that will keep seals resilient and they are designed for the high heat of the rotary pumps that are now used in dairy facilities and they do a much better job of coating the internal metal parts to protect from rusting with the rust inhibitor. The blue does not.

The blue is a good oil and I personnaly used it this season to flush out my oil reclaimer for next season. It is good and I would rank it 8 out of 10. Delaval gets a 10 and the surge oil gets a 9.5. The surge oil is a little thicker and could be an issue for some users when starting cold pumps on gas motors, but if your pump is in doors then the surge is a better choice if your pump gets hotter.
The blue does have a slightly lower vapor point and this helps to cool our industries hot pumps but one needs an oil reclaimer to take advantage of this...else the oil is gone from the pump faster. This is more noticeable at higher vac levels of 20 plus than below 20. Past 25 it can be a real issue on those hot days at the end of season. Producers will notice the oil is just disappearing from the pump. This is the reason. Surge oil is designed to go to 250 the blue is good to under 200.

Blue is good...just don't want anybody getting the idea that it is the best out there.

Ben

[RE Acres]

Breezy,
Thanks for the detailed oil course.

Just a clarification, my pump was not running 900 at the time of it's failure or any time before then.

I have a 2.5 inch pulley on my engine. That engine was turning 900 rpm and the sp 22 has a 14 inch pulley so my effective pump rpm is only 160. I have slowed my second one down to about 130 and it still has no problem pulling 26"

5" of fresh snow and a prediticed high of 35. I'm hoping for a good day

Tom

[BreezyHill]

Tom,

Hope your season is better than ours. We have been in the high 60s since Friday and 80 today. We are toasted.

One time I gave to little info and a guy nearly destroyed his pump...so I rather fully explain than give to little info and have somebody assume something and cause damage.

I would think you likely pulled some water vapor in and had a rusty chamber that caused the seizure. Nothing beats a good moisture trap. Good does not mean expensive. A home made unit can be made for around $50 from pvc. The design is the rating. The units that connect the pump side to the center are not good. The moisture will hang on the lip of the suction pipe and be pulled into the pump.

Where if the pump sucks from the outside above the center pipe the moisture is propelled to the bottom and will be more apt to separate from the air flow that is being pulled up the larger area of pipe at a reduction in velocity and not be able to carry the moisture back to the pump.

I would suggest checking your pump temperature. It wants to be fairly warm to be able to dissipate the moisture. A cool running pump will fail quicker than a warm pump...provided that sufficient oil is cooling and lubricating the pump. Warm is also rather hot to the touch...185 is a good pump temp.

A small section of dairy vacuum hose...clear, thick wall. Will make a great pump water check. The drain plug on most pumps is the lowest point and is a great way to drain off water. Install a valve at the drain end and if you see water open the valve and discard. This also makes changing the oil quicker and safer when the pump is hot. Trying to remove a hot oil plug is not a fun chore. Draining hot is by far the best way to clear all the contaminates out of the case as they are still suspended. In a cool pump they have settled out and my be left behind.

Pump failure is usually not one fatal mistake but a group of small things that add up over time.

130 is a fantastic speed as long as the unit is generating enough heat. The other pump was likely weak from its first life. Remember you are working with a unit that is likely 30 plus years young. They will need a little more TLC to last another 30 plus.

[RE Acres]

Breezy,
Our season has been less than impressive as well, fifities for the last week and little or no freeze. Today I can't crack the freezing mark and tomorrow looks questionable. Time is running out. Started out hoping for a half gallon per tap and am now hoping for a quart.

Here it is April 14th and its to cold for sap so I took the old girl apart. One wrist pin was tight, slightly galled the aluminum on the piston but a easy cleanup. Bearings, crank and cylinder wallls show no excessive wear for decades of life with likely minimal maintenance. Managed to save the seals and will clean her up internal as long as I have her apart. She'll live to make syrup again.

Now that I have it apart and see how it operates my only question is what is supposed to lubricate the rotating valve on top, oil vapor?

As far as a moisture trap I have factory Surge tank and a CDL inline between the extractor and the surge tank. Based on your last post I think I need to kick the speed back up as I am seeing a lot more water than with the previous pump. I was considering adding a small oil resirvoir below the pump so any moisture that accumulates could settle in there and out of the pump crankcase.

[BreezyHill]

Rotor Valve is mostly vapor as long as the oil is vac oil and will vaporize at around 170ish. Otherwise and when you put it back together some grease is a good insurance policy.

To slow is bad. No heat so no oil to the top end other than any that makes it by the piston. No heat and more water in the crank case and the crank will become rusty. Cool pumps are dead pumps. It is far better to turn off a pump hot than to let off the vac and have a lot of cool or cold air drop the housing or case temp and then shut her down.

With the good oil just a 6-12" section of vacuum hose with a stall cock on the end is a cheap catch and drain for the water.

I took 2 gallons out of my reclaimer yesterday. It finally thawed out and let the drain work well. It had been so cold most of the winter I would only get a few drops out since the pump was running such high vac and not putting much heat into the reclaimer. Also the reclaimer is for a 150 cfm pump and not a 6 cfm that is on it. I guess I need to make a smaller version of the unit unless we are going to have to run the large pump.

Post a pic of the rotary valve in the top so people can see what we are talking about. Many don't realize what is inside one of these units. Pretty neat engenering from the 1950's and before for the bb2.

Ben

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

9653sp22 rotor valve