Is there something wrong here?

[RobbieH]

Hi all. I have some tubes going from some taps right down into some 5 gallon buckets. There's some sap in the buckets, but not at all what I expected. This happens, I know. But here's the weird thing. I took one of the tubes off a tap, and sap started dripping out at a decent pace. I put the tube back on the tap and the dripping stops. Here's a pic of how it's set up. I even drilled a small, extra hole in the bucket cover to let air vent out as they fill with sap.

Did I do something wrong here? Is there something about pressure or something I'm missing? Why would the sap start coming out the moment I take a tube off the tap, but not when I put it back on? There's no leaks or blockage in the tubes.

I know they're working though as all the buckets have a little sap on the bottom,

[Ittiz]

Could it be that it's flowing but you can't see it? My spiles never look like that are "dripping" but looking in the tube going down you can see a thin ribbon of sap. It's not obvious that it's flowing.

[RobbieH]

I can see the taps right though the tubing and couldnt see any sap dripping out from the tap. Only when I took the tubing off of a tap that sap would start to drip out. Yet, the tubing does have sap trails in all of them, and theres some sap (about 2 inches of depth) on the bottom of the buckets. I have no doubt it's working. I guess I'm worried that somehow it works better without the tubes (like just hanging milk jugs like I did last year).

But if my set up looks fine, then I'll leave it and stop freaking out ;)

[NTBugtraq]

Robbie, you might consider putting another hole in the lid large enough to let the displaced air escape...kinda looks like you are hoping to pump into that pail without letting any of the air in the pail escape. To prevent the pail from getting rain water, put a hose on that outlet and hang it over the side of the pail towards the ground. Just imagine blowing air into a plastic bag...it can only get so full.

Do remember, sap comes out by pressure, the outlet must be at a lower pressure than the tap.

BTW, I've read that a tree should give you about 1 gallon a day per tap when sap is running. Do the math...that's about 1/2 a teaspoon per minute...not exactly a gush.

Cheers,
Russ

[TerryEspo]

Maybe don't snap the lid shut all the way around the 5 gallon pail.
I leave many of my 5 gallon lids kind of loose so I don't have to fight to remove them.
That way you don't have to drill any more holes and save your bucket.

Good luck

[NE PA Maple]

My buckets typically flow down the side of the tubing, you can't really see a drip at the tap in mine normally.

[NJG]

We run tubing into 4 gallon pails, similar to you. I agree that you do not want the bucket or pail air tight, but if the air inside the bucket can escape faster than the pressure builds from sap pressure, you are fine. When the sap runs, it runs. Other than small groups of taps on gravity tubing runs, I rarely see sap dripping with the set up that you have pictured. All of a sudden you open the lid and it's half full!

[NTBugtraq]

NJG, he's got some awesome maples with 3 taps in one tree and only one bucket for them...not something I have here...maybe if he had 3 buckets for that tree??

[PerryW]

Take a drinking straw and submerge it so the straw fills up with water then put your finger over the top of the straw and lift it out of the water. The water will stay in the straw, but as soon as you lift your finger off the tube the water will drip out.

there is nothing wrong. There is a partial vacuum holding the sap in the tube. When you pull the tubing off the tap, air enters the tube and allows the sap to run out.

[RobbieH]

Thank you all for the replies. I am starting to feel better about what I saw earlier. I have a small air hole in each lid to let air escape, but a larger one would be better. And what a great idea to put a small length of tubing in the air hole, hanging down to keep the rain out! Great point about how the sap is probably just trickling down the side of the tube, which is why I didn't see it dripping freely. Yes - I do have some awesome maples here. 140 acres of them, and this is only my second year doing this. Trust me, it'll grow into a bigger operation :)
I really hope to get more sap. Here in central N.Y., it went from freezing days to being very warm, with nothing in between. But the sap's gotta flow!
Hope you're all having a good season. Thanks again!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I used to use buckets like this. I found they did better by snapping lids all about 50% of the bucket and lifting up the lid on the other side and sliding the lines underneath the lid. This will solve your problem and also keep any water from running down the lines and into the bucket. Your holes must be too tight for water to even run through them but gases can't escape either.

[theguywiththename]

Before the other day my gravity line always puzzled me because it looked as if the lines were "frozen" but somehow sap would end up in my ibc. Yesterday I saw my natural vaccum work as bubbles slowly came in with sap.

[RobbieH]

Thanks again everyone. I made a second vent hole in each lid and put some tubing hanging over the side to keep the rain out. I also left part of the lid unsnapped, but should still keep out the rain. Got a great run yesterday. Not so great today. It was pretty warm. The temps should be going down below freezing at night for the next few nights ahead. Hopefully we'll get more sap runs this season.
But at least now I've got this tubing issue squared away. Thank you all.

[NTBugtraq]

Now I am prepared to be told I am completely wrong...but...the sap doesn't have to flow, at least it doesn't have to flow out of your spigot...

Sap is going to flow from roots to limbs to make buds, no doubt about it, but the trick is to create a difference in air pressure by your tap that the sap wants to come out your spigot rather than go up the rest of the tree. When the weather doesn't cooperate, this doesn't always happen. Think of it like pulling a plug in a bathtub...where else is the water going to go? But if you put 100 holes in the bottom of your tub, and tapped one of them, you aren't necessarily going to get much sap. And if your hole got plugged with nitre, you'd end up with none. Even if your tap was only slightly more resistant than the rest of the tree (say, because the outside air pressure was too high), your tap won't ever be taken by the sap.

Some local people who tap whom I've talked with are all talking about the price of syrup being higher this year, compared to last year, because there's a definite perception yield will be lower.

140 acres of 3 tap maples...dang it, if you can't do it consider a leasee...there's yearly income not being made there.

Cheers,
Russ