Tubing basics,Shurflo Pump,,, for next year.

[TerryEspo]

I have been looking at posts the tells the simple of basics for proper tubing. I still have questions.
I hope most people here know I read lots of posts, so have patience for me, lol.

I have buckets and health spiles into tubing into pails this year, all years actually.

I want to try the Shurflo pump next year with mostly tubing.

What I know is I need a mainline that my laterals will connect onto, my drops will connect onto the laterals. Right?

Now, it get complicated for me.

I will sit the Shurflo pump and 275 IBC tote at the lowest spot I find that works for me. I don't understand how to run a mainline that gets close to all the trees, when standing in the bush, there is Maples all around me. I would need a system that looks like a cobweb with my IBC being the center.

Can I use all blue 5/16 line for this? Do I need 1/2" mainline? If I need 1/2" mainline, what direction do I go?? If I go north/South, I miss all trees East? West ?? Do I tee off for different directions ??

I am so confused.

Does anyone have the time to explain, even roughly how this all should be done. Diagram?? Anything, lol !!

The Shurflow and IBC would be in a level area ,maybe 200 x 200 (guessing),,,So, no lines I think would be more than 100', maybe 50 taps in that area.

Let me know what else I need to tell you if it helps answer my dilemma.

If I forgot something, please ask.

Thank-you.

[CampHamp]

Yes, tank is at lowest point. Mainline(s) must obviously terminate there. The mainlines should slope gradually down to the tank and must be lower than the taps. There is some debate about how many taps per lateral ( that's your 5/16). I have a decent slope, so I feel that I can load these up and have 20 taps on my longest 5/16 lateral. These laterals can zig-zag as long as you keep a down-hill slope to every section of them. I have had good results with this setup and also use a pump like you're thinking of doing...

[harrison6jd]

I have a smaller pump than most guys but it works for me. 115 taps all being pulled by 1 pump all on 5/16 lines. On gravity, it is not flowing like it should maybe because its restricted but the pump pulls 2 gallons per tap on good days. The battery gets me almost 40 hours of run time.

[TerryEspo]

Hi Harrison:

Would you guess your 115 taps all on 5/16 is around a roll of tubing,,,500 ft. or more or less than that?
Do you tee off for different directions?

Any more you can tell me is appreciated.

Thank-you

[woodchuck]

Lots of good advice already out there. As for the “cobweb”.
IMHO the key is to limit the number of trees on a lateral to five. The vacuum difference between the first tree and fifth tree is impressive. (25 vs 14).
Ive helped in some huge sugarbushs that run all the laterals off the same side of the mainline. This makes walking the mainline easy to find leaks.
I ran my mainlines about 100’ apart and ran my laterals off both sides. My longest laterals are about 100’. I think that this is referred to as a herringbone configuration. (My buddies have a less flattering name for it)

[sapman]

As far as taps/roll of tubing, I think when done in a good manner, as woodchuck is saying, you're probably getting around 20-30 taps per roll. Don't try to scrimp and save by adding taps here and there. Best to run another lateral if tap count is getting to 5, or if a tap is way out of the way. I tried to do things really right in the little bush behind my house, and I'm always amazed how much sap those 140~ taps are giving me. Wish I'd done all 2200 that way originally!

[harrison6jd]

Hi Harrison:

Would you guess your 115 taps all on 5/16 is around a roll of tubing,,,500 ft. or more or less than that?
Do you tee off for different directions?

Any more you can tell me is appreciated.

Thank-you
When i started, i thought i could do it withh 500'. Boy was i wrong. Closer to 1500 but the tubing setup is less expensive than buckets. You can build your own tool to save even more. There is great info in this site in various threads and everbody is willing to share. I used all T's instead of Y's as another local sapper(4) had suggested. He felt they didnt flow properly. This was 2 years ago and now ive seen thread with info that supports his thoughts. I kept mine simple with only 3 different fittings including the spile.

[Fleman202]

What kind of shurflow pump do you plan on using? I am in the same boat as you with not knowing anything about running tubing!

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

I'm kinda in the same boat I'm looking around to find a 12 volt pump to set up on a temperature sensor and a solar panel. Has any one tried this and what were the results


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[BreezyHill]

For what you are describing I would suggest you think of a pie. Your Tote tank will be in the center of the pie and the slices of the pie radiating out from the center are you main 1/2" or 3/4" depending on your current and future numbers per line. 1/2" is being phased out; so it may be better to switch to 3/4" now and not need to worry about getting supplies in a few years. I find in the long run it is cheaper to run mains closer than it is to run 5/16 out longer distances. I run mains across the slope and laterals down the grade to the mains. Mains run 1200-1600' long so it isn't unusual to have saddles as close as 30' apart on the mains. So by running the mains 75' apart I can save 25' per lateral on each saddle which added to the high product of sap from those trees will pay for the tubing easily in a few years.

Keeping the number of taps on a lateral to 5 is easy near the center but as you go out further you will be tempted to add extras on...whats the big deal...it is sacrificed production. The last few taps will contribute as little as half of the first ones if you are out there near the end of a run and add on an extra handful.

I am cheap. But, I hate to waste a penny by leaving sap in the bush that should have been in the collection tank. I look at it as a money machine...what I invest in tubing I will be getting back in sap over the life of the tubing.

Solar Power...can work super and can also be done wrong and be a bust. Battery backup or storage and plenty of panel to feed the pump on a cloudy day. Vacuum on a cloudy 36 degree day at my bush is as good as a breezy 40 degree day. I use high vac 28+". So the trees respond well to the warm temp and cloudy...Breezy days suck for me.

