Establishing a gradient

[shiirooms]

Read some of the recent posts but none address my concern. Info:This is my first time at using a commercial arch with a divided pan. So far I've boiled off 60 gal of sap on a Sun Rise arch, 2x3 divided pan over wood heat. Stoking every 12 minutes and adding 2 gal of raw sap to the feed pan at the same time. Have a good boil in all three sections while maintaining a 2 inch sap level. The stack temps average 1100 from a cheap internal thermometer. Have yet to draw off any syrup, in fact have yet to get the temp at draw off above 214. At shut down because I've run out of sap, I stop off the holes between sections to try and keep any gradient. My question is how long should it take to get to the draw off temp of 218? Am I being impatient here? Am I dong something wrong? Any advise would be helpful.
DB

[wnybassman]

Running 2" in a 2x3 will require more than 60 gallons of sap to start drawing off. You should be noticing a color difference between the channels now though.

[Ausable]

This is where a syrup hydrometer is worth its weight in gold. If You have one - check your near syrup at your draw off point. You might be surprised how close you are.

[psparr]

Are you adding 2 gallons at a time every time you fire? That would probably mess up the gradient. You should find a way to add sap at the same rate as your boiling off. Also firing sooner. About every seven mins.

Depending on your sugar content you could easily have to boil plenty more before your ready to draw off.

Also using a defoamer will help keep your gradient. The foam will push syrup back through the pan.

Good luck.

[BnSmaple]

I just got my rig fired up and it took about 500 gal to get it sweet its a 4x12 raised flue

[shiirooms]

Yes I have a hydrometer and used it today about half way through the boil. The sap tasted sweet near the draw off, but the hydrometer did not start to float. Yes I am adding raw sap continuously from the preheater pan and I flow at a rate to maintain a 2 in level in the pan. At present I'm a little afraid to run any less until I get the hang of the new setup. I have some defoamer. I was just reading on another thread that one adds the defoamer to the flue pan, I assume that means adding it to the raw sap side in a 3 section divided pan? Sap should be running stronger this coming week with temp getting up to mid 30's. More sap means more boiling to figure things out.
DB

[psparr]

Yup, on the sap side. Put about a drop every time you fire. If you are getting bad foam in the syrup section then add two drops. But don't add it to the syrup section that will screw up gradient. Hope you get some sap.

[shiirooms]

Another thought, can I over power the gradient if you will, by adding to much raw sap. As I indicated, I am infusing about 2 gal every 12 min and maintaining a 2 in level across the pan. Would a hard rolling boil defuse the gradient between the 3 sections? If I remember my physics the gradient should not break down. But from all the input sofar, I have not boiled off enough sap to get the gradient established.
DB

[shiirooms]

Yup I have been putting a drop of defoamer in each section, when I start getting foam. Must have messed up the gradient good. Hope I can correct with the next boil and defuse the mistake by flushing the sections with addition of raw sap on the flue side.
DB

[psparr]

Be patient. It takes a while to get to syrup. When you do get to the point to draw. Check with your hydrometer and note the temp. Then your best bet with a small rig is to let the syrup drip so you can keep gradient while drawing off. You can draw off heavy and add sap to get back to syrup. Or finish on the stove later.

[wnybassman]

I completely loose my gradient between boils because I have no way to separate the channels, but it doesn't take too long for it to set back up again during the next boil.

[eustis22]

oh, thank god for this thread....I have the same pan, the same situation w/r/t drawing. Also, I get to glean from psparr some more :) So...I've boiled about 130 gallons so far, and yes I've defoamed the syrup channel not knowing it messes up the gradient...I also try to maintain 2" of depth but I'm not sure of my feed rate...my temp hasn't gotten above 214 and the hydrometer does not float. As near as I can tell, each channel is the same color. So now I'm wondering, where is my gradient? Did I say something wrong to offend it? Did I drop all this coin on a muckah big BATCH pan? Would THIS pope really sh*t in the woods?

No, ps, I've not added the baffle yet but I will tomorrow. I should have saturday but I got cold feet. :D

[psparr]

One thing you can do when your done boiling for the day. Take a cup or two of liquid from each channel. When you fire back up and its boiling, add the liquid back into the channels you took them out of.

[shiirooms]

With regards to blocking the channels between boils. Somewhere on Maple Trader I once read that at the end of cool down, block the holes between channels with a piece plate metal and a small clamp. Which is what I do. It seems to keep the majority of the gradient. A little leakage I'm sure. I bought a Sun Rise Arch at the end of last year and they cut round holes between channel. They offer food grade rubber stoppers on long handles. Kind of costly to purchase when the SS plate serves the same purpose and it was free too. A trick I used yesterday was to run some cold sap into raw sap channel rather slowly too. This seem to push the syrup gradient into the draw off side. It also helped cool down and brought my sap level up so I would not evaporate away, even though no fire in the box. The hot brick really keep the sap hot for along time. Note, I did not add the cold sap until 3 hours after I shut down. The pan was down from 2in to about an 1in and trickled in about 2 gal of sap. The next boil will determine if this idea has merit.
DB

[Sugarmaker]

Ok,
i dont think you have done anything wrong starting up a new evaporator with raw sap takes some patience! Our 3 x 10 takes about 300 gallons of sap before we draw off the first syrup. Also a drop of defoamer near the draw off port should not affect the gradient. in fact it might help only add a drop about every other time you fire. Or as needed if it really foams up. This is a very small rig and doesnt have many compartments to form much gradient distinction. post some pictures while at full boil of the pans. That may help. I think the next time you have sap you will make syrup.
Regards,
Chris

[lpakiz]

Saturday our 2 X 10 took about 325 gallons to draw syrup, and took 3 hours 15 minutes of hard boiling to get there.

[shiirooms]

Sounds like I have to be a bit more patient. The weather finally broke here in NE Wisconsin. Today the 28th, temps in mid 30's with projections of near 50's over weekend. Sap should really run. Then down to the high 20's again. Should be able to boil off a respectable volume of sap to establish a gradient.
DB