Getting permission from university to tap trees

[fisheatingbagel]

Hi,
Long time lurker, first post. I started tapping a few red maples in our yard and neighbor's yard a couple of years ago. We live close to a large university campus (University of Louisville, Shelby Campus). The campus is not the main campus for UofL and is largely undeveloped with large tracts of lawn, forested areas, etc. Some development has taken place in the past few years, but there are still large undeveloped areas. One edge of the campus butts up to a subdivision and along this line are 70+ mature sugar maple trees. I asked the foundation that manages the campus for permission to tap the trees, but their response was "we don't allow the maple trees to be tapped". Our season is over for this year, but I would really like to get permission to tap them next year. Does anyone have suggestions on how best to approach them and convince them? I have a couple of ideas:

1) promote this as a community outreach - open house during syrup season
2) educational tours with area grade schools, in conjunction with the university
3) promote local food/"green" sustainable food production

Any other ideas?

Thanks!
Dave

[KevinS]

I suspect your first three thoughts are probably the best options to go with.
You are probably best off writing up a formal proposal from the git go before you approach anyone else at the U with it.

[DrTimPerkins]

I wouldn't hold my breath that they'll allow you to do this, but I think your best approach would be to involve the students from some class to give it some educational benefit to the students of the institution. Maybe enroll the assistance of the instructor to make it a one-day "lab" for the students to do during the season, and make some basic measurements on tree size, health, sap sugar content, etc.

[jimsudz]

If you do get permission to tap their trees offer to can some syrup using their label and donate it to them,so they can use it for fund raising. May help to get permission.

[Cabin]

Take some syrup to the biology department and sell them on the idea. They will then handle the access problem. Many people think tapping will kill the trees(including my wife). If a biologist tells them it is OK you may get access.

[fisheatingbagel]

An update on my efforts...

I thought I was making progress on getting the university to agree. I contacted a biology professor at the university, and she was very positive and engaged a person from the "sustainability" group, who was even more positive about the idea. I thought I was on board, but someone from the university foundation nixed the idea. FYI, here is my original proposal letter:

"Hi Dr....,
You don’t know me, but I’m trying to gain an introduction to someone connected with UofL who may be able to help me. My family lives close by UofL Shelby Campus, and as a hobby we make maple syrup in the spring time. We have a few acres of property with a few maple trees, and tap some of our neighbors trees as well in exchange for syrup. You may or may not know, but Shelby Campus has a nice stand of sugar maple trees on the edge of the property next to the Bellmeade subdivision. I tried last spring to get permission to tap the trees, but was told the foundation does not allow the maple trees to be tapped. I would like to propose the tapping of the trees (and the production of the syrup, at my facility) as an educational outreach of the university to k-12 schools in our area as an example of sustainable “green” agriculture, and making products from urban renewable resources. Maple products (syrup, candy, etc.) are commodity products, but the goal here really isn’t to make money. We enjoy the process, especially in the early spring when life seems dormant but in reality lots of activity is happening and I would like to have the opportunity to share the enjoyment we derive from the process with kids and other adults. Granted, we already do this with the limited trees we have available, but it seems to me UofL would benefit from the positive publicity. We would also be willing to donate some syrup and other product to the foundation as part of the agreement.

As I’m sure you know, the trees are not harmed by tapping and are only tapped for a few weeks in the spring, usually starting around the end of February. "


Needless to say I'm bummed. Back to the drawing board (of trying to locate more trees to tap next spring)

[maple flats]

Are their trees sort of equally spaced? If yes they were likely planted. As such, if they grew there others in the area may have also planted sugar maples. Ben Franklin tried to get the colonies and the states in the early years to establish maple sugar as our source of sugar so the US didn't have to import sugar. In those days the government actually paid farmers to plant sugar maples roadside. Maybe someplace near you there is a row of mature roadside trees to get permission on. We have several back roads in central NY that have them, mostly big old trees and most might possibly be from those days. If you find some, find out who owns them and make a visit. While you might get turned down most of the time, eventually someone will lease them to you.
In the past I leased trees like that and the owners actually asked me if I was interested, but only after I had done it a few years and had some free newspaper exposure articles. I no longer do on most, because they were rather small numbers to collect from, my biggest was 99 taps, 60 roadside on gravity tubing and 39 yard trees on buckets. The one remaining one has several roadside trees on vacuum, along with about 8 acres of mixed hardwoods, predominately sugars for a total tap count of almost 500 taps.
To me, it seems like tapping the end of Feb. would usually be rather late for your location. While we didn't get any until Mar. 27 this season, more often than not, we are collecting in early to mid Feb. and we are in central NY, significantly farther north than you.

[fisheatingbagel]

I'm guessing the trees are between 50 and 60 years old, about the time the campus was developed. It's interesting that someone made a conscious decision to plant maples at that point, as oaks (bleh) seem to be the most common ornamental tree. This area is not the best environment for sugar maples, but these seem to be doing well.

This area isn't ideal for maple production, but there are several sizable operations in the area. This past winter and spring was unusually cold for us, and the sap didn't start running until late February. A more typical year would see sap starting to run in mid February. Sometimes sap starts running at the end of January. It really is a guessing game, especially for bucket producers who have to be more selective when tapping, to make sure we hit the "peak" period of the run. Those on tubing can tap early without too much concern.

Anyway, I thought the idea of tapping the campus trees would be an interesting display of the different uses of trees in a suburban setting (as well as getting access to more sap ;-) )

[fisheatingbagel]

Another update in my quest for more trees. The university contacted me this time, and proposed tapping the trees on the main campus, rather than the (more convenient to me) extension campus. They see this as beneficial for promoting their sustainability program, as well as "tapping" into more local resources. They have around 120 viable trees, but widely scattered around the 300 acre campus. We have yet to agree on percentage of syrup they would want as part of the deal. The logistics are such that this will only work if they do the bulk of sap collection using their resources - students. For this to happen, it would be useful to incorporate aspects of the operation into classwork, as "lab work", etc.

Has anyone done something similar to this before? The possibilities are fairly broad, but I'm trying to come up with more specific things they could actually do as part of their classwork.

[DrTimPerkins]

They could easily measure daily volume and daily sugar content and try to relate these to size and health of the tree. If they wanted to get more creative, they could also measure conductivity and pH of the sap as well. If they had more than just sugar maple, they could compare the differences in sap sugar content between the different species.

Perhaps they could compare different types of spouts? Maybe they could tap some trees, but leave some trees untapped and measure the dbh each year (maybe put in a small tack so they measure it at the same height each year) to see if tapping affects the growth of the trees.

They could measure the sap sugar and pH over a few days under different storage conditions to see what happened if it isn't collected quickly. Measure sap sugar when some freezes, and then melt the ice to see if sugar is left in the ice. If they have the capacity to do microbiological culturing, they could see what types of things grow in maple sap.

Lots of possibilities.

[Jebediah]

Maybe they could learn about splitting some wood.

[fisheatingbagel]

Thanks Dr. Perkins, those are great suggestions. I'll pass them along to the assistant proctor I've been talking with.

[fisheatingbagel]

Ha, it will be challenge enough getting them to carry some sap.

[sap seeker]

Call me cynical but I'd be worried about college kids peeing in my buckets!:o

[fisheatingbagel]

No, I have concerns about this too. Actually I think pee would be pretty obvious, so it could be dumped. I'm worried about other things that might not be as obvious ;-(

[DrTimPerkins]

Call me cynical but I'd be worried about college kids peeing in my buckets!:o

Probably not as big an issue as you might think, however it would be quite easy to check suspected buckets with a salinity indicator.