It is easy to build a PID with a temp probe and relay to run the pump. I got similar unit on ebay for $36 shipped free.

Panels and batteries will be a different story, but it is still a great idea. Just may be hard to setup if in the middle of a bush without a nice southern exposure.

How many watts is the pump usage under full load?

The other problem is if the temps are right and you have a sap run that goes all night. Then you will need to have battery storage for at least a 16-18 hour with no charging and a cloudy day after and run with not full charging capacity. A small generator and one of the new smart battery charges could help in that situation. Charge the battery until done boiling, if you are boiling at the bush site or nearby.

How is the southern exposer at the tote site. Shadowing affect of trees will reduce power generation also.

Best wishes!

[maple flats]

The taps per lateral depends on the slope. If you have steep slope, you can run long lateral with lots of taps, but if you don't have that luxury, laterals should be 100' max. with just 5-6 taps each for vacuum. Do not Tee 2 laterals together, the only tees should be the drops teeing into the lateral.

[Fleman202]

Where does everyone go for tubing supplies? What kind of fittings are best for connecting a lateral with the main?

[unc23win]

Where does everyone go for tubing supplies? What kind of fittings are best for connecting a lateral with the main?

Where are you located? If you don't have a dealer near you can order stuff online. Everyone has their brand or dealer that they like. For Mainline connections if you are using larger mainline such as 3/4" or 1" most people use a saddle. The Lapierre super saddle is a pretty popular one.

Bascoms sells a variety of brands of supplies. The Maple Guys sell mostly Lapierre. http://www.bascommaple.com/ http://www.mapleguys.com/ There is also leader evaporator which sells all leader brand supplies. http://leaderevaporator.com/ CDL sells CDL supplies.http://www.cdlusa.net/ For mainline most have limits as to how much they can ship. You might want to make a drive somewhere all brands have dealer listings on their sites.

[BreezyHill]

We have tried just about every saddle and main line junction there is. The last three years we are switching to a saddle that has the option to add a small bolt and block to the saddle to keep them tight and leak free. Where the deer travel thru the bush it has stop the leaks. This was a daily am trip to check these saddles and not one time were they lose last season. They are from CDL.

[GeneralStark]

We have tried just about every saddle and main line junction there is. The last three years we are switching to a saddle that has the option to add a small bolt and block to the saddle to keep them tight and leak free. Where the deer travel thru the bush it has stop the leaks. This was a daily am trip to check these saddles and not one time were they lose last season. They are from CDL.

Two words for you: wire ties

[unc23win]

Two words for you: wire ties

Exactly they even picture them being used in the Lapierre catalog. Myself I find very few saddles that leak and my sugarbush is heavily traveled by deer.

[BreezyHill]

Wire Tie...Well that was what started all our problems.

See the bucks in the summer, like to use the wire tie on the mainline as a scratching post to take off the velvet. Once they do this for awhile the wire tie start to cut into the mains. This makes a weak spot that has ended as several splices being installed over the years.

Thanks for the try, but been there done that. Max seal with the fastener bolt is larger than most saddles and worked better than the Lap saddles I tried two years ago. The deer were popping them right of three times in one week. Ended up duck taping the saddles to make it less attractive to rubbing. Worked but found one was still leaking.

Watched a doe slide her enter neck and shoulders on a saddle last season. It was a hot day and all the doe(6) were rubbing on saplings and the saddles. I have a stock pile of supper hot peppers that will be applied to the saddles if they start rubbing again but the tied on peppers, has kept the bucks away this summer.

Thanks again GS.

[unc23win]

I think General and I both were talking about the wire tie around the ratchet clamp to keep it from coming open or unhooked. Which would be the same purpose as the saddles with a bolt. Not everyone has a CDL dealer near them. Most companies sell saddles and almost all of them use a ratchet type strap that can be locked tight with a simple wire tie. Which in the case of a saddle already installed would provide a possible solution rather than complete saddle replacement, which would require $ and possibly another hole being made in the line.

[BreezyHill]

Still has the two eyes and twisty part hanging down to rub on or how? The ones we had were up to four ties to attach around the two pieces and clamp the saddle tight. What's the breaking strength of the wore tie compared to the bolt I wonder? I know I can get another 2 clicks on with the screw past the pliers squeeze.

[GeneralStark]

I think General and I both were talking about the wire tie around the ratchet clamp to keep it from coming open or unhooked. Which would be the same purpose as the saddles with a bolt. Not everyone has a CDL dealer near them. Most companies sell saddles and almost all of them use a ratchet type strap that can be locked tight with a simple wire tie. Which in the case of a saddle already installed would provide a possible solution rather than complete saddle replacement, which would require $ and possibly another hole being made in the line.

This is what I mean. I used to use CDL saddles and still have a few in the woods. I work part-time in St. Albans so I buy most of my supplies at the store and when I inquired about purchasing the bolt kit for my leaking saddles, the salesman whom is an experienced sugarmaker with many thousands of taps said to use 2 wire ties per saddle. So, that's what I did. You could always clip off the ends if you don;t want them hanging.

Now I use La Pierre "Branon" saddles and find these to be a superior saddle than CDL's. I do use wire ties to secure the tie strap for extra security.

[BreezyHill]

Ya those were the ones the bucks were popping off back in 2012...glad they work for you. If I saved them I'll give them too you. Max seal came out in 2013 with the bolt addition. out of 200 not one has leaked yet.

Thanks for the info I will share that.

[kiteflyingeek]

Where does everyone go for tubing supplies?

I would recommend Sugar Bush Supplies in Mason, MI (http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/). I live in the far SW corner of IN and they are the closest supplier that I have found. They are friendly and they produce syrup so they have experience to boot!

--andrew