Pumping and Sucking

[TheMapleMoose]

When people talk about pumping sap we listen pretty closely because our sugarhouse is uphill from both of our groves. The roads to our collection points are off road, so we are set up with a Kubota RTV with tracks and tank trailer and can move 300ish gallons per trip if need be. We are hoping to set up to pump sap back from both places and have actually gotten set up from the closest collection point (1000') and have made out ok with a shallow well pump.
There were a few guys that stopped by who run a commercial operation (18k Taps) and they talked about pumping sap a mile. We've been to a few other big operations and hear them talk about pumping alot further than that. Most of them will say that they are pumping, but also sucking on the other end. My question is what do they mean by this? Are they pumping into a vacuum line that is tied into a releaser? Or would you have a water pump at the discharge end also, like a pump on each end?

I forgot to add that we have about 30' of vertical rise on both set ups. One is 1000' away and the other is 1600'.

[bowhunter]

You can run a pump on both ends. Commercial pipelines in the oil industry have booster pumps every so often and they pump crude oil thousands of miles.

[Mark]

When people talk about pumping sap we listen pretty closely because our sugarhouse is uphill from both of our groves. The roads to our collection points are off road, so we are set up with a Kubota RTV with tracks and tank trailer and can move 300ish gallons per trip if need be. We are hoping to set up to pump sap back from both places and have actually gotten set up from the closest collection point (1000') and have made out ok with a shallow well pump.
There were a few guys that stopped by who run a commercial operation (18k Taps) and they talked about pumping sap a mile. We've been to a few other big operations and hear them talk about pumping alot further than that. Most of them will say that they are pumping, but also sucking on the other end. My question is what do they mean by this? Are they pumping into a vacuum line that is tied into a releaser? Or would you have a water pump at the discharge end also, like a pump on each end?

I forgot to add that we have about 30' of vertical rise on both set ups. One is 1000' away and the other is 1600'.
Yes they are pumping into a line that runs into an extractor on the other end. I pump up 75 feet and 2800 feet horizontal with a 1 1/2 hp 3 stage pump and that goes into the extractor at the sugarhouse. You can not completely empty the remote tank or you will have an air leak through that line and pump. Pump switch turns off the pump with a couple inches left in the tank.

[TheMapleMoose]

You can not completely empty the remote tank or you will have an air leak through that line and pump. Pump switch turns off the pump with a couple inches left in the tank.

That makes sense. Thanks for the insight. That could be an option for us where our vacuum pump sits at the sugar house and we run dry line to the woods....just need an extractor for here.

[BreezyHill]

MM, There is another important factor to this question that is needed. The number of taps that are going to each collection tank?
Are you running vacuum or just gravity?
What is your budget?


I am a an of ladders; but there is a point I learned this season that ladders will become not as affective and will need more attention than I have time for. I am in the process of designing a few solutions to the problems I have encountered and will let you know how they work as testing goes in the summer.

Our operation is a little different than most. Our farm has on site a commercial feed mill. Due to past issues and home land security at the level that it is today; our Operation is Home Land Security Registered. So we are forced to operate at a different standard than most as our operation has to be checked annually.

Thus we can not have un attended, unsecured containers on the farm. Thus we cant have collection tanks on the road side or in the woods. So our solution was to ladder the sap to the sugar house. The problem this season has been an odd temperature situation. The lowest point of collection is about 60 feet of elevation change and then there is 1200' of mains to get to that point. Thus we have about 112' of rise in eight ladders that range from 14' to 18' in height with the majority at 16'. We run high vacuum of 25-28+". Part of my security is noting the vac level and immediate finding the reason that it is below normal or out of range. We have had three deviations this season. #1 tree fall on line, #2 & 3 is a location that deer come thru and rub on the saddles. They remove the lines now that I am using max seal with screw kit locks.

I am looking at a secured pump station at the lowest site with a releaser and pressure pump that will run of one motor. So there are plenty of options for you to consider.

Get back with the answers to the two questions and we can address your options.

Ben

[upsmapleman]

I would save the hassle and just pump it. I pump mine 1500' with a deep well submersible pump. I have a 70' rise in elevation. I run a 10/2 with ground to run the pump. Have a float in tank which turns the pump on and off as needed. At end of day I pull pump, drain line back and haul that up. Mine is a 10 gallon a min pump but with the distance and rise I get about 7. On big run days I need to haul a little sap at peak run because it runs faster than it pumps. Will put a second tank there sometime to run it into when that happens.